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Just now, Azrael said:

1-0 United. Fernades penalty. 

 

Dodgy penalty after the final whistle. Misses but he scores the retake after Allison is half a mil off his line.

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6 minutes ago, CheekyLee said:

That being said, we should have had at least 1 penalty. Nobody can convince me that Mane didn't get fouled once all night, that's something like the last 3 or 4 games where ref's have given him nothing at all.

 

Only the big clubs get penalties like that.

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5 minutes ago, glb said:


Hark at Captain Moneybags over here ;)

 

It’ll no doubt be a turgid 0-0 because it often is.

I wasn't gonna put a fiver on just to win a fiver. I needed something worthwhile!

 

(Besides, I had free bets)

 

I'd be happy with 0-0 at Anfield.

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So glad I didn't bother to watch that. The poor form is a concern, but worse is that Klopp doesn't appear to have any answers right now. We've been really lacking in attack across 4 out of the last 5 matches now (and Fulham, West Brom and Newcastle were all points in the bag on paper) and nothing has changed.

 

United will love to play on the counter against whatever makeshift defence we put out with the pace they have and, in Fernandes, they have an actual proper creative talent who can change matches. I'd actually take a draw right now just to protect that impressive home record! 

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5 minutes ago, tbb said:

I wasn't gonna put a fiver on just to win a fiver. I needed something worthwhile!

 

(Besides, I had free bets)

 

I'd be happy with 0-0 at Anfield.


I know, I was actually going to delete my comment because it was childish even meant as a cheap joke.

 

Think if Man United show ambition you’ll have a field day. We’re on an awful run of form, and look fatigued. Nothing on the bench to change things either, or help from our support.

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Yeah, Anfield without a crowd vs Man Utd is not going to help the team. They'll raise their game (like vs Tottenham) but I think they are going to end up short this time.

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More importantly than anything, we were not enjoyable to watch tonight and the players didn't look like they were enjoying it either. Every time that there was an opportunity to up the pace in the final third, we slowed it down. We are a much better side when we are the ones injecting tempo in to the match. I really think the Villa loss is still fresh in the memory as we seem more concerned about slipping up defensively than creating chances.

 

At the end of a performance like this from Southampton it is normal to priase the keeper and the commentary team did...but that really wasn't the story of the match at all. We didn't create chances to test the keeper and in reality he had little to do today.

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Think Jota’s injury will prove (is proving) far more damaging than Van Dijk’s. He was on such a run of form, versus Van Dijk who actually looked a little off-form before his injury.

 

Without Jota there’s no threat to the front three’s places at the minute. Firmino and Salah looked woeful tonight, but there was no danger of either coming off.

 

Thaigo had an off-night too, looking a little sloppy at times. But think that’ll be a blip given he’s world class and only played four times this season. He at least will offer more creativity from midfield but needs the front three to be firing to make the most of his vision.

 

Also, just because it doesn’t get said enough when ‘big’ sides lose, credit to Southampton. Liverpool were poor, but Saints also played well. So happy for them that they didn’t bin Hasenhuettl after the defeat against Leicester last season and wobbles afterwards.

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Yeah, Saints controlled the game and never looked threatened despite us having so much of the ball. They kept us at arms length and the odd time we did breach they were ion position to block. Deserved that.

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1 hour ago, glb said:

Think Jota’s injury will prove (is proving) far more damaging than Van Dijk’s. He was on such a run of form, versus Van Dijk who actually looked a little off-form before his injury.

I agree, I've been saying since football restarted in the Summer that Van Dijk looked off the pace and had more mistakes leading to goals in the remaining games of last season than the rest of his time with us put together. Losing Jota when he was on such a rich vein of form was a big blow and his creativity and spark could well have made a difference in these games.

 

Roll on the FA Cup!

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8 hours ago, Azrael said:

1-0 United. Fernandes penalty. 

 

Fernandes will do the shit little jump-and-spring before shooting, accidentally kick his own calf and tumble over the ball. Liverpool will score from the counter. 

And we will win!

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10 hours ago, Gabe said:

I agree, I've been saying since football restarted in the Summer that Van Dijk looked off the pace and had more mistakes leading to goals in the remaining games of last season than the rest of his time with us put together. Losing Jota when he was on such a rich vein of form was a big blow and his creativity and spark could well have made a difference in these games.

 

Roll on the FA Cup!

I think both injuries are very key to all this.  Yes, Van Dijk was off the boil before his injury but that doesn't mean he would have continued that right up until now.  Look at the goals we've conceded recently, lacking a proper centre half organising the defensive back line. 

As well as that, we have stopped scoring, and definitely Jota was on fire and we could really do with him now.  I actually feel Klopps last 2 lines ups have been very odd. Phillips and Williams have done well, but neither played last night.  2 midfielders played there instead.  Henderson is needed in the midfield. Making so many changes was a strange one for one match.

Milner and Henderson both in midfield against Newcastle, again a strange one. 

 

We are in a slump, ever since a crazy win against Palace.  We will get out of it, I think the break to the Man U match will do us good and we will come back stronger.  We are the Champions, it's just time to step up and play like them! 

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10 hours ago, Gabe said:

I agree, I've been saying since football restarted in the Summer that Van Dijk looked off the pace and had more mistakes leading to goals in the remaining games of last season than the rest of his time with us put together. Losing Jota when he was on such a rich vein of form was a big blow and his creativity and spark could well have made a difference in these games.

 

Roll on the FA Cup!


Hopefully Jota’s return will be end of January, especially with the Man City game, then Champions League starting up again in February. Sure he’ll play from the bench for a few weeks, but even that could be huge.

 

Don’t know what team will get picked on Friday against Villa. Hopefully as many first team players as possible rested. Not arsed about the FA Cup most seasons but especially not this one. Only real benefit is it can give some fringe/returning players some match fitness.

 

Anyone think a new CB will arrive? We’re hardly rolling in cash so doubt anyone major will sign. Could take a few months to settle in anyway, which makes me think Klopp will just persist with rotating Williams, Phillips and Henderson in a back four until Matip returns, hopefully at the end of the month. Albeit for the two games before he’s injured again.

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To me, Henderson shouldn't be in the mix when it comes to the defence.  Only if we didn't have Fabinho would I think he should possibly be there. Phillips and Williams have done nothing wrong.

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@glb We clearly need a CB if the two youngsters we have are overlooked in favour of Henderson, but I'm not sure it'll happen. Who is there that is a) available, b) cheap & c) good enough to be more than a bit-part player?

 

@Chewylegs It's odd, isn't it? Regardless of the reason, it's not good to keep rotating the CBs, that's the one area of the pitch you really need that stability and understanding to develop and the team aren't getting that. Either give Phillips or Williams a run and take whatever happens, or buy somebody who will be a certain starter.

 

Hopefully Thiago can stay fit and provide a creative spark in the middle, because currently the front-3 just aren't firing and there's nobody to replace them with, as Shaqiri and Origi aren't the answer to any particular question (other than "Who is hoovering up wages far beyond their contribution to the team?") Form is temporary and class is permanent and all that, sadly I don't think a tough away game at Villa is going to help in that regard, and another defeat will be bad for morale and prep for the Man U game. Perhaps we just need a flukey win to get going again?

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Very odd Gabe.  I'd go with what you said, pick Phillips or Williams.  I understand Klopp said that if he did that then one or the other wouldn't play for weeks on end, which I can sort of understand from a development point of view, but putting Henderson in there was one of the oddest decisions I've seen him make.

 

Sadly Origi and Shaq aren't good enough anymore for this side.

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I think Shaq is good enough technique-wise but he is either injured or out too long to get any rhythm in the side. Why Minamino hasn’t featured since the Palace game is anyone’s guess. He was bright in that game and surely deserving of more minutes than he’s played.

 

Agree on the CB. Henderson shouldn’t be there, yet has played a game and a half in defence. Signing someone looks like the obvious solution but unless they’ve played in the Premier League before not sure they’d even figure against Man United anyway, so that game will be another makeshift backline.

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26 minutes ago, Chewylegs said:

I understand Klopp said that if he did that then one or the other wouldn't play for weeks on end, which I can sort of understand from a development point of view

Which would be fine, if either of them were playing - but they aren't! I mean as much as you could say TAA was at fault for the goal, wasn't Henderson playing everyone onside at the free-kick? Had he been in line it would've been chalked-off I think.

 

As for Shaqiri, I was really excited when he came to the Premier League all those years ago with Stoke because he was a fantastic talent. Lack of games since those heady days and probably being played in a more conservative fashion than he would like has meant it's never really happened for him, which is a real shame as he is technically excellent. Other than those couple of goals against Man Utd I can't think of any impact he's had - though I seem to have a very hazy memory of him making a costly mistake leading to a goal in a match? Am I imagining that?

 

@glb Agree on Minamino too and he's of an age where he needs to be playing regularly, but I can't see Firmino being given a break even though he could probably use one. I wonder if the Ox will ever get a run of games to find some form again, too? (I know he didn't play well yesterday).

 

It was unrealistic to expect this side to continue to perform like they have for the past two and a half years (hence why I bored everybody by saying every transfer window since the Summer of 2019 that we needed to build some depth) so this isn't totally unexpected and we are still (temporarily) top, after all - but I think there's a danger the wheels could come off by the end of the month if Klopp isn't careful and nothing in the past 3 games has shown an improvement is coming.

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13 minutes ago, Gabe said:

Which would be fine, if either of them were playing - but they aren't! I mean as much as you could say TAA was at fault for the goal, wasn't Henderson playing everyone onside at the free-kick? Had he been in line it would've been chalked-off I think.

Which is why I said .....but putting Henderson in there was one of the oddest decisions I've seen him make.:lol::quote:

13 minutes ago, Gabe said:

 

@glb

 

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10 minutes ago, Chewylegs said:

Which is why I said .....but putting Henderson in there was one of the oddest decisions I've seen him make.

I don’t see it as being that odd, really. The rationale is obvious, Southampton’s pressing last night was excellent. They hounded our back line for the whole ninety minutes and made it really difficult to play out from the back. Even Thiago looked harassed at times.

 

And whilst neither Phillips or Williams have done anything wrong, neither of them have looked as comfortable as our regular centre backs at taking the ball forward, quickly into midfield. It’s something that Gomez doesn’t get enough credit for, because both him and Van Dijk are superb at it.

 

If of the new guys had played last night, the risk is that Southampton would have targeted them relentlessly, resulting in a potentially awful, confidence shattering game for the youngsters.

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That could be the same for a lot of games in the premier league though. It's not just Southampton that press. Also, with a stronger midfield with our captain in it, that could have helped.  Quite a lot of the time Hendo drops back to pick the ball up.  Fabinho is also excellent at distribution.  

 

Stating that he doesn't want to play only one of the new kids over the other then playing a midfielder instead, is odd. 

 

We lost as well, had most of the possession, so it didn't work.

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I think if I’m allowed one criticism of Klopp over his time at Liverpool, it’s that he likes being the underdog. He doesn’t like the idea of being Bayern or City or Barcelona like Pep, he likes being the role of challenger who wins despite maybe only being second best on paper. (I’m not claiming we’re underdogs, but we’re not billy big bollocks Harlem Globetrotters either). 
 

I don’t think he has much interest in spending big on superstars to make us world-beaters, he’d rather continue to grow us organically. I think this is best for the long term and fits very nicely with FSG’s ideas in a way that maybe other managers didn’t. It does mean, however, that we maintain a lean squad of over-performers rather than the array of stars we could maybe afford to call upon now.
 

It’s very mildly frustrating at times like this. 

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14 minutes ago, DukeOfEarlsfield said:

I don’t see it as being that odd, really. The rationale is obvious, Southampton’s pressing last night was excellent. They hounded our back line for the whole ninety minutes and made it really difficult to play out from the back. Even Thiago looked harassed at times.

 

And whilst neither Phillips or Williams have done anything wrong, neither of them have looked as comfortable as our regular centre backs at taking the ball forward, quickly into midfield. It’s something that Gomez doesn’t get enough credit for, because both him and Van Dijk are superb at it.

 

If of the new guys had played last night, the risk is that Southampton would have targeted them relentlessly, resulting in a potentially awful, confidence shattering game for the youngsters.

That doesn't really make a great deal of sense, because when Henderson is in midfield he drops back not only to pick up the ball, but also to fill-in for whichever full-back is pushing forward. That also makes him available for a short-ball for whichever CBs are playing, allowing him to play out from there. Having him as a CB not only compromised the defence versus a dedicated player in that position, it also neutered the midfield because it left us weaker there and increased the press on Thiago.

 

And, as the goal showed, not being a defender, he played everybody onside. TAA should've done better, obviously, but a proper line there means Ings doesn't even get the chance. You could argue that we only conceded one goal so perhaps it wasn't too bad a decision, but that ignores the fact that we then had to chase the game against a team very comfortable defending plus without one of our main midfielders to build up play. It was just a poor decision and it did directly cost us.

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15 minutes ago, Gabe said:

That doesn't really make a great deal of sense, because when Henderson is in midfield he drops back not only to pick up the ball, but also to fill-in for whichever full-back is pushing forward. That also makes him available for a short-ball for whichever CBs are playing, allowing him to play out from there. Having him as a CB not only compromised the defence versus a dedicated player in that position, it also neutered the midfield because it left us weaker there and increased the press on Thiago.

I’m not saying that it didn’t have knock on effects, just that the argument against playing the new guys in that game is an obvious one. Philips, in particular, would have been hopelessly out of his depth.

 

And playing Thiago, the guy we’ve all been drooling over for the last few months, in Henderson’s role is hardly some massive risk. He’s one of the best midfielders in the world. He should be equal to the task.

 

I’m not saying the gamble worked, it clearly didn’t, but taking the decision the other way could easily have resulted in us having a conversation that Williams is too young and inexperienced after making several costly mistakes.

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  • glb changed the title to Liverpool Football Club Thread - Home of the Curlett Cup Winners

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