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The Trouble with Nintendo. A TL;DR topic.


Transient Curse
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Two people were *caught* doing it. If it's possible, they have no way of knowing how many other cases were happening.

I don't think it's draconian or prudish for a company to stop a service which is being used to target children in this way. It would, perhaps, be much more irresponsible and blinkered to let it continue. If it stops even one child being targetted and abused then it's worth it surely.

You could say that about anything internet related. Imagine if every company with an online service did what Nintendo did - there'd be no social network sites, no forums, it'll just be storefronts for supermarkets.

Like you mentioned earlier, Miiverse is surely (hopefully) coming soon anyway.

Does that mean replacing/integrating with Mii Plaza?

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Two people were *caught* doing it. If it's possible, they have no way of knowing how many other cases were happening.

I don't think it's draconian or prudish for a company to stop a service which is being used to target children in this way. It would, perhaps, be much more irresponsible and blinkered to let it continue. If it stops even one child being targetted and abused then it's worth it surely.

They may well bring it back when the holes have been plugged - but I don't think it's right to argue they should just have let it continue in the meantime.

Whoever was at fault - the parents, society, the sickos - Nintendo have swiftly stopped their device being an enabler. Picking that out as anything other than a good thing is a little short-sighted and selfish IMO.

It's only a matter of time until vocal cords are outlawed.

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You could say that about anything internet related. Imagine if every company with an online service did what Nintendo did - there'd be no social network sites, no forums, it'll just be storefronts for supermarkets.

Look, you can hardly expect Rgraves to criticise Nintendo, he'd have a brain aneurism.

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Or you know, have robust online systems to start like pretty much any other big company in the tech sphere, instead of flailing about like a pensioner who's just been bought their first laptop by relatives.

Apple get more than their fair share of glum family in the Daily Mail stories, but they don't shut down iCloud because of it though.

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Jesus, could you imagine the outcry if a kid was fiddled with as a result of playing Nintendo.

"I thought little Johnny was safe on his Nintendo, but now I'm not sure. Let's not get another one."

It would completely destroy a massive part of their market. They couldn't risk that just now.

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"Listen lads. We tried this internet thing. It's not working. How about sending a proper letter once in a while? What's wrong with the good old ways? We will of course not change our splendid and high value eShop offerings, some of which generously allow you to purchase very old games for much money"

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Apple don't though... That's the thing.

Nintendo have a family friendly brand to protect.

I agree Scott, I do. Hell I think most of us here do. But there are other ways to do it other than effectively throwing your toys out of the pram each time something like this crops up.

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While we're on the subject of Nintendo not really understanding this new-fangled internet thingie.

Nintendo president Satoru Iwata has explained why its digital games are not less expensive than their boxed counterparts, which must be manufactured on discs and shipped to retailers.


"Although the mainstream idea regarding the digital business in the industry before we actually started selling software in both digital and packaged formats last year was that the digital version should or must be priced lower than its packaged counterpart, we decided that, since the contents are the same, the company would offer the software at the same price, be it the packaged version or the digital version," Iwata said during a recent investor Q&A session.

Iwata explained that this price parity is the result of Nintendo wanting to make sure the company's software, released digitally, is not devalued compared to the boxed product.

"This is because we want consumers to value software as highly as possible and because we have been trying to heighten the value of our software whenever we produce it," he said.

Iwata said prospective consumers can "easily" expect games from major franchises like Super Mario and Pokemon will be "worth the price," even before they start playing. As an example, Iwata said games like Luigi's Mansion: Dark Moon, Monster Hunter 4, and Pokemon X/Y have all shown "strong" sales across the physical and digital versions.

"Which shows that there are a number of people who believe that digital content holds the same value as its packaged counterpart," he said.

What's more, once consumers purchase one digital title, they are likely to purchase another, Iwata argued, citing internal data to back up his claim.

"In addition, we have already found that once consumers have made a digital download purchase, many of them tend to make another one," he said. "They notice such conveniences as the ability to always carry around the games and not having to worry about losing the physical game cards."

However, Iwata explained that Nintendo is open to lower price points for digital games if the game in question is a new IP or a franchise with well-known characters, but new gameplay features. For these games that players are not already familiar with, it can be hard from them to "anticipate and appreciate" the value before purchasing," he said.

"For these titles, if we take the ordinary approach of selling the packaged software, the software might not reach its full sales potential, and even when we are able to create something interesting, the games often can just fade away without being noticed by consumers," Iwata said.

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Yeah ... well done on making a non-point, Harsin. :rolleyes: Their prices are in line with the industry standard perception of pricing on digital products. Don't try & make out they're an archaic & out of date company by ignoring actual facts, do you work for the Daily Mail?

There might be sales prices from time to time but realistically games on all digital platforms are excessively priced in line with MRP and yes, even older games are highly priced against consumer expectation. Cases in point: KOTOR £6.99 (Steam, 10 years old), Half Life £5.99 (Steam, 15 years old), Resident Evil £7.99 (PSN, 15 years old), Final Fantasy 7 £7.99 (PSN,16 years old), Halo 1 £6.75 (XBL, 11 years old).

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Look, you can hardly expect Rgraves to criticise Nintendo, he'd have a brain aneurism.

Do fuck off Smitty.

Look, to all the people going - well you might as well shut down the internet - two things. One, Nintendo don't own the internet - people being groomed on the internet is not going to be laid at their door as something they could have stopped. Two, they shut down a very specific service that they see as having issues. They have not shut down all their services - they clearly see the more moderated stuff like MiiVerse as being the way forward here.

I know it's cool to say Nintendo are behind the times with this stuff, and in many areas they clearly are, but MiiVerse is actually a very nicely implemented social feature which Nintendo feels offers the interaction they know we all want, alongside the safety nets they want to protect their business with.

If Nintendo had shut every possible online interaction down I could see the point of the outcry, but they didn't. They shut down one service that was absolutely and definitely being used to actively target kids for abuse. I find it incredible and amazing that anyone could argue that's not a good thing. Like somehow being able to send pictures of cocks to your friends is more important than stopping even a single case of child abuse.

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I think the difference is both other consoles don't carry on selling their launch title stuff at full price, and also don't charge higher then physical retail RRP day one. Unless your telling me the RRP is £50 too.

Crazy Nintendo.

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They shut down one service that was absolutely and definitely being used to actively target kids for abuse. I find it incredible and amazing that anyone could argue that's not a good thing.

Go on then, tell us the argument that shutting down anything used to target kids cannot be argued against. It's a hell of a step backwards to just shut down everything and attacking the wrong target. It's the same kind of bollocks that gets men seen as possible nonces if they're within sight of kids, sometimes even their own kids.

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All of which really has nothing at all to do with the lack of success of the wii u (people don't want the gamepad, the games are 95% rehashes, the poor/non-existant third party support and it almost competes directly with Nintendo's very own 3DS) or the slightly declining success of the 3DS (nobody wanted 3D and mobile gaming has been nibbling away at the edges).

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I think the difference is both other consoles don't carry on selling their launch title stuff at full price, and also don't charge higher then physical retail RRP day one. Unless your telling me the RRP is £50 too.

Crazy Nintendo.

They pretty much all charge higher than you can buy at retail, which would be the RRP. Look at the price of any CoD/EA Sports games on the various download stores. CoD Ghosts is £49.99.

Nintendo have also been pretty progressive with eShop versions of first party games in other ways - the various sales where buying a number of games gets you another for free, giving people who buy a game a free copy to give to a friend, the Pikmin 3/W101 discount. Game also usually have the download codes for first party games for less than the eShop.

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Go on then, tell us the argument that shutting down anything used to target kids cannot be argued against. It's a hell of a step backwards to just shut down everything and attacking the wrong target. It's the same kind of bollocks that gets men seen as possible nonces if they're within sight of kids, sometimes even their own kids.

But they didn't shut down everything - they left lots of their other onlines services up and running. They haven't 'shut down the internet', they shut down a specific service which was undeniably, absolutely, being used to target children for abuse.

Would you rather they have left it running - do you honestly not care if more kids were potentially being targetted for abuse just as long as you're not being impacted directly.

Nintendo have a family image to maintain, they could not have been seen to have taken anything other than swift, decisive action. The outcry if they'd let the service continue and further cases had been uncovered would have been significant for their business.

Chill people, they just shut down a note and picture swapping service on a games device. They haven't violated your civil liberties.

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I'd rather they shut it down temporarily while they work out some sort of modification which at least makes it seem they have taken sufficient action to make it harder for these sorts of incidents to happen again.

Are there any examples of this sort of thing happening before? There surely must be some precedent for a small number of isolated cases of grooming/indecent material sharing with minors happening on an application and then some action being taken.

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How do we know it's not temporary - as I already said, I honestly think this is just a non-issue for them since they're expecting it to be replaced by a 3DS version of MiiVerse sometime in the future anyway.

And what alternatives have people posted - they should do an update? Well sure, they could well be working on one - but are you suggesting they just leave the service up 'as is' in the meantime? For their business, another case cropping up if they did that could be incredibly damaging.

I honestly agree that the parents should take a great deal of responsibility for what their children get up to, that the controls are in place for them to stop it already really - but that's clearly not happening. Some parents either don't care enough about the dangetrs, or don't have the understanding of how to make it safe for their kids, or perhaps a million other things. Nintendo wants to be a company that those kinds of folks can feel the 'safest' with. Not totally safe as that's impossible, but 'safest'. Like 'I can let my kids play Nintendo because I know it's pretty safe and they do some of the worrying on my behalf for me'. Lazy parenting perhaps yes, but we all know it happens.

Obviously I know there are thousands of ways that people could target kids, and shutting them all down would be impossible and over the top. But swapnote? Come on now, it's not that important a loss to make a big statement of intent with and Nintendo know it.

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That's incredibly manipulative rgraves - if you don't agree with this you're facilitating paedos. It's not like other people haven't posted alternatives that keep the service and allow it more security.

All the suggestions I've seen in this thread are things that are already in place, as far as I can see.

How do we know it's not temporary - as I already said, I honestly think this is just a non-issue for them since they're expecting it to be replaced by a 3DS version of MiiVerse sometime in the future anyway.

It would have been prudent for Nintendo to say that they were temporarily withdrawing the service while they consider what to do about its misuse, if this was the case.

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Maybe they should have just shut it down in Japan, where the specific cases of abuse were happening.

It's a culture where children generally don't have access to the internet, but since Nintendo's service is effectively the only way of doing so for the age group in the country, then they are in some sense the only gatekeepers of access to the internet for that demographic.

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I think it's fine for Nintendo to think about their image, but you've basically stated anything which can be used to groom children should be shut down.

No, I've said it's a decision for each of the businesses that run those services to make taking into account all the possible consequences of that decision.
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