Nintendo Wii U

[SMD]

PS3 also sold double what WiiU has done in the same time frame.

If you want to say PS3 had a bad launch(and I agree it wasn't great), how do you judge a device with less third party response, no media capabilities, viewed as under powered compared to PS4 or new xbox and selling less than half the PS3 did?

Again, no one's trying to claim it's been a success. I certainly haven't. But you've got people genuinely talking about the end of Nintendo or somehow that it's never, ever going to improve. The hyperbole is ridiculous.

[Liquid Myth]

...do people seriously not remember the PS3 launch? Particularly in Europe?

The PS2 was still being heavily supported by third parties, along with what everyone else said.

[hub2]

Going for broke with an ultra-expensive, un-proven 'Halo-esque' franchise, that would take at least 3 years to create, is idiotic at this point. If they went for that strategy they should have decided on it years ago.

It's been shown, at least on 3DS/DS, that Nintendo have the most bankable selection of franchises in the industry, and if they can get games out on a regular schedule people WILL buy into their system. They don't have that pipeline at the moment - that's their problem.

yeap - Retro hired staff from Uncharted 2 and Darksiders....

HAVE FAITH

Is that why 3 is so shit compared to 2? (Just started 3).

[scottcr]

Even on GAF the accepted wisdom is that Nintendo are the last of the 3 most likely to pack it all in... Nintendo's entire reason for existence is making gaming machines and games. They have billions in the bank, the worlds biggest selling piece of dedicated gaming hardware in the 3DS...

They done fucked up with the launch... but to say this is the end of Nintendo is utter bonkers.

[Uzi]

The PS3 was also 599 dollars/429 pounds or something at launch.

The Wii U and the vita were both misguided projects and a total misreading of the market. Nintendo has the advantage that usually their machines can live on first party/system exclusives alone, especially if the hardware is pretty cheap at launch or soon after, but they tried to make the Wii U as some all in one machine to cater to third parties, disillusioned gamers and thinking the wii casual crowd would come over because it has an ipad in the middle of the pad.

I have a vita and I love the hardware and some of the games on it, so I feel the pain of some wii u owners when you love the unique quirks of the system and genuinely enjoy using it, but sales is sales and if they don't improve, your system will get sub par support.

It isn't just hardware that is the main issue, third party software has been selling like shit for the most part, especially when you can't even get big industry names like call of duty to shift. That's why despite new current gen games coming out, there are no wii u ports being announced. Where is bioshock infinite? Is tomb raider happening (genuinely don't know)? Crysis 3- especially as the wii u is meant to have a little (according to DF- I think it really was only a little more) more grunt right?

Just be prepared that's all. I'm counting the vita as a dead system with the odd few games coming out and I don't really feel ripped off as I will get my monies from it, but it showed me that a huge company can release a system and the overall support of it can be lost through mis-management or market conditions. The wii u is showing very similar signs. Just be wary.

[SMD]

The PS2 was still being heavily supported by third parties, along with what everyone else said.

Yep and then it all went to the 360, the PS3 seemed to lag behind with third party games for a while.

[Uzi]

Yep and then it all went to the 360, the PS3 seemed to lag behind with third party games for a while.

Having sub par ports wasn't the same as having no ports.

For the most part Sony kept support because they had two previous gen of great third party support and relationships. The Wii U was meant to be the third party console for Nintendo, at least that's how they were presenting it as it was a weakness of the wii as well.

[SMD]

The PS3 was also 599 dollars/429 pounds or something at launch.

The Wii U and the vita were both misguided projects and a total misreading of the market. Nintendo has the advantage that usually their machines can live on first party/system exclusives alone, especially if the hardware is pretty cheap at launch or soon after, but they tried to make the Wii U as some all in one machine to cater to third parties, disillusioned gamers and thinking the wii casual crowd would come over because it has an ipad in the middle of the pad.

I have a vita and I love the hardware and some of the games on it, so I feel the pain of some wii u owners when you love the unique quirks of the system and genuinely enjoy using it, but sales is sales and if they don't improve, your system will get sub par support.

It isn't just hardware that is the main issue, third party software has been selling like shit for the most part, especially when you can't even get big industry names like call of duty to shift. That's why despite new current gen games coming out, there are no wii u ports being announced. Where is bioshock infinite? Is tomb raider happening (genuinely don't know)? Crysis 3- especially as the wii u is meant to have a little (according to DF- I think it really was only a little more) more grunt right?

Just be prepared that's all. I'm counting the vita as a dead system with the odd few games coming out and I don't really feel ripped off as I will get my monies from it, but it showed me that a huge company can release a system and the overall support of it can be lost through mis-management or market conditions. The wii u is showing very similar signs. Just be wary.

If it's another Gamecube, I don't have a problem with that. As you said, it'll be supported by Nintendo games and perhaps the eShop might flourish as indie devs keep flocking to it.

I actually want a Vita, as you said it's a brilliant piece of hardware but for some reason the games aren't there. At least this time Sony can afford to leave it on the market since it's got more grunt than the 3DS.

[MW_Jimmy]

Even on GAF the accepted wisdom is that Nintendo are the last of the 3 most likely to pack it all in... Nintendo's entire reason for existence is making gaming machines and games. They have billions in the bank, the worlds biggest selling piece of dedicated gaming hardware in the 3DS...

They done fucked up with the launch... but to say this is the end of Nintendo is utter bonkers.

But that is a big problem. There is quite obviously a slump in the games market at the moment, and as the only company with all their eggs in that basket, it will obviously be a bigger risk to Nintendo than anybody else.

Billions in the bank mean nothing, and I would argue they would be better to invest in development teams and new technologies. The smartest thing for Nintendo would be to really push on the 3DS and just let the WiiU coast along. I honestly think that even 3 months in, it's already a bit of a lost cause. They really needed to make the 12 months count, and they've already wasted a quarter of them.

[Uzi]

Yeah Nintendo won't drop it. They'll hopefully have a profitable if small and short run with it. They just need a steady release of first party software and get to a reasonable market share to not completely piss away profitability. They've done it before they can do it again. The mistake would be to aim big and spend trying to get there.

[SMD]

Having sub par ports wasn't the same as having no ports.

For the most part Sony kept support because they had two previous gen of great third party support and relationships. The Wii U was meant to be the third party console for Nintendo, at least that's how they were presenting it as it was a weakness of the wii as well.

True but by the same token - and I know some people will laugh at this - there are still plenty of titles yet to be announced since the next Sony/MS machines haven't been unveiled. Take Watch_Dogs, for example, still vagaries surrounding it and the platforms it'll be out. Also Nintendo seem to have gone in the other direction and only announce games that are imminently coming out. No one had heard anything about Mario Golf and that's slated for summer.

E3 is going to be the litmus test - you get the sense this time round everyone's holding their cards close to their chests hence this fog of war like scenario going into this Christmas.

Aside from a couple of Nintendo announcements, this is the first year in a long time where we have little idea what Christmas is going to bring - bar the obvious yearly franchises. If E3 comes and we're still talking about the anemic Nintendo line up then yeah, panic stations.

[Soo Denim]

Again, no one's trying to claim it's been a success. I certainly haven't. But you've got people genuinely talking about the end of Nintendo or somehow that it's never, ever going to improve. The hyperbole is ridiculous.

Sorry if I wasn't clear, I don't believe this is the end of Nintendo (nor would I want that to happen!). But I am concerned for the industry as a whole, it feels like we are in a slump. Vita and WiiU are both wonderful bits of tech, I wouldn't own them if I didn't like them. But they both need support, they are crying out for some 1st or 3rd party love.

It is also not a great precedent to be set 10 months before we see new sony and microsoft consoles.

This is the strangest console transition I've ever seen. I personally want a strong Nintendo, MS and Sony I'm in the good position to be able to afford all three machines. I've invested in Nintendo and WiiU, I want the software to justify this investment.

Sadly at the moment I'm holding out for Pikmin 2 and Game X, but one of them is not out for a few months, the other dosent have a name let alone a release date!

[SMD]

Yeah the industry as a whole worries me. More consoles are out there across all formats yet game sales are down.

I'm really hoping none of the big three are betting the farm on the next gen. I prefer console gaming to mobile.

[scottcr]

Wonderful 101!!'

[scottcr]

also - those 3rd party ports, Arkham City, ME3 and Darksiders 2... should've launched at 20 quid. Would've been snapped up at retail on launch.

I've just got Arkham City - never played it... but at 17 quid it seemed rude not to.

[jcee]

Haven't we been here before? But with the 3DS?? That seems to be turning out alright...

[Harsin]

The 3DS that continues to miss one after another of Nintendo's reduced sales forecasts? The 3DS that Iwata described as continuing to have 'underwhelming' sales in the West?

[hub2]

A reduced forecast doesn't mean bad sales, it might also mean bad forecasting. The 3DS is doing very well objectively, from a poor start.

[Red Alignment]

The 3DS that continues to miss one after another of Nintendo's reduced sales forecasts? The 3DS that Iwata described as continuing to have 'underwhelming' sales in the West?

The 3DS feels like the Nintendo 64, as in under-whelming in terms of sales compared to its (massively successful) direct predecessor, but will still have plenty of decent games and mainstream recognition, and you'll feel satisfied with despite the odd software drought. The Wii U... At this stage it almost feels like it is fated to become one of those semi-obscure machines like the Tatung Einstein or Commodore 16 or something, which you'll semi curse yourself for having bought, but will still keep it in your attic for years to come anyway.

[gone fishin]

The 3DS feels like the Nintendo 64, as in under-whelming in terms of sales compared to its (massively successful) direct predecessor, but will still have plenty of decent games and mainstream recognition, and you'll feel satisfied with despite the odd software drought. The Wii U... At this stage it almost feels like it is fated to become one of those semi-obscure machines like the Tatung Einstein or Commodore 16 or something, which you'll semi curse yourself for having bought, but will still keep it in your attic for years to come anyway.

It's receiving nowhere near as much apathy as Nintendo's more experimental consoles - the Virtual Boy - which was a monumental fuck up from Nintendo - or even that little Pokemon console thing.

I don't think Nintendo have helped themselves by having a poor first party launch window (have they even used the term launch window? It honestly seems like all the launch games have been spunked up already), it being too expensive and the game industry being in the absolute shitter. Yeah, you read reports about how well the industry is doing- yet there's redundancies, studios being closed and a real lack of any innovation. Even AAA titles like Aliens: Colonial Marines are a bag of shite.

It's probably the kicking that Nintendo need to get their shit sorted out. And banking away billions means it's not really a problem for them.

I still think Sony and Microsoft will be shitting themselves- particularly Sony after the Vita.

[pulsemyne]

The 3DS that continues to miss one after another of Nintendo's reduced sales forecasts? The 3DS that Iwata described as continuing to have 'underwhelming' sales in the West?

Currently it's sales track is a head of the DS in japan. It's not doing so well in america and europe but still selling well. The reason for this is simple. A lack of western studios 3rd party support bring big western games to it. Now just think to yourselves who stupid the industry has become when it ignores a machine with over 30 million units sold. The are however prepared to pour money into some game on the 360/ps3 even knowing full well it'll tank and lose them money. Just look at EA and Medal of Honour as an example. Meanwhile in japan DQVII comes out and sells a million plus copies in a few days. Animal crossing comes out and hit nearly three million and it's still going. The problem in the west is that money men have come into the industry and have all the say. Meanwhile in japan they are still trying to catch up in the tech stakes with the western devs.

Nintendo meanwhile have fallen into the same trap as many developers in japan. They have been caught out by the big east/west split in gaming. Japanesse gamers have shunned the big western games and in many ways have become more insular in their tastes. The west meanwhile loves it's big flashy FPS's and 3rd person games. The trouble for nintendo is whether they still have the firepower in their titles to bridge the gap. I think that's the mistake they made with the WiiU launch, they didn't have that title that could grab you. Imagine how different things could have been if it launched with a Mario Kart.

[Barny]

A lack of western studios 3rd party support bring big western games to it. Now just think to yourselves who stupid the industry has become when it ignores a machine with over 30 million units sold. The are however prepared to pour money into some game on the 360/ps3 even knowing full well it'll tank and lose them money. Just look at EA and Medal of Honour as an example. Meanwhile in japan DQVII comes out and sells a million plus copies in a few days. Animal crossing comes out and hit nearly three million and it's still going. The problem in the west is that money men have come into the industry and have all the say.

This makes no sense. Do you think Japan is a fairytale land where it's all about creativity? Or that it's never been the money men (whoever they may be) who run things?

DQVII sells a lot because it's Japan's biggest selling game-series and an update to a well loved previously released title. Animal Crossing sells a lot because it's Nintendo 1 st party magic and a release in a well loved and popular series.

30 million is nothing really. Should we go for about 120 million potential customers or 30 million? Tough decisions like this make executives sweat and loose sleep.

Are you an NDF'er?

[gizmo1990]

@pulsemyne. You're blaming western devs for not supporting the 3ds?? Why develop for a machine that has no cross platform support, still isn't selling near to expectations and then have to jump through all of Nintendos hoops too?

Or they can dev for pc and ios..

Nintendo themselves are to blame for the lack of western support. They should have courted third parties. They should have thrown some cash around. And they should have paid for unity support.

[JPickford]

DQVII sells a lot because it's Japan's biggest selling game-series

Insight.

[SMD]

Insight.

I did chuckle at that.

Next week - why GTA 5 will sell shitloads.

@pulsemyne. You're blaming western devs for not supporting the 3ds?? Why develop for a machine that has no cross platform support, still isn't selling near to expectations and then have to jump through all of Nintendos hoops too?

Or they can dev for pc and ios..

Nintendo themselves are to blame for the lack of western support. They should have courted third parties. They should have thrown some cash around. And they should have paid for unity support.

Wait, what?

[Smitty]

The Wii U is doing relatively badly, the only thing that can improve it are games, there are no big games (and by that I mean Nintendo AAA) coming out until at least Christmas. So this conversation has at least 10 months to run.

Seriously? I had noted the lack of games in the next couple of months, but with some of the talk around here i'd thought it was ending late summer at least. No big titles until Xmas?

[Barny]

Insight.

It's logic innit? Game from series that sells a lot sells a lot. And a silly argument for why developers should develop games for the Nintendo 3DS. Oh I wonder if a remake of a really well-loved Dragon Quest game might sell a few copies on the Nintendo 3DS. In Japan. Hmmmm.... it's a long shot....

I can imagine publishers and developers around the world going well I never... would you LOOK at that! Dragon Quest is selling like hot cakes. In Japan. On the Nintendo 3DS. This is the sign we have been waiting for. Time to fire up the dev machines and get cracking on some 3DS goodness. A year or two from now we will be ROLLING in money, Scrooge McDuck style.

[Smitty]

It's been shown, at least on 3DS/DS, that Nintendo have the most bankable selection of franchises in the industry, and if they can get games out on a regular schedule people WILL buy into their system. They don't have that pipeline at the moment - that's their problem.

Then they should have had some of these big franchises ready for the launch. If it had been launched with a epic gorgeous Zelda game, a hardcore Metroid universe shooter/action game or a new F-Zero, and maybe a cool RPG from a Japanese dev, that would have improved it's chances of having markedly better sales. Well, probably. The truth is that people have less money now, and some may be waiting for the PS3/720.

But at the very least Nintendo should have had some big hitters ready for launch.

[Super Craig]

Seriously? I had noted the lack of games in the next couple of months, but with some of the talk around here i'd thought it was ending late summer at least. No big titles until Xmas?

We don't know. Nintendo's new strategy of announcing things at the last minute means you often don't have a clue what's coming out more than a quarter in advance. I can see why they're doing it, but it's still annoying.

[hub2]

They've got a few games but Pikmin 3 and even Wind Waker are not system sellers. They're bound to give us more info at E3, so fingers crossed for christmas - Mario Kart for spring 2014 / Mario 3D for Xmas is my guess.