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The Trouble with Nintendo. A TL;DR topic.


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Wait a tick... So let me get this right.

There is a door, in Super Metroid, where if you fire 1 missile at it, it does nothing. When you fire 2 at it, nothing, 3, nothing. 4, nothing. 5, it opens?!?!

Fuck me, glad I've never bought a copy. That is atrocious design.

The game starts off (not including the prelude) with a few (illusionary) branching paths, but ultimately there is only one way you can go (and you are generally guided towards it), which ends you up at the morph ball power-up. Not long after, you're again guided towards a room with the missile power-up, which locks you in with a sub-boss, who upon defeat reveals a door that can only be destroyed by the said missile pick-up.

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It would be nice, considering all this projected growth, if they would stop closing all the developers down all the time! Or, better yet, stop working on these ridiculous and impossible "projected" figures and base things on real measurable actual data instead?

Re: Super Metroid

To be absolutely fair, the information about red doors requiring 5 missiles is in the manual. The manual that can not be directly accessed from within the game. What you need to do is to press the Home button on the gamepad, and select the manual option from there. Admittedly, this is true for all Wii U games, but the Virtual Console titles also have their own seperate menu, which is accessed by pressing the ZR trigger. There are 4 tiles on show, one of which does nothing at all when you highlight it or press it. Why on earth is the game manual not put there?

I'll hold my hand up on this one. I did not RTFM. I didn't really feel the need to. But I still find myself sympathising with everyone who has managed to get stuck at that point. It is not just entirely possible to get there without the required means to get out, it is in fact probable. If you get to a red door without 5 missiles, you don't get to open it. Not to mention the outright stupidity of making people press the "Open the damn door" button 5 times anyway. It is a small mercy, then, that the doors turn into normal ones once they have been opened.

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Most of that growth was due to the Wii though. PS3 and 360 combined haven't really grown over combined totals of PS2 + Xbox and the Wii U isn't duplicating previous success.

I suppose software wise they're bringing current growth segments in through the adoption of Steam/F2P/PC download stuff (plus DLC out the wazoo) so that'll grow, but that's more about getting more money out of existing users than growing the number of users.

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To be absolutely fair, the information about red doors requiring 5 missiles is in the manual.

It doesn’t matter one whit. The game gives you enough information to pass the first few tests to understand how to traverse the game world. It doesn’t give you all the information, and what it given to you is told implicitly, which should lead the player to experiment with what they have at their disposal.

It’s not unreasonable to ask for help at such an early section. What is unreasonable is to expect the game to give you the answers as soon as you are stuck. And I think it’s very sad that many developers these days bend over backwards to deliver on such expectations.

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That's one of the game's rules: you need five missiles to open pink doors. It's arbitrary, but not illogical. And pink doors show signs of opening after a missile is shot at it. If you don't notice, you're not looking closely.

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Most of that growth was due to the Wii though. PS3 and 360 combined haven't really grown over combined totals of PS2 + Xbox and the Wii U isn't duplicating previous success.

I suppose software wise they're bringing current growth segments in through the adoption of Steam/F2P/PC download stuff (plus DLC out the wazoo) so that'll grow, but that's more about getting more money out of existing users than growing the number of users.

True enough complaint about the Microsoft stuff, but you'll notice that Ubisoft only talk about their target userbase, Xbox and PlayStation owners. 60% revenue growth, prices went up by 20% in comparison. So from a making money POV, it certainly isn't out of the realm of possibility to be doing fine going forward. Less people sharing a static/shrinking pie still means the survivors will do alright.

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Poor Dave.

I haven't played Super Metroid in years so barely remembered anything, but hitting a pink door with a missile at the very least gave visual feedback, so I hit it 3 more times. Nothing.

I went back through the possible corridors I could, checking theres not really anywhere else to go, and figured, yup, I probably need to hit it with exactly 5.

I'm not saying I'm smarter then Dave, but you can certainly argue you can continue trying with the options laid down for you in game. Ala, missiles and pink doors. It's not rocket science, it's all you have in-game at the present time.

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Poor Dave.

I haven't played Super Metroid in years so barely remembered anything, but hitting a pink door with a missile at the very least gave visual feedback, so I hit it 3 more times. Nothing.

I went back through the possible corridors I could, checking theres not really anywhere else to go, and figured, yup, I probably need to hit it with exactly 5.

I'm not saying I'm smarter then Dave, but you can certainly argue you can continue trying with the options laid down for you in game. Ala, missiles and pink doors. It's not rocket science, it's all you have in-game at the present time.

Perhaps it's an olden days things. Perhaps back in the day lots of games did this illogical thing so you were kinda used to it. Because I wouldn't have thought about trying 5 missiles.

It's like, blue doors take one shot of normal gun, the next door you'd think would take one shot of your new weapon. But no, it's 5! The fuck's it made of?

You get the morph ball bomb. Would you have tried 5 of those for a block?

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Poor Dave.

I haven't played Super Metroid in years so barely remembered anything, but hitting a pink door with a missile at the very least gave visual feedback, so I hit it 3 more times. Nothing.

I went back through the possible corridors I could, checking theres not really anywhere else to go, and figured, yup, I probably need to hit it with exactly 5.

I'm not saying I'm smarter then Dave, but you can certainly argue you can continue trying with the options laid down for you in game. Ala, missiles and pink doors. It's not rocket science, it's all you have in-game at the present time.

Well, it is a little bit.

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It’s not unreasonable to ask for help at such an early section. What is unreasonable is to expect the game to give you the answers as soon as you are stuck. And I think it’s very sad that many developers these days bend over backwards to deliver on such expectations.

Or game developers realised that this sort of thing just isn't massively exciting. Be honest, it isn't a particularly clever 'puzzle' and is ultimately a bit pointless.

I got stuck on this bit recently. I figured it out, it was fine. But I didn't feel any satisfaction from sussing it out.

Five missiles indeed.

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I'm not defending the 5 missiles thing particularly but this wasn't a game made for now, and this sort of arbitrary randomness is just from an era where games could be a bit like that (Sonic 3, up and down Carnival Night Zone column anyone?). At least with the simplicity of "google >super metroid, red doors" the answer is probably not too far away.

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I'm not defending the 5 missiles thing particularly but this wasn't a game made for now, and this sort of arbitrary randomness is just from an era where games could be a bit like that (Sonic 3, up and down Carnival Night Zone column anyone?). At least with the simplicity of "google >super metroid, red doors" the answer is probably not too far away.

That Carnival Night Zone column/barrel/NIGHTMARE CREATION is literally the only time in the entire game that pressing Up is required. There is a good reason why so many people got stuck there. And there are equally good reasons why such stupid design conceits have been abandoned. I am not suggesting that the frustrating hand-holding that most games come with today is the answer, but there has to be a middle ground between over-tutorialising games and puzzles with arbitrary solutions.

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That Carnival Night Zone column/barrel/NIGHTMARE CREATION is literally the only time in the entire game that pressing Up is required. There is a good reason why so many people got stuck there. And there are equally good reasons why such stupid design conceits have been abandoned. I am not suggesting that the frustrating hand-holding that most games come with today is the answer, but there has to be a middle ground between over-tutorialising games and puzzles with arbitrary solutions.

Oh I agree with you, I thought Super Metroid was a marvelous game overall though and thought it was worth pointing out it's a bad design decision made during video games infancy and the Sonic example is just another (even more terrible) design flaw that's more typical of that period than we have now.

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I'm not sure if people are being serious about the five missiles thing. Once you shoot it with one it shows signs of vulnerability so it's natural to just keep pummeling it until you run out.

I remember back in my video game infancy I was playing some side-scroller, maybe on my Atari ST or something; anyway... I get to the boss and I try hitting him and he won't die. It never occurred to me that I must repeatedly pelt him until he died as there were no indicators that I was doing any damage at all, no animations, no HP bar. I was VERY young, but that is one of my first gaming memories.

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I'm not sure if people are being serious about the five missiles thing. Once you shoot it with one it shows signs of vulnerability so it's natural to just keep pummeling it until you run out.

I remember back in my video game infancy I was playing some side-scroller, maybe on my Atari ST or something; anyway... I get to the boss and I try hitting him and he won't die. It never occurred to me that I must repeatedly pelt him until he died as there were no indicators that I was doing any damage at all, no animations, no HP bar. I was VERY young, but that is one of my first gaming memories.

It's surprising, because 'Have you tried hitting it?' is a stock answer on rllmuk.

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I'm not sure if people are being serious about the five missiles thing. Once you shoot it with one it shows signs of vulnerability so it's natural to just keep pummeling it until you run out.

Does it change between one and two? If not then no, that's not natural. If anything it suggests it's the wrong weapon.
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