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Championship Soccer


SomeNaiveChump
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oh, and N64 ISS resembles ISS Deluxe in about 15 million times more was than ISS Pro does.

further evidence can be found on the GBA, where you can buy ISS or Winning Eleven, and the ISS game is ISS Deluxe.

That's hardly further evidence. Just a re-release of an existing game.

...as an entirely separate entity to the GBA Winning Eleven games.

if you haven't played N64 ISS, then that explains your position really ;)

it's clearly by the same developer as ISS Deluxe.

Are the GBA versions any good?

the two WE games are excellent - one J.Leagu version and a World Soccer version - one is slightly better than the other, and I forget which is better, so download them and have a go.

the better one has different hair colours etc; the other one everyone looks the same, that's the easiest way to tell the newer version.

ISS is poo, the camera on the GBA is far too zoomed in to be playable.

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SOMEONE NEEDS TO TELL CAMPBELL THAT SAYING 'TRUTH' IN CAPS DOESN'T MAKE THINGS TRUE OR HIM ANY MORE CREDIBLE.

WHOOPS, caps.

Seriously, I LOVE his arguements for why these games are rubbish. It's a goldmine of fun!

October 1991 – Kick Off 2 has by this time fallen to No.81 in the Amiga charts. By February 1992, 18 months after release, it has disappeared from the top 100 altogether

18 months in the top hundred? That's good going, I would have thought!

December 1992 – Amiga Power publishes its first Readers’ All-Time Top 100. ...Kick Off 2 appears in the list at No.8.

So the readers are obviously stupid.

May 1993 – Amiga Power publishes its third All-Time Top 100. With the disappearance from the judging panel of original editor and KO fan Matt Bielby, neither Kick Off game is included, and Sensible Soccer debuts at No.1.

So matt Bielby was obviously biased AND stupid.

he's also very modest about the games he worked on:

December 1994 - Two and a half years from release, Sensible Soccer, in its very slightly modified International incarnation, is still at No.5 when the true sequel, Sensible World Of Soccer, is released to universal ecstatic acclaim (average magazine review score 94%) and crashes straight into the charts at No.1.

I'm starting to agree with those people who say the world would be a duller place without him - just for different reasons.

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Ah, this is beautiful.

He doesn't know when he's beat, does he?

Stuart's definitive, unbiased (heh) take on the whole kick off versus sensi debate.

http://ds.dial.pipex.com/thumbs.aloft/wos/koff.htm

Pardon my ignorance, but where are the inaccuracies in Stuart's Microprose Soccer vs Kick Off vs Sensi account?

Who said anything about inaccuracies? I'm just amazed he bothered writing so much in the first place! he never liked being wrong, did our stuart.

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Ah, this is beautiful.

He doesn't know when he's beat, does he?

Stuart's definitive, unbiased (heh) take on the whole kick off versus sensi debate.

http://ds.dial.pipex.com/thumbs.aloft/wos/koff.htm

Pardon my ignorance, but where are the inaccuracies in Stuart's Microprose Soccer vs Kick Off vs Sensi account?

Who said anything about inaccuracies? I'm just amazed he bothered writing so much in the first place! he never liked being wrong, did our stuart.

You sure do spend a lot of time reading his website.

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There may be at least one small inaccuracy in Stu's account. My memory tells me that the original KO did not feature aftertouch, and this was added in the expansion disk KO: Extra Time. Glad I got that off my chest. *edit* later iterations of KO didn't feature generic players: they seemed to have different stats to me.

I suspect Stuart may be right about this:

The harsh fact is, Kick Off was popular at a time when there were no other halfway-competent football games around. When Sensible Soccer was released, it was accepted as clearly superior by the vast majority of gamers, and Kick Off’s popularity simply melted away

I'd moved on from Amiga games by the time Sensible Soccer came out, but certainly the unbiased sample of opinion on this forum seems to suggests that SWOS is the reigning king of Amiga football games, and some of the things Stu hated about KO now date KO enormously, even to a KO lover like myself.

But I don't think that the chart performance of Goal! or the fact theat KO2 eventually dropped out of the charts has much to say about the quality of the KO games during the KO glory days. It remains my most played all-time game (and the only one I have ever won money at, so that makes it the only game in history I could ever claim to be good at) even if I wouldn't go near it now.

Stuart's being a bit disingenuous to suggest he didn't campaign against KO2. Until the Edge forum, the only thing I remembered about him was his hatred for KO2. But it was perfectly reasonable to treat KO2 as the Emporer's new clothes back then, when everywhere else was such a KO2 love-in. KO2 was *the* game for so many of us Amiga gamers, was always played at disk copying piracy meets, and it did have all the flaws he outlined, even though they didn't matter at all to us. But it was fair enough to warn newbies about spending £25 on such an acquired taste, as it was a taste that was best to acquire by working your way through the myriad of KO releases since the very first one.

It's a shame Dino took it all so personally, but we know better than any other group of people how Stuart's style can piss people off. As it doesn't look like Dino's done much since to match his KO achievement, I guess that explains why he'd be so thin skinned about his legacy. Still Dino, I tip my hat to you. Sorry I never paid for your games. I'll buy you a drink or something.

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Greatest thing about KO2 was the ability to import tactics from Player Manager (which still has the best tactics editor of any footy game.) This kept the game alive long after it's shelf life if you also had friends who created their own tactics.

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It was similar to the old Champ Manager editor where you had 12 segments. You could place your players anywhere on the pitch when the ball was in that segment. It had both defending and attacking options. It worked beautifully in KO2 because the pitch was vast and you could really see the tactics come alive. If you made the players cover too much ground going forward then they would get left behind in a counter attack. I always felt that the Sensi pitch was too small for anything exciting to happen. Same old goals, same old gameplan.

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I always felt that the Sensi pitch was too small

so it's not just me! I told Stu this the other day and he didn't really get it. <_<

the AOCS pitch is bigger relative to the player size, and the players are slower -> more strategic and more varied.

what's the best way (version) to play SWOS on XP? Links please.

with WinUAE and Amiga SWOS 95-96 or 96-97. I don't have links to hand, but search for WinUAE and you won't go far wrong.

if you want to mess with the data files, you'll want to search for Pablo Fridlender to get his editor, and find some adf utilities for injecting the edited files into the adf image.

the DOS version of SWOS 95-96 DOES work in WinXP but without sound (on my machine anyway). this is unexpected as it is, most DOS games (CM2 :D ) don't work at all.

Is the megadrive version any good? I'd like to have a go on Xbox and my amiga emu seems a bit dodgy.

it's a *reasonable* port of vanilla Sensible Soccer, and there is an International Edition with real world cup 94 teams :o but it isn't SWOS.

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I liked Sensible Soccer a lot but, before that, I bought my Amiga specifically to play Kick Off 2, so Dino's game means more to me.

Having said that, I later bought Kick Off 2 for PC which was - and still is - the worst game I've ever paid money for it. Complete bag of shite it was.

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