Nintendo Wii U

[Vemsie]

Played the Bayonetta 2 demo, it seems like just a mindless, repetitive, disorientating, button-masher with some (very) good graphics. Not my thing at all. Still, the demo's saved me wasting thirty quid on a game which I have zero chance of enjoying, so it has served its purpose at least.

You can also play Street Fighter by just pressing high kick, but where the fun in that?

It's anything but mindless, unless you play it that way. The game has very rich gameplay systems to mine. Basically what you put into it is what you get out of it. If you want shallow combat systems, play Shadow of Mordor.

But I can see it's not for everyone.

I just bloody love it though. Like I said in the Bayo 2 thread, I played the first hour of the game or so yesterday and every fight is such a joy, even moreso than in Bayo 1, which had a few fights that were less fun. Just great combat and set-pieces, lots of hidden fights and portals to find and phenomenal music and art direction, both in the environments and enemy design.

[Alexlotl]

Just gave it another go, and I think I get it now. I wasn't using lock on before, which screwed up a lot of my combos, then when I was facing the boss I was trying to evade with the Lock On button . This time I made it through to the boss's final stage before getting beasted, then beat him on the second try. The timing of the evades against the boss was interesting - I'd could do it with about 85% success rate, but I'd struggle to tell you exactly when to push the button. Just a question of getting the feel of it.

The gamepad feels like an unnecessary encumbrance here - I find it really hard to adjust my grip from ZR/ZL to R/L. Definitely something designed with the Pro Pad in mind, I'd guess.

Anyway, I think I like it. It's got a hyperkinetic feel that reminds me of the 90's arcade renaissance, particularly Sega stuff, although there's also a lot of Sin & Punishment in there, in a good way. I could live without the T&A, but points for the sheer absurdity of the character (she carries two guns, and her heels are also guns. Plus, she appears to be wearing her own hair).

I won't be there on launch day, but it's on my list of things to pick up at some point.

[Garibaldi]

I switch everything off at the wall, but switch the gamepad on at the wall as soon as the Wii U goes on.

You people who don't switch plugs off at the wall are the abnormal ones. I bet you leave all your phone chargers plugged in and and switched on too.

Represent.

The problem with a lot of modern appliances is there's no way to completely switch them off without doing so at the wall. I was genuinely surprised when I was able to find a modern TV with an off button as well as a standby function.

Yes, I am trying to derail the thread into a heated energy conservation debate.

[scottcr]

The graphics for Bayo 2 are *stunning*. I'd love to see this on a 60" telly.

[Protocol Penguin]

You can also play Street Fighter by just pressing high kick, but where the fun in that?

It's anything but mindless, unless you play it that way. The game has very rich gameplay systems to mine. Basically what you put into it is what you get out of it. If you want shallow combat systems, play Shadow of Mordor.

But I can see it's not for everyone.

I'm not playing it like anything - I've never played Bayeonetta, I have no idea what it played like and all I did was download the demo for Bayeonetta 2, played it twice, wasn't impressed, and have changed from considering buying the full game to putting it on my 'nope' list. Maybe the demo is not representative of the full game and its hidden depths, but I judged what was put in front of me by that demo, which from what I could ascertain was a disorientating manic game with lots of button pressing. I didn't enjoy it for a second, and I shouldn't be hounded for saying how I felt after playing the demo. I've been gaming for so long now, I go by gut instinct to save me from poor purchase decisions, and if my gut instinct is wrong, well, I'd rather my instincts occasionally make me pass on a genuinely good game than follow the crowd and spend forty quid on something I'll quickly regret owning.

[stefcha]

Hounded? Fucking hell, get a grip.

[dvdx2]

I'm not playing it like anything - I've never played Bayeonetta, I have no idea what it played like and I just downloaded the demo for Bayeonetta 2, played it twice, wasn't impressed, and have changed from considering buying the full game to putting it on my 'nope' list. Maybe the demo is not representative of the full game and its hidden depths, but I judged what was put in front of me by that demo, which from what I could ascertain was a disorientating manic game with lots of button pressing. I didn't enjoy it for a second, and I shouldn't be hounded for saying how I felt after playing the demo. I've been gaming for so long now, I go by gut instinct to save me from poor purchase decisions, and if my gut instinct is wrong, well, I'd rather my instincts occasionally make me pass on a genuinely good game than follow the crowd and spend forty quid on something I'll quickly regret owning.

dont worry mate, there are certain games on here which have mythical like status which your not allowed to criticise....

i didnt like the first one, especially with such an annoying lead character and this looks more of the same (i'll give the demo a rattle later), although it does look technically amazing.

[Wiper]

Hounded? Fucking hell, get a grip.

Perhaps it's not being hounded exactly, but I'd say it's reasonable to take some offence to responses like this:

You should sell off your Wii U to someone who can at least appreciate games. You seem to have no hope in that.

Based on that, I'm not sure it's Protocol who needs to 'get a grip'.

[rgraves]

To defend that post from Fallows a tiny bit- it's a compounded response to the way Penguin reacted to Hyrule Warriors as well. His post on that recently was:

I'm finding this to be the biggest load of shite I've played in years, an absolute joyless and disorientating button-mashing slog. Really regret opening the packaging and playing it now. It's even made me regret ever buying a Wii U at all, a feeling I hadn't had since before I had all that fun with Mario Kart 8. Someone please PM me an offer to take the game off my hands ASAP, I really really can't stand it being in my house any longer.

So with that, then this reaction to Bayo 2 (a game which is certainly marmite, but clearly has depth and quality):

Played the Bayonetta 2 demo, it seems like just a mindless, repetitive, disorientating, button-masher with some (very) good graphics.

He's not exactly helping himself if he doesn't want people to suggest he's over-reacting and being a touch extreme....everyone has stuff they like and don't like, but "I really really can't stand it being in my house any longer" is more than a touch OTT...

[Vemsie]

To defend that post from Fallows a tiny bit- it's a compounded response to the way Penguin reacted to Hyrule Warriors as well. His post on that recently was:

So with that, then this reaction to Bayo 2 (and game which is certainly marmite, but clearly has depth and quality):

He's not exactly helping himself if he doesn't want people to suggest he's over-reacting and being a touch extreme....everyone has stuff they like and don't like, but "I really really can't stand it being in my house any longer" is more than a touch OTT...

Yes, I think there's been a bit of overreaction on both sides. Of course a game can't work for you, that's fine. I don't like most driving games for example. no matter how good they are. They're just not for me. That doesn't make them shit games though. Saying Bayonetta 2 is mindless while it has a combat system with tons of depth or that's it's a button masher while it's anything but unless you, well, mash buttons instead of learning its systems, isn't helping. Just accept that it isn't for you and move on.

Like this:

I'm sorry guys but I don't like Bayonetta either. I mean I like the presentation, music, sheer energy and weirdness of it all and can see it's a good game in it's genre but it's just not for me. I'm still going to keep my WiiU if that's ok.

[chris on the moon]

The gamepad feels like an unnecessary encumbrance here - I find it really hard to adjust my grip from ZR/ZL to R/L. Definitely something designed with the Pro Pad in mind, I'd guess.

Are you holding it with your index fingers on R/L, and your middle fingers on zl/rl?

I've had some "how to hold controllers" trouble in the past. Like when I put my left hand on the leftmost stick on the n64 pad, for like, months before I realised.

[stefcha]

Based on that, I'm not sure it's Protocol who needs to 'get a grip'.

I agree, but it's not really surprising that the local Platinum mentalist isn't the voice of reason. Regardless, that and one comment from Vemsie with a big smilie that concludes with "I can see it's not for everyone" hardly constitutes a hounding.

[Alexlotl]

Are you holding it with your index fingers on R/L, and your middle fingers on zl/rl?

I've had some "how to hold controllers" trouble in the past. Like when I put my left hand on the leftmost stick on the n64 pad, for like, months before I realised.

Index fingers on ZR/ZL. I know it would make more sense to use my ring fingers there, but that doesn't support the weight of the pad so nicely.

I don't find the pad particularly ergonomic, so unless a game offers meaningful small-screen content, it's a bit of a pain. Guess I should track down a pro controller in the near future.

[freezycold]

The tablet is horrible for controlling it, I just ordered a pro pad thanks to the demo.

[Protocol Penguin]

He's not exactly helping himself if he doesn't want people to suggest he's over-reacting and being a touch extreme....everyone has stuff they like and don't like, but "I really really can't stand it being in my house any longer" is more than a touch OTT...

I didn't enjoy Hyrule Warriors at all, that really is a mindless button masher, and TBH I was doubly pissed off that my girlfriend bought it for me full price on release just as her current job ended and shouldn't have spent the money. Particularly not on a game that I found completely and literally unplayable within half an hour, then I get grief on a web forum for not expressing the accepted opinion about said game.

As for Bayonetta 2 (again), yes, the demo didn't do anything for me but I might buy it at a later date if someone can convince me that it isn't as tiresome as the brief section I played made the game seem to me. I'm an experienced gamer, I just don't have the time or patience for anything that don't grab me in the first 15-20 minutes.

[dataDave]

You don't really have anything positive to say about anything though, it's borderline trolling. Of course not everyone can be a Bayo fan, it took me two years to work out what the game was about, that wasn't what I was reacting to.

Do you only post when stuff doesn't appease you? Genuine question.

Hyrule Warriors is A LOT more than a mindless masher for anyone willing to explore what it has on offer. Again, it's just more baseless negativity.

[Protocol Penguin]

So I'm classed as too 'middlecore', or whatever the current derogatory term is, to have valid opinions? Nice one.

And where exactly does one get all this super-hardcore information that turns these games from button-mashers into deep, satisfying gaming experiences? I put in the disc, turn on the console, play. If that's not enough these days, then I have no words.

[dataDave]

Perhaps it's not being hounded exactly, but I'd say it's reasonable to take some offence to responses like this:

Based on that, I'm not sure it's Protocol who needs to 'get a grip'.

To be honest, I find you to be a bit of the same. You only ever rear your head when you have some negative comments and critique to throw into the mix, or some admitedly awesome work on a poll that you're formulating. Apart from that have you ever contributed any positive and engaging gameplay discussion?

Wow. If I went into all of the other threads for the games I didn't like and spouted off how I thought they were shit, and gave legitimate reasoning, I simply wouldn't have enough time in the day.

[DC Lemon]

Bayonetta was the kind of gamey game I used to think I should enjoy by default. But I didn't. It wasn't a totally awful experience but now it's 2014 and I'm brave enough to know I could be having a lot more fun with an Edge 6 than this Edge 10 while being glad that others will go nuts over a Wii U exclusive.

[dataDave]

And where exactly does one get all this super-hardcore information that turns these games from button-mashers into deep, satisfying gaming experiences?

From playing the game in question? Trying to get a higher score than other people? Look at the competitive scene, how do those guys appreciate their games of choice?

What about guitarists and other musicians? How do you reckon they get good? By coming on to forums and acting all negative about their instrument?

[Alexlotl]

Thanks Fallows, you've really made it clear who the irrational one is in this debate.

[TheSlugFormerlyKnownAsNap]

I didn't like the first Bayonetta at all, despite restarting it 3 or 4 times to see what I was missing, and I'm sure I'm not going to like this one either. I probably won't even bother with the demo if it's as much as the first game as everybody says.

Regarding the time and effort you have to put in; it might pay off in pure gameplay mechanics, but I found the whole setting, story and character so cringeworthy bad that I didn't even want to be part of that world, let alone work tireless hours to master it. I'm not going to invest hours/days/weeks to master a game that I don't like while I hardly can find the time to play the games I actually DO like.

[rgraves]

Particularly not on a game that I found completely and literally unplayable within half an hour

"literally unplayable" - honestly?

[Nobuo's Organ]

I've only ever watched Saur play these character action games. Looks like fun if you're up for the time investment.

[dataDave]

What, 30 hours or so?

[rgraves]

I didn't like the first Bayonetta at all, despite restarting it 3 or 4 times to see what I was missing, and I'm sure I'm not going to like this one either. I probably won't even bother with the demo if it's as much as the first game as everybody says.

Regarding the time and effort you have to put in; it might pay off in pure gameplay mechanics, but I found the whole setting, story and character so cringeworthy bad that I didn't even want to be part of that world, let alone work tireless hours to master it. I'm not going to invest hours/days/weeks to master a game that I don't like while I hardly can find the time to play the games I actually DO like.

This. It's obviously perfectly possible to not like or enjoy a game - everyone has their own personal tastes. It's a leap from that though to 'this is total shit and has no value you're all mad'.

Case in point - I don't like Smash Bros. Never have, always found it dull and boring. Does that mean I think it's shit and worthless? No, of course not - plenty of people love it and get a lot of enjoyment out of it. I can see it has quality, and I'm not going to flatly deny that purely because it doesn't float my personal gaming boat. I'm just not going to buy it.

[dataDave]

I've also never been able to enjoy taking Smash beyond party-brawler state of play. I suppose that comes down to your competition.

Like, how I thought I was alright at SF before moving to Singapore.

[TheSlugFormerlyKnownAsNap]

I don't like Smash Bros either. I don't like fighters at all really. Sometimes a couple of rounds, but I'm bored of them very quickly. The only fighters I truly loved were International Karate on the C64, IK+ on the Amiga and Soul Calibur on the Dreamcast. Virtua Fighter 5 was good too. I never played any of them to any high skilllevel or anything, usually I'm quite happy unlocking all the characters and stages and some one on one fights and then I'm done.

[Wiper]

To be honest, I find you to be a bit of the same. You only ever rear your head when you have some negative comments and critique to throw into the mix, or some admitedly awesome work on a poll that you're formulating. Apart from that have you ever contributed any positive and engaging gameplay discussion?

Wow. If I went into all of the other threads for the games I didn't like and spouted off how I thought they were shit, and gave legitimate reasoning, I simply wouldn't have enough time in the day.

Yeah, I never post about games I like, me (that's me just grabbing the first few positive posts that appeared in a search on my username; in the same time as those I've posted one middling opinion of Bayo 2, and one criticism of The Evil Within). I just don't shy away from also talking about games I don't get on with, or have mixed opinions of.

Combine that with the fact that I play a lot of games (and like to try games I'm not sure I'll enjoy), and the fact that I don't tend to put as much effort into writing about my perspective on a game if I've already seen that exact same perspective written out a good few times, meaning my lengthier posts tend to come when I've really enjoyed a game most people aren't talking about (e.g. my thread about To The Moon), or dislike a game most people enjoy (e.g, well, you've clearly seen a few of those), and you might get a perception that I only post to give negative opinions - particularly if you're staying out of the threads about games I've liked!

[tommygun]

"literally unplayable" - honestly?

Some dick's spouting hyperbole on the internet. Aren't you used to it yet?