Nintendo Wii U

[Rain Birds]

I don't know, if developers start using stuff like Unreal 4 engine or really stretching out the extra CPU horsepower and/or RAM in the new machines, it may well be a tough call to fit it back into the Wii U. It's not just the graphics.

I know, but it's seldom going to be the practical impossibility it was last time around. There will be games that aren't feasible / would take just too much work, but it was a colossal leap the industry took with the last round of consoles (one which sent plenty of publishers careening to their doom...). I'm loathe to downplay it because the improvement will be very clear, but Wii vs PS3 / 360 was like expecting a junior school football team to compete in the Premiership.

[gizmo1990]

Nap I really don't see what your point is. Everyone knows your massive downer on the wii but that just comes off as someone throwing their dummy out the pram cos they didn't get what 'they' thought was right.

Anyone with an ounce of sense can see that the wii was an unqualified success in the market which Nintendo intended it for. It might not have delivered the goods for you but it did for many others. Saying something like the wii was creatively a failure is just, well, nuts.

[TheSlugFormerlyKnownAsNap]

I know, but it's seldom going to be the practical impossibility it was last time around. There will be games that aren't feasible / would take just too much work, but it was a colossal leap the industry took with the last round of consoles (one which sent plenty of publishers careening to their doom...). I'm loathe to downplay it because the improvement will be very clear, but Wii vs PS3 / 360 was like expecting a junior school football team to compete in the Premiership.

I don't know about that. A lot of game development time goes into optimizing, optimizing and more optimizing to squeeze it into the available hardware. When the developers get more space to play around in, they'll just take that space and build from there. The leap might just as well be as big as it was last time.

[angel]

I really enjoyed HOTD overkill on it. I really must do MP trilogy too.

[TheSlugFormerlyKnownAsNap]

Saying something like the wii was creatively a failure is just, well, nuts.

Well, it's just been so disappointing. I liked Nintendo so much when they were pushing the envelope with the N64 and single-handedly invented or reinvented entire genres. The GC was a bit disappointing because I had hoped for a bigger move forward, but they refined the stuff they did before in a lot of areas. It seems they stopped there and became convinced that the only way forward was through eccentric control methods. Expensive control methods that made for compromised host systems to keep things affordable. And these new control methods brought absolutely nothing of interest to me.

At the same time Sony and Microsoft saw a far weaker platform gaining the most sales and went out of their way to stall a new generation and bank on motion control shite instead. Microsoft put most of their development grunt/funds into creating shitty Kinect games instead of, say, Shadow Complex 2. I'm convinced that if it wasn't for the Wii, we'd be clutching our PS4/720 controller for over a year by now.

Nintendo intended to be disruptive with the Wii, and they pulled this off majestically. It's just not the kind of disruption I'm looking for. I would rather see Nintendo creating some kick ass hardware and once again exploit it to the max to raise the bar of what we expect of our games.

[SMD]

Err, Microsoft and Sony were putting their efforts into making as many third person shooters as possible. If you wanted something different, you got the Wii. That MS and Sony felt like they also had to offer something along the same lines is a good thing, just like Nintendo feeling they have to offer something more than just the Wii again.

[gizmo1990]

Nap honestly, you talk about Nintendos lack of creativity and 'not pushing the envelope' and then blame them for scuppering Shadow Complex 2 for goodness sake!

[Red Alignment]

The Wii was the followup to the GC, which was a failure.

Failure in several important ways - yes, unfortunately. However, on day 1 the GameCube was already loads better than the Wii U has been so far - competitively powerful, (very) competitively priced, had relatively OK third party support, some actual stand-out games (well, Super Monkey Ball).

[Nobuo's Organ]

Rllmuk: Play it once, Nap. For old times' sake.

Nap: [lying] I don't know what you mean, Rllmuk.

Rllmuk: Play it, Nap. Play "Nintendo, I Am So, So Disappoint."

Nap: [lying] Oh, I can't remember it, Rllmuk. I'm a little rusty on it.

Rllmuk: I'll hum it for you. Da-dy-da-dy-da-dum, da-dy-da-dee-da-dum...

[Nap begins playing]

[barkbat]

The Wii U launch line up is better than the cubes. Zombie U and Nintendoland are excellent titles. Zombie U could even be a classic.

[hoot]

The GameCube had a good launch lineup, I picked up SMB, Luigi's Mansion, Wave Race and Rogue Squadron. Wasn't Pikmin quite early on too?

[Stolly]

I have to agree with a lot of what Napoleon is saying though; despite its huge huge success, the wii was a huge huge disappointment (to me). And I did find the controller a gimmick, a really naff gimmick that I hated using. I mean stand back and look at yourself using it, while playing a game like Zelda, for a minute: A pointer remote in one hand, a long dangly cable and a small 'thingy' in the other.... with you spazzing about swooshing and waving the remote every now and then! To be fair the remote and nunchuck did do what they were programmed to do okay but at a massive expense to the games (that I like... or liked) - Zelda with a gamepad would just have been better. But it wasn't just that games were wedged into the using of the controller set up, it was that the games were wedged into the ownership profile of the wii too and horribly simplified, cutesified and dumbed down. That killed the wii for me. I think I own getting on for 25 wii games so I did give it a fair crack.

Jump now to the wii U and I'm not interested. The gamepad does feel like a gimmick, the machine doesn't look like it will attract the third party games that I like and Nintendo's games just feel too much of the same regurgitated with a fair smattering of dumbing down to boot.

[Stolly]

I have to agree with a lot of what Napoleon is saying though; despite its huge huge success, the wii was a huge huge disappointment (to me). And I did find the controller a gimmick, a really naff gimmick that I hated using. I mean stand back and look at yourself using it, while playing a game like Zelda, for a minute: A pointer remote in one hand, a long dangly cable and a small 'thingy' in the other.... with you spazzing about swooshing and waving the remote every now and then! To be fair the remote and nunchuck did do what they were programmed to do okay but at a massive expense to the games (that I like... or liked) - Zelda with a gamepad would just have been better. But it wasn't just that games were wedged into the using of the controller set up, it was that the games were wedged into the ownership profile of the wii too and horribly simplified, cutesified and dumbed down. That killed the wii for me. I think I own getting on for 25* wii games so I did give it a fair crack.

Jump now to the wii U and I'm not interested. The gamepad does feel like a gimmick, the machine doesn't look like it will attract the third party games that I like and Nintendo's games just feel too much of the same regurgitated with a fair smattering of dumbing down to boot.

* Whoops just checked and its nearer 15

[Pikkewyn]

The only part of that post I can't really argue with is 'imprecise', and that's only at times (the last couple of levels are the only real occasions where its inaccuracy becomes problematic because speed is also required). And it wouldn't have been a problem with MotionPlus. Zack and Wiki was *designed* around figuring out how to manouevring and use the controller in a bunch of different ways to solve its puzzles. If you take that out, you've got very little game left.

Well it's been ages since I played it, but I don't remember ever thinking 'oh yeah, this is great use of the Wiimote.' It was almost exclusively arb stuff like mimicking inserting and turning a key into a lock to open it. I don't get much pleasure from opening locks in real life, so it didn't really add much to the gameplay for me. Ditto sawing trees. Ditto violently shaking the Wiimote to turn animals into inventory items. A simple bomp on the head ala Mario would have sufficed. In fact, that's my main beef with waggle. Too many games added these pointless motion bits for no other reason than to have pointless waggle bits. Was it the Tomb Raider game that had those bits where you had to dust archeological sites? Dusting is a fucking bore in real life, why would I want to do it in a game? All that stuff just seems so unnecessary and only serve to teach toddlers and spastics basic hand-eye coordination. And I'm neither.

Anyway, Zack and Wiki. I did actually enjoy it at the time, but if I think back now, all I remember is the bonkers controls. Good game done in by the Wiimote. That and it being ridiculously fucking hard.

[Not Thread Owner]

113 here

(And before anyone says NDF, 202 Xbox 360 games)

[moosegrinder]

I have 6 wii games, 5 are fucking amazing 1 is ok,all are Nintendo. My Wii U will have something in common with the DC in that it'll be an exclusive only machine.

[scottcr]

Skyward Pad just wouldn't be anywhere near as fun to play

[angel]

The Wii U launch line up is better than the cubes. Zombie U and Nintendoland are excellent titles. Zombie U could even be a classic.

Eternal Darkness

[Paulando]

So I've had my Wii U for a few days now. Last night we were playing Black Ops 2 local multiplayer, each with our own screen. It's instantly one of the best multiplayer experiences I've had for years Some great scope for decent co-op/multiplayer games with that.

In other news, NSMBU is far better than I expected. It looks lovely, the level design is great, boost mode works well and is lots of fun, and the challenge mode is a superb addition. Really impressed so far.

[scottcr]

I do think part of the problem, a small part but a part nonetheless, was how the mainly US gaming media completely misunderstood ZombiU and gave it such poor reviews. Also, selling the ZombiU bundle in the states now is a good idea... Can't believe they didn't have that available on day one.

Anyway, the best "console is fucked" moment ever that resulted in the greatest turn around... Was when the Xbox was totally fucked. Wasn't selling. So MS slashed the price of the thing and bundled 3 awesome games, including Halo.

It's a shame Blops doesn't have local co-op missions like MW did... But I'll be picking up the next cod for exactly that. Dual screen games between telly and the pad are a great thing... As far removed from a gimmick as it could be.

[joffocakes]

Yes but for a lot of people Halo, once they actually played it, was a pretty big deal. Not Wii Sports big, but it was enough to sell a load of people the machine. I even got one for Halo 2 and, despite having already played the first one online a load, the xbox live stuff was a revelation for me, even if the single player was dull.

The promise of good co-op stuff with a screen each and the inventive multiplayer larks Nintendoland hinted at are the main things that appeal to me with Wii U; seeing beautiful Nintendo games in HD is second to all that for me. Seeing the gamepad player's face on screen during Mario Chase is brilliant; awkward and self concious at first and then just as hilarious when they've forgotten all of that and desperately try to escape.

I still agree with the idea that Nintendo machines tend to be worth the money in first party titles alone. I'm still waiting for a bit of a price drop, and one of The Wonderful 101, Pikmin 3 or Bayonetta 2 before I get one, but I will get one all the same.

[Not Thread Owner]

Sonic Racing £15 - http://www.zavvi.com/games-wii-u/sonic-all-stars-racing-transformed-limited-edition/10650119.html

[scottcr]

Ha! FZero in NintendoLand is good for that as well.. Look of pure concentration on the players face flying around the screen, while the perspective makes them look totally amazing with last minute avoiding of stuff and cool driving.

FZero on NintendoLand is surprisingly ace.

[gone fishin]

I do think part of the problem, a small part but a part nonetheless, was how the mainly US gaming media completely misunderstood ZombiU and gave it such poor reviews. Also, selling the ZombiU bundle in the states now is a good idea... Can't believe they didn't have that available on day one.

That's why I keep on going on about resources... It's a friggin disgrace that the major launch title was a third party game. Add to the fact that the Wii has had pretty much bugger all output from Nintendo for the past two years. I was expecting a deluge of first and second party games.... Where are they?

(Although I understand Nintendo have always been shit scared of pissing off third parties due to the obscene ratio of Nintendo v third party sales numbers, but it's inexcusable that there's still nothing decent on the horizon. Anyway, I don't care- I'm too busy picking up old wii games for a pittance. )

[scottcr]

I thought bundling with ZombiU was a great idea... Their problem was that they didn't bundle it in the states and poor reviews led to disappointing sales. It also features British things rather than American things, which wouldn't have helped... Which is a shame.

There was no point bundling Mario, everyone was going to buy that anyway...

[gone fishin]

I'm not so sure about the anti British argument, "Brand Britain" is massive at the moment... It might have been simply the fact an adult horror title is just not what was expected on the successor to the Wii,home of Wii Sports and Mario.

I also don't think Nintendo have been particularly good at getting the message across of it being a completely new console. If they had pushed it with a new mario title- that looked like it needed a new console to play it on-then they may have got the message across better. The name of the console doesn't help either.

"Super Mario Big Cock: so powerful it can only be played on the Super Wii" the kids then shout "RAAAAAADDD DUUUUUDEEE" while wearing a dayglo tshirt and ray bans.

You know, like the way they used to do?

[squirtle]

I mean stand back and look at yourself using it, while playing a game like Zelda, for a minute: A pointer remote in one hand, a long dangly cable and a small 'thingy' in the other.... with you spazzing about swooshing and waving the remote every now and then!

Oh, man, you're right! I hope no one ever saw me playing on of those dancing games, or played them themselves and recorded it and then actually put them on the internet! I mean, how stupid would they look! And those shooting games! Oh, man, I hope no one ever saw someone playing Virtua Cop or the like! I mean, how stupid that you were seen pointing a plastic gun at the screen and making little pew-pew noises! Phew! Good job people only ever saw me with a small piece of plastic in my hand getting all dewy eyed as a man with a neck bigger than my waist got all upset because his wife had been turned into a zombie by ooglie booglie monsters from under the ground! Phew!

[TheSlugFormerlyKnownAsNap]

Oh, man, you're right! I hope no one ever saw me playing on of those dancing games, or played them themselves and recorded it and then actually put them on the internet! I mean, how stupid would they look! And those shooting games! Oh, man, I hope no one ever saw someone playing Virtua Cop or the like! I mean, how stupid that you were seen pointing a plastic gun at the screen and making little pew-pew noises! Phew! Good job people only ever saw me with a small piece of plastic in my hand getting all dewy eyed as a man with a neck bigger than my waist got all upset because his wife had been turned into a zombie by ooglie booglie monsters from under the ground! Phew!

This is just a strawman you're attacking though, as Stolly made quite clear he had more issues with the limits of the motion controls and their influence on the games than being afraid of looking like a spaz.

[squirtle]

This is just a strawman you're attacking though, as Stolly made quite clear he had more issues with the limits of the motion controls and their influence on the games than being afraid of looking like a spaz.

But I love attacking straw men. I flail at them with my wiimote!

[barkbat]

Has anyone linked the recent Ubisoft behaviour to this?

http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/2012-11-13-ubisoft-boss-on-wii-u-price-i-cant-say-im-happy

It was an odd thing to go public on, and does suggest there was quite a battle behind the scenes. To suddenly complain like that suggests Ubisoft beliveved a launch price was going to be much lower, and perhaps even entered their exclusivity deal with Nintendo on the understanding it was to be much cheaper.

Maybe with the poor launch figures, Ubisoft feel their position was the right one, that Nintendo have cost them a lot of money, and now they are getting a little spiteful to claw back the R&D costs.