PlayStation 4 Console Thread

[Spacehost]

Don't begrudge a single penny of what I paid towards TLOU. The definitive version of a sublime game. Sure I read some article in Edge where Naughty Dog said it was a huge undertaking to port and took over a year to do. I know you always get some marketing spin with these things, but I've no reason not to believe ND.

TLOU was sublime. Stuff like using the cinematic character models for the entire game so it never felt like you were shifting gears. And any idiot who thinks that moving a PS3-optimised rendering pipeline to the extent TLOU had to a whole new set of hardware wasn't an incredible undertaking needs to bone up on their GPU code.

[Stanley]

Ohh come on, it has a much better line up - Forza 5, Forza horizon 2, Dead rising 3, Sunset overdrive, Halo MCC, Titanfall, Killer Instinct Vs TLOU and err, Knack, Shadowfall and Driveclub

I have had plenty of fun on my PS4, once i fixed the pad and if PSN happens to be up (bud's tish) but it lacks games as bad as the PS3 did and much like that the competition has a much better line up - i am sure there will be loads of great games but we are talking about the first year and it's not been great if you want variety or quality exclusives.

Like I said it has a better line up if you want Forza or whatever, but there's nothing there that would make me settle for a less powerful machine. Aside from that we have PS+ which is a major reason I opted for Sony as I love indie games. Microsoft has fuck all in that department.

I bought my PS4 mainly for Destiny, and I'm betting most people are choosing their console for multiplatform titles. Listing a tonne of lacklustre games on either consoles is pointless; it's Destiny, Call of Duty, Assassin's Creed et al that sell consoles.

I love how you miss stuff from the PS4 list. Where's LBP or Infamous?

Stuff I've enjoyed the most - Destiny, Pure Pool, Shadow of Mordor, Outlast, Binding of Isaac, Velocity 2, Resogun, Towerfall. So a real mixture, but as you can see exclusives don't feature heavily. I played through Last of Us again as it came free with my PS4, I wouldn't have otherwise but it's great for people who missed it first time. I'll be getting Alien for Christmas, so there's another multiplat.

[Shimmyhill]

Like I said it has a better line up if you want Forza or whatever, but there's nothing there that would make me settle for a less powerful machine. Aside from that we have PS+ which is a major reason I opted for Sony as I love indie games. Microsoft has fuck all in that department.

I bought my PS4 mainly for Destiny, and I'm betting most people are choosing their console for multiplatform titles. Listing a tonne of lacklustre games on either consoles is pointless; it's Destiny, Call of Duty, Assassin's Creed et al that sell consoles.

I love how you miss stuff from the PS4 list. Where's LBP or Infamous?

Stuff I've enjoyed the most - Destiny, Pure Pool, Shadow of Mordor, Outlast, Binding of Isaac, Velocity 2, Resogun, Towerfall. So a real mixture, but as you can see exclusives don't feature heavily. I played through Last of Us again as it came free with my PS4, I wouldn't have otherwise but it's great for people who missed it first time. I'll be getting Alien for Christmas, so there's another multiplat.

I also didn't mention Ryse or peggle 2, both a match or better than LBP or Infamous!

I like the indie stuff but i prefer it on the vita where it feels more at home IMO but yes Sony have done very well there, i am also a big fan of PS+ and like i said i have had lots of fun on the PS4 mainly with BF4 but also Destiny and COD.

[Graham S]

Peggle is on PS4 nowadays.

[joffocakes]

Plus it isn't very good compared to the original.

[SweatyTravolta]

Aside from that we have PS+ which is a major reason I opted for Sony as I love indie games. Microsoft has fuck all in that department.

Define fuck all for me. Or as I put it on the last page

I think people like to point out that people don't take into consideration the indie titles more than people don't take into consideration the indie titles. Also people bring it up as if the other platforms don't have smaller quirky games. Front and centre on the Wii U store at the moment is a huge banner for Shovel Knight.

[layten]

TLOU was sublime. Stuff like using the cinematic character models for the entire game so it never felt like you were shifting gears. And any idiot who thinks that moving a PS3-optimised rendering pipeline to the extent TLOU had to a whole new set of hardware wasn't an incredible undertaking needs to bone up on their GPU code.

I don't care how much work you think it was. It was a re release of a last gen game with very little to differentiate it apart from the higher resolution and framerate, things bought for free by the hardware being an order of magnitude higher than what it had been running on. Sony took that, and punted it out the door at full whack price, and people defend that! You have to wonder just how much optimisation they did do on that code. The GPU in the PS4 is many times faster than the PS3. You can easily brute force many things that required wizardry on the PS3

Anyway, comparing the effort put into TLOU and the MCC is ludicrous (which is what started all this).

Edit: I just like to point out I think the game was brilliant, I'm just cynical about how Sony priced it.

[Guest]

This thread contains many examples of classic Shimmyhill bullshit: he expresses his opinion and when somebody offers one that differs he calls them wrong and restates his original opinion again and again. That's why nobody listens to him anymore.

[Stanley]

I don't care how much work you think it was. It was a re release of a last gen game with very little to differentiate it apart from the higher resolution and framerate, things bought for free by the hardware being an order of magnitude higher than what it had been running on. Sony took that, and punted it out the door at full whack price, and people defend that! You have to wonder just how much optimisation they did do on that code. The GPU in the PS4 is many times faster than the PS3. You can easily brute force many things that required wizardry on the PS3

Anyway, comparing the effort put into TLOU and the MCC is ludicrous (which is what started all this).

Edit: I just like to point out I think the game was brilliant, I'm just cynical about how Sony priced it.

Should a game be priced based on production cost? Last of Us was still full price on PS3 when the PS4 version came out, and it was only a year old.

[Gorf King]

'a bit of work' lol

Like I said, comparing the two games and moaning that people are not complaining about the MCC when they might have done with TLOU is crazy when you look at the work and effort put into each.

Driveclub is an absolute shambles that's put me off the title probably for ever, even if it's properly fixed, but that's down to the net code and/or servers. The game underneath that, I really like. TLOU isn't something I imagine they could really have made any better than it was on PS3 except technically - for me, the gameplay was perfect, the story and characters were, and all they've done is make it 1080p and 60fps and throw in the excellent DLC. I agree that it should have been cheaper, but I can't see how they could have put any more work into it.

As for the MCC, I once thought I might get a One just for that, more or less, even though that, too, is essentially a set of games brought into full HD (is it full HD? Dunno. It looks nice enough anyway). But then (believe it or not), Destiny came along and somehow it's scratched that Halo gunplay itch. Plus Destiny's new, and offers the addictive qualities of PSO as well as the lovely 5 minutes of gunplay with variations that I could indulge myself in forever, which feels very Bungie. I didn't think it'd get me like it has, but it has - and (again, not a practice I admire) some of the content is exclusive to PS4. So Bungie have really undermined my reasons for getting a One, ironically. (It's the sort of title I'd imagine you'd love as well. Didn't you care for it?)

Talking of the care and work put into the MCC, it's odd that the PS4 thread these days seems to be all about how Driveclub was shambolic and online gameplay on the PS4 isn't up to the standard of MS's offerings. But there's little mention of failings with the One's titles. The MCC apparently had such care lavished on it that it's caused Jon - hardly one of MS's biggest critics - to comment that he's 'absolutely dumbfounded that this has been launched in such a state' and 'it's really starting to grate. I just want to enjoy it as it's meant to be played, but this is seriously putting me off' (because of the restart level/crash to desktop bugs in H2), and that he 'won't even mention the joke that is matchmaking.' Do these seem fair criticisms to you, coming from a massive fan of both the Halo games and MS's console(s)?

So I'm not sure the One's up-rezzed titles really do show that they've had a lot more care put into them than the PS4's. I don't think there's much between the consoles right now apart from if there's an exclusive you really want, and then a tiny bit of performance difference, and (in the case of Destiny), who's playing online with you.

[layten]

Should a game be priced based on production cost?

Of course not. But bare bones ports of previous games sold at full price? When even Nintendo put more effort into remastering previous gen titles you have to take a step back and think.

Gorf, to call Halo2 just an 'up-rezzed' title is doing it a massive disservice, they have completely redone the entire game, an obvious example of work put into the title unlike TLOU for the PS4. As for Destiny, I have a real dislike for online shooters, that's why I've not had anything to complain about with the the MCC. Plus Destiny seems to have a mixed bag reception, people saying it's not up to Bungie's earlier works.

[Monkeyboy]

I'll be honest, I'm not a fan of online shooters either, but I've had loads of fun playing Destiny with randoms and soloing stuff as well. It doesn't really feel like an online shooter sometimes, if that makes sense.

[Gorf King]

Gorf, to call Halo2 just an 'up-rezzed' title is doing it a massive disservice, they have completely redone the entire game, an obvious example of work put into the title unlike TLOU for the PS4. As for Destiny, I have a real dislike for online shooters, that's why I've not had anything to complain about with the the MCC. Plus Destiny seems to have a mixed bag reception, people saying it's not up to Bungie's earlier works.

I haven't played the MCC, so I might be completely wrong, but I thought it was more or less the original games but with new graphics. Dunno - what else is new?

I don't like online shooters either - well, not competitive multiplayer ones. I'm crap at them, and I can't engage at all with them (I couldn't even with H2, where at first, at least, I performed sort of ok, until I just switched off). It's a chicken and egg thing, so I dunno if I can't be bothered with them cos I'm crap or I'm crap because I can't be bothered. Probably a bit of both.

But I love collaborative online games like PSO, and I love Halo. If that sounds like you (and from your FF online stuff Halo talk it sounds like it does), you might just love Destiny to bits. The main criticism from MMO types concerns lack of content, but (although obviously I'd like to see more, and always will) if PSO's 'go through the same areas with different modifiers' approach worked for you, you'll have few issues with this. And the full-on raid, the end game (which you can reach relatively quickly compared to most MMOs), is a unique experience, being both MMO raid plus shooter plus a few other things. I honestly, really, think you'd get lots from it. You should give it a go, on whatever platform. (But there's only one sensible choice to make for this game if you own both consoles.)

[layten]

Well I don't want to keep taking the PS4 thread off topic. But this is DigitalFoundry's take on MCC H2. http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/digitalfoundry-2014-halo-2-anniversary-tech-analysis

[Lovelyman]

Halo 2 was crap though. And they've done fuck all to one and three.

[Gorf King]

Yes, the phrase 'up-rezzed' might be technically inaccurate, but all they've updated is the visuals, no? It's the same game. That's what I mean really. Well, that and they've introduced a few crash-to-desktop bugs. Which (the new visuals) is great, as H2 is such an old game - but this means you're bound to see a bigger difference than you will between a one-year-old PS3 title (TLOU) and its 1080p, 60fps PS4 equivalent. I don't think it's fair to criticise ND for making as much of the game as has been made of H2. I agree that it shouldn't have been full price, mind, but technically I don't see how the work put into it is in any way a basis for criticism, lack of crash bugs aside. The MCC is undoubtedly better value on that front.

Anyway, Destiny. You really shouldn't miss out on that.

[kradica1]

The Last of us wasn't a full price release was it? I thought it had a £39.99 RRP, You can certainly pick it up pretty cheaply now.

[CarloOos]

Halo 2 was crap though. And they've done fuck all to one and three.

If there's a single thing to come out of the MCC it's the realisation that Halo 2 isn't crap at all, now the decade-old fog of unattainable hype has finally been blown away. It's actually really fucking good, it's just not CE.

Anyway they've all had some spit-and-polish (instant graphics switching in Halo 1, improved lighting in Halo 3, Halo 4 looks like a genuine next-gen game), and they all look and play amazingly in 60fps. As a single player package it's superb (fortunately, for the time being).

[Super Craig]

The Last of us wasn't a full price release was it? I thought it had a £39.99 RRP, You can certainly pick it up pretty cheaply now.

It wasn't. £40 on the PlayStation Store at launch.

[Lovelyman]

If there's a single thing to come out of the MCC it's the realisation that Halo 2 isn't crap at all, now the decade-old fog of unattainable hype has finally been blown away. It's actually really fucking good, it's just not CE.

Anyway they've all had some spit-and-polish (instant graphics switching in Halo 1, improved lighting in Halo 3, Halo 4 looks like a genuine next-gen game), and they all look and play amazingly in 60fps. As a single player package it's superb (fortunately, for the time being).

Fucks sake. You've made me want it now.

[SweatyTravolta]

I wouldn't pull the trigger just yet. Despite how wonderful it all sounds the game was clearly too ambitious for the time frame they were given and it's a mess at the moment. Almost nothing works unless you want to sit and play through the campaigns on your own and even then you better finish that level before quitting. I think it is worse than Driveclub because people expect Microsoft stuff to just work and they're nlt used to this. At least MS are giving refunds to those that bought digitally. They better get it sorted soon.

[instasis]

I was under the impression that 3/4 of the MCC were released last generation?

Either you're up for HD updates or you're not. I am, because I never owned a PS3, so they're as good as new games for me. To argue one HD update is more valuable than another is a bit short sighted.

I'd also buy the full priced shit out of a CoD collection.

[SweatyTravolta]

I think the MCC is in a completely different ballpark to other HD updates though. In theory this game lets you instantly jump between titles in the series so for example you and your mate could just play through all the big open vehicle levels from every game before jumping into a multiplayer playlist that takes you on a journey down memory lane as you're hopping from memorable maps across all four games. That's pretty unique and don't forget this is the first time that Halo has been playable on a console online.

Obviously none of it works but to claim it is just a HD remaster is a little off.

[footle]

I haven't played the MCC, so I might be completely wrong, but I thought it was more or less the original games but with new graphics. Dunno - what else is new?

I don't like online shooters either - well, not competitive multiplayer ones. I'm crap at them, and I can't engage at all with them (I couldn't even with H2, where at first, at least, I performed sort of ok, until I just switched off). It's a chicken and egg thing, so I dunno if I can't be bothered with them cos I'm crap or I'm crap because I can't be bothered. Probably a bit of both.

But I love collaborative online games like PSO, and I love Halo. If that sounds like you (and from your FF online stuff Halo talk it sounds like it does), you might just love Destiny to bits. The main criticism from MMO types concerns lack of content, but (although obviously I'd like to see more, and always will) if PSO's 'go through the same areas with different modifiers' approach worked for you, you'll have few issues with this. And the full-on raid, the end game (which you can reach relatively quickly compared to most MMOs), is a unique experience, being both MMO raid plus shooter plus a few other things. I honestly, really, think you'd get lots from it. You should give it a go, on whatever platform. (But there's only one sensible choice to make for this game if you own both consoles.)

The main thing I've taken from the MCC is that bungie never recaptured the original halo, and that as a single player game it still beats halo 2, 3, destiny.

The second thing is that halo four with a simple up-res - this being the nearest thing to TLOU - looks next gen.

The third thing is that I wouldn't buy it yet till they fix some bugs, which is becoming depressingly familiar this autumn, although we can summarise the problems:

- matchmaking is broken. Custom games are not;

- there's a random level skip if you play through halo CE

- halo 2 doesn't necessarily resume from checkpoints correctly over a console restart

It's in the eye of the beholder if this is better or worse than an unconnected permanently connected racer, but I've noticed that I'm playing FH2 again whilst waiting for a fix, and I'm kind of hoping that DA3 will get a day one patch on PS4 by Friday,..

[bradigor]

I think the MCC is in a completely different ballpark to other HD updates though. In theory this game lets you instantly jump between titles in the series so for example you and your mate could just play through all the big open vehicle levels from every game before jumping into a multiplayer playlist that takes you on a journey down memory lane as you're hopping from memorable maps across all four games. That's pretty unique and don't forget this is the first time that Halo has been playable on a console online.

Obviously none of it works but to claim it is just a HD remaster is a little off.

So it's just a HD Remaster with a Game Genie activated?

It is the game that has tipped me over the edge for trying to get an XB1 sooner rather than later though.

[instasis]

I think the MCC is in a completely different ballpark to other HD updates though. In theory this game lets you instantly jump between titles in the series so for example you and your mate could just play through all the big open vehicle levels from every game before jumping into a multiplayer playlist that takes you on a journey down memory lane as you're hopping from memorable maps across all four games. That's pretty unique and don't forget this is the first time that Halo has been playable on a console online.Obviously none of it works but to claim it is just a HD remaster is a little off.

So what's the litmus test for whether or not something is an HD update then? Level skip? New multiplayer elements? Photo modes? Significantly upscaled character models? Next gen hair? C'mon, call a spade a spade.

At best we're arguing semantics. Are these titles (TLOU, MCC, Tomb Raider, Unfinished Swan, Whatever...) that I can play on a previous generation? Yes, they are. Could it be argued that they're effectively placeholders while the industry catches up with new IPs with a generation that's talen off far faster than they expected? Yes, it can.

Does that actually matter if people are getting fun, and joy, and excitement from them? No, it doesn't.

[SweatyTravolta]

Is the MCC a HD update, of course but to claim it is anything similar in terms of how it was updated to those other games you mentioned is quite far off. I mean for one, those games worked.

Personally I think that TLOU was a good idea for a port. There's a lot of people coming over from the 360 who would never have had a chance to play the game and now they get to play the best version. It also came so late in the console cycle that even some PS3 owners might have missed out and now the release schedule is a little quieter it is the perfect time to catch up.

[instasis]

Halo:CE was available (and worked) both through BC and as a remastered edition on 360, and Halo 3 and 4 both work wonderfully well as far as I'm aware.

I've made no claims as to effort involved in anything - I'm purely talking about the validity of HD updates, whether or not they're relevant, and criticising the EG article for portraying it as a key flaw with the PS4.

Edit: that said, I don't agree effort makes something more relevant.

[SweatyTravolta]

You couldn't play Hang em High online, therefore Halo CE was not available on the 360. What they tried to push as Halo CE multiplayer was an affront to God himself. Now that is how you do not do a HD remake.

I'm all for remakes in general. I really enjoyed playing through Tomb Raider again, it was one of my favourite games so why not? I also count stuff like Wolfenstein as next gen even though it is essentially just a cross gen HD remaster released at the same time as the previous version.

[instasis]

So the litmus test is the addition of online elements that weren't there before, then?