PlayStation 4 Console Thread

[Petrousgyre]

Are we ignoring the fact also that most people who buy one system ultimately end up with both? That's where the XB1 sales will come.

Most people who buy either a PS or Xbox end up with both? You got a source for that? Strikes me as unlikely.

[Alex W.]

It's too little too late to make any kind of q,difference

Well, Microsoft doesn't have a lot of options to improve Xbox sales outside of buying a time machine, can we at least agree that the decisions they are making are the kind of things that attract customers?

[SMD]

Fucking hell burn this thread.

[Stanley]

Well, Microsoft doesn't have a lot of options to improve Xbox sales outside of buying a time machine, can we at least agree that the decisions they are making are the kind of things that attract customers?

I don't think it will attract them, no.

[SeanR]

Ummmm I haven't paid a cost , up until the announcement no one knew they were getting BC for free on Xbox one.

Ps4 launched cheaper and more powerful for different reasons, in no way did Xbox one launch more expensive and less powerful due to BC! They went out of their way to tell us there was no BC , keep your Xbox 360

[womblingfree]

PS NOW's more about future proofing games and back catalogue's and making digital streaming the main delivery method of digital content in the not too distant future. Backwards compatibility will sound as silly as a term in the future as the idea of saying Pink Floyd LPs are backwards compatible with your iPhone. Just games, old games and new games.

And while I'm playing Tomorrow's World I imaginge you'll be able to stream games on TV without the need for any kind of console pretty soon.

[Revival]

So you'd rather go with a solution that forces you to pay twice for a title you may already own and play it with controller latency vs a dedicated legacy BC service that takes into consideration your account and any titles you've previously purchased?

That's not future proofing, It's just enabling a secondary funding source.

[Clipper]

PS NOW's more about future proofing games and back catalogue's and making digital streaming the main delivery method of digital content in the not too distant future. Backwards compatibility will sound as silly as a term in the future as the idea of saying Pink Floyd LPs are backwards compatible with your iPhone. Just games, old games and new games.

No it isnt about future proofing games at all. It is simply monetising their back catalogue, "future proofing" is a side effect. And if it doesnt get enough subs or make enough cash? it'll be ditched and there goes your future proof.

Their aim is to get you to pay for their games over and over again, or even better, pay monthly forever. A future where we own nothing and pay corporations for the privelege

The consumer is king

[TehStu]

Surely it is a selling point as it's sending out a clear message that if you invest in games digitally then the company has plans in place to support your investment in the future allowing you to continually play your previous purchases without having to pay twice.

It's purely a move to give more confidence to the userbase. It's basically them saying if you invest in our infrastructure we will have a stable, reliable and consistent digital library in the future.

Winner*.

*based on what we've heard. Subject to the usual T&C of PR blurb, but still. It'll either be brilliant, or amount to nothing. If it's brilliant, it'll pay off in the long term, if not this generation.

[womblingfree]

So you'd rather go with a solution that forces you to pay twice for a title you may already own and play it with controller latency vs a dedicated legacy BC service that takes into consideration your account and any titles you've previously purchased?

That's not future proofing, It's just enabling a secondary funding source.

It's a streaming service not a one off purchase. No idea how many times I've bought different albums on tape, LP, CD or MP3, same as the rest of the planet. But despite that streaming services flourish. There isn't going to be a time in the future when we go back to boxes full physical media.

Of course it monetises the back catalogue. It also gives easy access to the back catalogue. Choose between downloading and keeping stuff or subscribing to stream.

[TehStu]

It's too little too late to make any kind of q,difference

Not done a lot of enterprise strategy, have you? Same dullard attitude that Android gets.

Fucking hell burn this thread.

Yeah, and while I appreciate I've contributed to the mess, it was entirely on-topic due to the PS2 emulator announcement. It just so happens the discussion has straddled 3 threads. But no one cares about BC, I'd rather keep paying for remakes.

[womblingfree]

No it isnt about future proofing games at all. It is simply monetising their back catalogue, "future proofing" is a side effect. And if it doesnt get enough subs or make enough cash? it'll be ditched and there goes your future proof.

Their aim is to get you to pay for their games over and over again, or even better, pay monthly forever. A future where we own nothing and pay corporations for the privelege

The consumer is king

Future proofing in order to monetise. As digital download and streaming are the only delivery options once discs finally die for good I'd say the chances of people suddenly deciding they don't want to play anymore are close to zero.

Best thing about Netflix for me is the ease you can sign up and cancel easily. It's a million miles away from the convoluted fines and seeming impossibility of cancelling contracts from days of yore.

[SMD]

Not done a lot of enterprise strategy, have you? Same dullard attitude that Android gets.

Yeah, and while I appreciate I've contributed to the mess, it was entirely on-topic due to the PS2 emulator announcement. It just so happens the discussion has straddled 3 threads. But no one cares about BC, I'd rather keep paying for remakes.

It's not about it being on topic, it's just a car crash. Emulation is good, pretending it isn't or that it's a zero sum game is odd and the arguments have been awful.

[Stanley]

Not done a lot of enterprise strategy, have you? Same dullard attitude that Android gets.

Haha, what?

I don't know why people are getting so upset all of a sudden. I don't remember people crying out for backwards compatibility before MS announced it, now it's more important than anything.

[Harsin]

I was and was roundly told that backwards compatibility didn't matter, incidentally by some of the people now arguing its importance.

[mdn2]

I was and was roundly told that backwards compatibility didn't matter, incidentally by some of the people now arguing its importance.

Yep. I complained loudly about the lack of BC and everyone was like 'backwards compatibility lol'

Now it's a serious matter all of a sudden.

[SeanR]

you know that episode of The Office where they have the pub quiz...

that's the BC discussion.

[TehStu]

Haha, what?

I don't know why people are getting so upset all of a sudden. I don't remember people crying out for backwards compatibility before MS announced it, now it's more important than anything.

I'm not upset, and it's not the most important thing in the world. I've stated this several times, but let's spell it out again:

1. First, none of us gain having an effective monopoly. That's bloody obvious, even if you're a die-hard fanboy (not saying you are, general point)

2. They'll never catch up this generation, you don't genuinely think otherwise, do you? So, in penny-pinching Nadella land, do you actually think they'd throw money (and probably not an insignificant investment) after bad? Surely you can see this is a long term play? Even if it doesn't carry over to the next generation (and whether it does is purely speculation one way or the other), they're also on about 360 games on Windows 10, etc. It's potentially part of their wider services approach. And hey, Sony aren't blind to it - I saw (was it here?) a leak of the PS4 streaming locally to Windows, which would be brilliant for me.

Whether people cried out for BC prior to this is irrelevant. I haven't invested digitally because ownership feels time bound, whereas that's not the case on other platforms. I'm thinking PC, but I'm certainly more relaxed about Android purchases, knowing something I bought for my Nexus 7 years ago works on my Moto G phone right now. I think those who are excited, or at least supportive, about this current implementation of BC is the prospect for a continued ecosystem, going forward.

That's all. I struggle to see why it's not a good thing, for any of these systems. Initial D comes to the PS2 emulator? I'll have it for a couple of bucks, I don't have a device capable of playing it any more.

It's a good thing. Good lord, we're arguing against new features.

[TehStu]

I was and was roundly told that backwards compatibility didn't matter, incidentally by some of the people now arguing its importance.

Yep. I complained loudly about the lack of BC and everyone was like 'backwards compatibility lol'

Now it's a serious matter all of a sudden.

Well, citation needed on the "same people" thing, but regardless, this sort of BC hasn't been done before, to the best of my knowledge. We normally get it right at the beginning of a new generation, when people want the new and shiny. It's not directly equivalent, unless you can demonstrate otherwise. Which other BC solution was added 2 years into a generation, supporting (eventually) hundreds of titles?

It might not be important to many, particularly not in this thread, but it's interesting to some, and it's a new approach.

[Clipper]

Haha, what?

I don't know why people are getting so upset all of a sudden. I don't remember people crying out for backwards compatibility before MS announced it, now it's more important than anything.

I was crying out for it, i even said that if Xbox One had BC it probably would've tipped me over the edge to buying one at launch. Previous gens it didn't bother me as much but with all the focus on digital stores/purchases and XBLA last gen I was pissed off that I'd bought into an ecosystem (or so I thought) and then was told tough shit none of it is compatible.

Instead I bought a PS4. And then a year later got an Xbox One.

[MattyP]

It's a good thing. Good lord, we're arguing against new features.

Yep. Sure if Sony also offered BC with PS3 games people would also think that its a good thing.

BC is free and a value added feature. What is there not to like? Business cases aside its a nice addition for the gamer. Hope this becomes the norm and all consoles are BC going forward.

[Uncle Mike]

Great PS4 chat.

[MattyP]

Great PS4 chat.

Yeah thread should have been split a while back unfortunately as BC is hardly relevant to PS4. Maybe an admin can "prune" some of it off into a new thread and call it the "Backwards compatibility debate" or something.

Apologies to all PS4 fans as I've had a few posts on this derailment..

[mushashi]

Yeah, and in the past Microsoft believed that we wanted an always-on console with disk DRM and mandatory Kinect, so I wouldn't say they're the most reliable authority on what sells Xboxes.

But they aren't the only ones who claim this, and interesting to note that Nintendo, despite having full free BC for quite a while now, don't seem to shout about it too much, which is odd, considering they have the best, most consumer friendly solution for it.

BC isn't a strong selling point, at best it's a way to stop past owners defecting to an alternative choice. You need actual new compelling reasons to get people to upgrade, BC is there to sway them to stick with you, it won't make many people upgrade for that capability.

The way I look at Microsoft's decision to U-turn on it is that they believe it can stem the defection losses to Sony and stop it being a total rout this round as lots of undecided X360 owners left to sway. They are managing to stay within touching distance in their 2 remaining strongholds so there is still hope.

[Alex W.]

Agree completely, well-argued.

[Superunknown]

The way I look at Microsoft's decision to U-turn on it is that they believe it can stem the defection losses to Sony and stop it being a total rout this round as lots of undecided X360 owners left to sway. They are managing to stay within touching distance in their 2 remaining strongholds so there is still hope.

I think MS have to assume that the PS5 will be backward compatible out of the box (assuming it's x86 based), which may limit defections back to MS as you've described. So they need to get as many 360 owners to upgrade to the Xbox One to limit the longer term impact too.

[MattyP]

I think MS have to assume that the PS5 will be backward compatible out of the box (assuming it's x86 based), which may limit defections back to MS as you've described. So they need to get as many 360 owners to upgrade to the Xbox One to limit the longer term impact too.

I really hope this is the last gen of different consoles I hope MS and Sony get together shake hands and make a console box together and split the profits. Hell freezing over etc.... Still the focus could then shift on making the good stuff... the games... which everyone can buy and not need to buy multiple consoles to play them on.

They are both x86 machines now anyway so other than controllers and slight differences in hardware it all seems just a bit silly. They could make so much more money working together I think... Although guess some would argue that a monopoly on consoles would be a bad thing - at least it would be a standard. And there is always Nintendo. Just seems its an inevitability at some point what with the cost of AAA game development these days.

Also there would be less fanboy war fights. Well just PC vs Console.

[Uncle Mike]

There's already a standard. It's the PC. Such a silly conversation.

[TehStu]

An ever changing standard. You're right, silly.

[MattyP]

There's already a standard. It's the PC. Such a silly conversation.

Well not convinced that it's plug and play enough for console players yet. It will get there but there are so many hardware combinations etc at the moment.