Nintendo Wii U

[Curtis]

My Wii-U is sitting there, but i'm so very happy i bought it.

[TheSlugFormerlyKnownAsNap]

Cool story brah

[Radish]

I've never understood that - if you aren't using it, why are you happy you bought it? Does it bring you pleasure just looking at it? If I spent £300 on something (any console, not Wii U specifically) and didn't use it I wouldn't be very happy that I'd bought it. I'd be rushing to Ebay. But then I'd much rather make my money back rather than hang onto a console I don't play much, which is why I don't own a PS3/360 anymore.

[Dandy_Sephy]

Japanesse gamers have shunned the big western games and in many ways have become more insular in their tastes.

Off on a tangent, but last I checked 'big' western games were shifting more units in Japan then before. Certainly this is true of stuff like FPS games, which traditionally did not appeal to the Japanese. A lot of it comes down to publishing, one of the few advantages Square-Enix seem to have now is that they are able to publish western games in Japan and give them actual marketing budgets. They publish CoD in Japan and that seems to bring in the money, it must do as they offer it in subtitled and dubbed versions and both sold high numbers. As do Bethesda RPGs.

One problem for western games in Japan is that they get buried under the sheer weight of either big name or specific genre domestic games.

As for the western popularity of Wii U and 3DS, it's the PSP all over again, although that started by setting records (in the UK at least). Western devs are afraid of committing large resources without seeing the right numbers. Heck, PSP sold large hardware but the software numbers turned devs off.. Given the number of financial issues and closures affecting the industry in the last few years, perhaps this is not a surprise. 100,000 first week units is considered either underachieving or a failure in the UK, for most Japanese games 70k is a strong launch for most titles. Game budgets tend to be lower making it a stable market.

[Cthulhu Steev]

...do people seriously not remember the PS3 launch? Particularly in Europe?

We're still doing the same old crab raaaaaacer jokes, why do you think it's been forgotten?

[macosx]

Sonya fucked up a launch and now Nintendo I await MS's stumble....

Reggie's going to earn his money this year, like a prize fighter on the ropes soaking up the punishment to release the Megaton punch.

[gone fishin]

Currently it's sales track is a head of the DS in japan. It's not doing so well in america and europe but still selling well. The reason for this is simple. A lack of western studios 3rd party support bring big western games to it. Now just think to yourselves who stupid the industry has become when it ignores a machine with over 30 million units sold. The are however prepared to pour money into some game on the 360/ps3 even knowing full well it'll tank and lose them money. Just look at EA and Medal of Honour as an example. Meanwhile in japan DQVII comes out and sells a million plus copies in a few days. Animal crossing comes out and hit nearly three million and it's still going. The problem in the west is that money men have come into the industry and have all the say. Meanwhile in japan they are still trying to catch up in the tech stakes with the western devs.

Nintendo meanwhile have fallen into the same trap as many developers in japan. They have been caught out by the big east/west split in gaming. Japanesse gamers have shunned the big western games and in many ways have become more insular in their tastes. The west meanwhile loves it's big flashy FPS's and 3rd person games. The trouble for nintendo is whether they still have the firepower in their titles to bridge the gap. I think that's the mistake they made with the WiiU launch, they didn't have that title that could grab you. Imagine how different things could have been if it launched with a Mario Kart.

Good points well made.

For some of the old farts in this thread , the whole gaming industry now sounds like 1982/83, particularly outside of Japan.... that was always described as some kind of "gaming industry crash"- although the reality was that the "crash" lasted several years.

What is happening in the industry now: creative redundancy, too many identikit titles, fat cat corporations just expecting titles to sell shit loads, far too many gaming platform options, consumer apathy and confusion. It's almost like a reflection of 82/83.... shall we listen to some Phil Collins?

I don't know if we are in the middle of another crash, but Nintendo, one of the most respected games company in the world, releases the successor to one of the most successful home consoles of all time.. and it's not doing particularly well, isn't a great sign for the industry overall.

[Massive Invisible Dog]

The reason for this is simple. A lack of western studios 3rd party support bring big western games to it.

They didn't need big Western third party games to sell the DS over here.

[hoot]

The Wii sold boat loads because it had a USP and Wii Sports to sell it. It also managed to appeal to what was then an untapped market, which proved to be huge. What does the WiiU offer exactly? Once Sony and MS have released their new machines and we see the same levels of apathy, I'll agree the industry has got problems, until then, I can't see see it as anything else than Nintendo missing the mark.

[macosx]

Exactly - not the market, just the paltry goods Nintendo displayed software wise. . If it had released with a firstparty tentpole title we wouldn't be having the discussion - the usual masterclass of Nintendo attention to detail and game design. In reality we got a 2D Mario again and a minigame collection. Not exactly system sellers and demo titles to show proof of concept.

[Dandy_Sephy]

Are you suggesting a major 2D Mario isn't a tentpole release? On paper it's a perfect system seller.

It's not like Nintendo have ever launched with huge volumes of software, they have only ever had 2 or 3 in house games at a console launch. Admittedly that is offset when considering most of their consoles had staggered launches and not just a couple of weeks between regional launches, but they've launched as they always do.

Wii Sports as a system seller seems like an unintended effect to me, it was a cheaply made, no frills tech demo that had a reaction that not even Nintendo could have dreamt up. SM64 was the last launch title that was a system seller on merit. Twilight Princess was more of a 'hey, a new Zelda' rather than say an Ocarina type evolution of the series and certainly not on the level of SM64 as a launch title.

[gone fishin]

It's not the market? OK so how come the last three major console releases - the 3DS, the Vita and the Wii U have all stuttered globally? You could even add the PS3 to that list, if you wanted to be cruel... they've all under performed against expectations.

If the Wii was launched now- with the exact same line up, same USP it would not have been anywhere near the same success. We are in the middle of a recession- the majority of people don't give a fuck about games at the moment- unless it's free or 69p on their phone (at a push).

The games industry talks about how "gaming is bigger than ever" Did you know that, statistically, more women play games than men now? Isn't that amazing? This forum should be full of women!

And how many women are playing Farmville/Bejewelled instead of buying a dedicated games console? So where do the devs go to make money?

The poor Wii U launch isn't all Nintendo's fault- they historically been lambasted by third parties due to launch first party titles being the only reason why people buy a Nintendo console. So here's the third party's chance- there's bugger all from Nintendo. So what do they release? Shitty ports of existing titles. Or delay exclusives so they can become multiplatform- in order to "maximise earning potential".

Looking at it now, I bet Nintendo wished they'd fucked all the third parties over and gone gangbusters with Mario Kart, Super Mario Galaxy 2, Wii fIt U and Nintendo Land as the bundled game.

[hoot]

I don't even think it's just the lack of software. The Wii U isn't aimed at the 360 / PS3 market, the specs just don't stack up, simple as that. For the first time gamers who got on board with the Wii, what would they get out of it? A touchscreen controller which no one seems to know exactly what to do with? Then there's the price of the thing, It seems crazy now to think the GameCube launched for £130 with a very strong software lineup *and* was basically on par with the PS2 / Xbox hardware wise.

[Dandy_Sephy]

Looking at it now, I bet Nintendo wished they'd fucked all the third parties over and gone gangbusters with Mario Kart, Super Mario Galaxy 2, Wii fIt U and Nintendo Land as the bundled game.

Publishers will never compete with themselves. At the most you'd launch with two flagship titles and something below that to fill out the line up. When the platform is more mature and has a wider audience, then you can go nuts as people will be more selective of what they buy. The current Nintendo plan for this year to flood the market with games at the same time doesn't work for launch.

[sid]

If it had launched with any of the following I would have bought one by now...

Wave race

Pilot wings

Zelda

Mario 3d

Mario kart

Pikmin

It didn't.

I haven't got one.

Also is it just me or are the games a bit fucking expensive like

[TheSlugFormerlyKnownAsNap]

The problem with the Wii U is that, whichever way you look at it, it just isn't a very good deal at the moment. You have to pay a considerable amount of money to get one. For that money you get a box that is barely more capable than what you're already likely to have, and probably completely incompetent compared to what's about to be unleashed.

That box is used to drive a controller with a screen which hasn't proven to add much to the experience if you're not interested in same room multiplayer and don't have a bossy bitch wife hogging the TV all the time.

The box runs an OS that is still incomplete and sluggish even after a massive update you have to run before you can even get started.

On the box you can run third party games that are available elsewhere at a much lower price and do a lot more in the online department if that floats your boat. It has only one notable third party game in the shape of Zombi U which got mixed reviews and lacks mass appeal - most people would reckon it's good but not worth buying a console for.

The two first party games are squarely aimed at the old Wii crowd rather than early adopters. A party game - which we got sick and tired of last gen - and a 2D platformer in a series of which we already had 3 in a relatively short timespan, which were also generally considered to be inferior to the classics they're based on. Again, good but not worth buying a console for.

So what's left? It has no media playing capabilities, it does nothing better than the consoles we already have, third party support is already laughable and will probably get worse and we've got two consoles on the horizon that look likely to blow it away in the tech department. The only things the Wii U has left to look forward to are killer Nintendo first party titles and a pricecut, both of which might be far off still.

Frankly I think the Wii U's failure to sell has very little to do with the economic climate or the recession or whatever. People buy gadgets and content en masse, but they want to feel they're buying into something they get their money's worth from, stuff that sparks their imagination and makes them giddy with delight. The Wii U at the moment doesn't make people giddy, they just see an expensive toy that does nothing special.

[SteveH]

I'd actually go and buy one right now if Wii games could be played on the gamepad.

It's unique selling point was that games could be played on the gamepad if the TV is occupied. Then it turns out that it;s on a game by game basis. For the life of me I don't know why they didn't include Wii games and VC games payable on it from day one.

I did get to have a play on one the other night, and the gamepad is great (hate the placement of the right stick though - find it uncomfortable), screen is nice quality, and I love Miiverse.

But then after playing ZombiiU, I have no idea what I'd play on it in the next few months. I guess Wind Waker will be what spurs me into action. Pity, as I do have money sat here right now. Just like a fair few people here, this is the first new console I haven't bought at launch.

[RubberJohnny]

Frankly I think the Wii U's failure to sell has very little to do with the economic climate or the recession or whatever. People buy gadgets and content en masse, but they want to feel they're buying into something they get their money's worth from, stuff that sparks their imagination and makes them giddy with delight.

Like the Vita then?

[therearerules]

The problem about playing games for the Wii on the gamepad is so many of them use waggle, even games like Silent Hill, which would have been fantastic just with a pad or a pointer, had waggle shoehorned in.

[TheSlugFormerlyKnownAsNap]

Like the Vita then?

Well, the Vita suffers from much the same problem the Wii U does - mainly a lack of games that make people gagging to buy one and people not being convinced that the Vita has to offer them something they can't get on the stuff they already have (be it a smartphone or 3DS or whatever). I do think the Vita might have longer legs though, as it's technologically very advanced it has the potential to be relevant for a long while still, so with the proper marketing / pricing and some killer titles, Sony might be able to turn its fortunes around a bit. However, like the Wii U, I doubt it will become an oasis of third party support and/or exclusive titles.

[scottcr]

Naps is right... It's sold to the Nintendo die hards but hasn't communicated its value to anyone else. The Nintedo Direct showed some great stuff which hopefully isn't too far in the future... But I think they may have to reveal a bit of their E3 hand early.

Ubisoft said that they are convinced that Nintendo will turn it around and I imagine the guys at the top of the tree have an idea of what is coming..

It's a pity monster hunter is an up-ressed Wii game though as, again, it doesn't actually show off what the console can do. Ironcally, the only game to demonstrate that it's powerful is NFS.

[joffocakes]

Need for Speed doesn't sell it to me as powerful either though. If you told me it was on 360 I'd believe you. To convince me it was better than the existing versions I'd probably need to see some Digital Foundry obsessing over things I don't care about. Something has to appear to wow people more than some higher resolution textures here and there. And not necessarily in terms of graphics; there need to be more unique applications of the gamepad to capture the public imagination.

Like being able to draw a cock or something.

[scottcr]

Must be some amount of pressure on Aonuma just now...

[scottcr]

Woah! I just a look for popular posts in the Mario u Miiverse. Miiverse does video too... Wonder how long before they unlock that feature for general use.

[joffocakes]

I'd rather it wasn't. I quite like that the Miiverse stuff is moderated too; there's a lot of excellent and high quality stuff on there. They should probably have some user-created communites too; videos in those would be ok. And if you could look to certain communities to invite players to games it would avoid having huuuuuuuge friend lists and stuff. I'm constantly having to delete people I actually quite like from my Xbox friends list because of the 100 limit.

[scottcr]

I'm just talking about in game videos so you can help each other or show cool stuff, like the Mario videos. Not sneezing pandas or anything.

[gone fishin]

Well, the Vita suffers from much the same problem the Wii U does - mainly a lack of games that make people gagging to buy one and people not being convinced that the Vita has to offer them something they can't get on the stuff they already have (be it a smartphone or 3DS or whatever). I do think the Vita might have longer legs though, as it's technologically very advanced it has the potential to be relevant for a long while still, so with the proper marketing / pricing and some killer titles, Sony might be able to turn its fortunes around a bit. However, like the Wii U, I doubt it will become an oasis of third party support and/or exclusive titles.

People aren\t spending money on crap they don't need... if you leave the rllmukforum-universe, or even any gaming-forum-universe and it's pretty obvious to see that the general public just aren't that interested in games at the moment. It's something that people just don't need, especially when you can get angry birds for pennies...

I don't know what it's like in the Netherlands, but in the UK gaming retail is an absolute mess. There's one high street retailer focused on games- and they're only just hanging on. Go into Game and what do you see? Loads of nerds buying shitty 360 games. That are second hand.

It's completely different to how it was 6 years ago, Game used to be quite a nice place to go into (Gamestation was the smellier, nerdier one. You know, the one that your wife refused to go into). Now Game is like CEX, it smells of shit. Literally. From all the customers and staff that frequent it.

If you are launching a new console.. how on earth can you sell it when retail is in the state that it's in? Unless you go completely digital, but then how do you get enough install base to sell digital games?

And if you do a massive marketing campaign- where do you actually buy the thing these days? Is it supermarkets now instead of a game retailer?

The whole area of retail has pretty much messed things up. Where do you even put demo pods for a new console these days? It was easy before (Game, EB etc). Instead of maybe half a dozen demo pods in a city in the focused game retailers, do you have to stick one in every single supermarket? How much is that going to cost?

Then there's my anecdote from the other week- HMV has in it's window "New Wii U console available here!". Go inside the shop and in the Wii U section there's.... second hand Wii games and not a single Wii U game for sale. Or console.

All these factors make it really difficult to launch a traditional games console- with mobile/tablet gaming, you're not selling it as a games machine. Gaming is secondary.

Apple don't need to tell me where I can get an iPad from in their adverts, I'm not so sure about getting a new console...

I'm not sure what this post is about... it's more of a rant on the games industry in general than the Wii U. Hmmmmm... apologies...

[scottcr]

Just noticed that the Metroid game uses relative positioning of the wiimote like Zelda did. I was wondering why it worked when my boy stood in front of me with his controller.

It works very nicely indeed

[Keyboard Koala]

Oh dear...

http://www.mcvuk.com...trategy/0110982

Personally I don't really care. Yet.

Nintendo has beaten the odds more than once. But I really hope the Wii U won't be their Dreamcast though, because truth be told, it isn't doing well at all.

[joffocakes]

I hope it does have a price cut because then I might get one sooner. I'm not sure what I'm waiting for exactly. Money I guess.