Nintendo Wii U

[SMD]

Opoona

Bless you.

[sandman]

Whats FINAL FANTASY MLAADL??

[TheSlugFormerlyKnownAsNap]

Oh, I didn't realise we were only using your personal definition of 'great'.

It's always subjective of course. I mean, you included Zack & Wiki ffs, the game with the most broken controls since Hard Drivin' on the Atari Lynx.

[joffocakes]

You forgot Order Up.

A few more games like that and the Wii U will be absolutely fine.

[SMD]

Muscle March!

Also we need Captain Rainbow to come out in English.

[joffocakes]

Muscle March!

[Not Thread Owner]

It's always subjective of course. I mean, you included Zack & Wiki ffs, the game with the most broken controls since Hard Drivin' on the Atari Lynx.

Never had a problem with the controls, and I don't recall any of the 6 people who borrowed it from me complaining. The ice lion boss being impossible (he's not), sure, but not a word about controls.

[TheSlugFormerlyKnownAsNap]

Muscle March!

That looks ... incredible!

[hoot]

It's always subjective of course. I mean, you included Zack & Wiki ffs, the game with the most broken controls since Hard Drivin' on the Atari Lynx.

Never has a game (or anything else for that matter) , made me wonder if I have anger issues. The controls were beyond awful.

[rjpageuk]

There is something strange how this discussion about the worry that third parties are dropping the WiiU due to disappointing sales has turned into a discussion on how the Wii (with its amazing sales numbers) had no decent third party games. If the latter is the case in your opinion, then Nintendo somehow managing to fix the sales of the WiiU isnt going to help.

[squirtle]

From a personal perspective, the two Resident Evil lightgun games, The Umbrella Chronicles and The Darkside Chronicles, were both hugely enjoyable and I put massive amounts of hours into both of them. Whether you label them as great or not is up to you, but I certianly loved them.

[TheSlugFormerlyKnownAsNap]

There is something strange how this discussion about the worry that third parties are dropping the WiiU due to disappointing sales has turned into a discussion on how the Wii (with its amazing sales numbers) had no decent third party games. If the latter is the case in your opinion, then Nintendo somehow managing to fix the sales of the WiiU isnt going to help.

The main problem with the Wii was that it was much, much weaker than its competitors AND had completely different controls. So it wasn't possible to port multiplatform games without severely optimizing them (or stripping them down) and somehow make the controls work. At the same time, most developers didn't know what to do with the controls.

The Wii U solved the controller problem largely (all traditional buttons and sticks are on them and you don't HAVE to use the controller screen for anything exciting - a map or a mirror image might be enough) and it's comparable in power to the current gen. So nothing stops developers from porting their current games to it, apart lackluster sales projections.

But if the next gen is indeed as powerful as people expect, the old problem of the Wii is back; if you optimize your games for next gen consoles and modern PCs, there's no compelling reason to put a lot of work in a 'lite' version that can run on the Wii U.

[scottcr]

That looks ... incredible!

Muscle March had about 6 of us in stitches one night... it's a total riot.

Fuck all to it as a game - but it's so mental, it just has to be played.

[TheSlugFormerlyKnownAsNap]

A Wii game is only great if a dispassionate jury of Napoleon, Mr Gerbik and Angel decide it is after several hours of heavy deliberation

Well, to each their own of course. But when I look at the games that really managed to suck me in, the games you'll mention in 10 years time if you're discussing videogame history with likeminded 40-something friends, only Mario Galaxy applies when it comes to the Wii. When I compare the Wii's software library to that of the PS3 and 360, it's pretty damn grim.

Muscle March had about 6 of us in stitches one night... it's a total riot.

Fuck all to it as a game - but it's so mental, it just has to be played.

Yep, I definitely need this. Is it a JP only game?

[Not Thread Owner]

Never has a game (or anything else for that matter) , made me wonder if I have anger issues. The controls were beyond awful.

Genuinely amazed by this. Had no idea people had problems. It was the very definition of perfect motion control at the time.

[TheSlugFormerlyKnownAsNap]

The problem with Zak & Wiki was that the controls would often respond very badly or not at all. The puzzles where you had to rotate objects to make them fit were infuriating. Turning a key became a quest of epic proportions because the thing would just do something completely different than what your Wii remote was doing.

The game itself was good fun, some cracking puzzles.

[Pikkewyn]

Zack and Wiki was another perfect example of imprecise waggle being forced onto a game that absolutely didn't need it. Wanking motion to a ring a bell was particularly annoying.

[Smitty]

Zack and Wiki was another perfect example of imprecise waggle being forced onto a game that absolutely didn't need it. Wanking motion to a ring a bell was particularly annoying.

That's the thing with waggle and other gimmicks: once it's there you have to try and use it to justify it being there.

Exactly my concern with the tablet here (not to mention bad battery life) - oh we've got a second screen so I guess we'll put some stuff on the second screen and er...hmm...oh yeah so it's revolutionary now.

And people like Scottcr will say 'omg I loved the bit where you had to look at the second screen, this game is totally unique, what other console has a screen on the console where you can look at things on the screen. I love Nintendo'.

[SMD]

And yet you hate that Nintendo don't make new IP.

[SMD]

Too late, that's in Game and Wario.

[Smitty]

And yet you hate that Nintendo don't make new IP.

What do gimmicks have to do with making new IP?

You're like a non sequitur machine recently SMD.

[SMD]

What do gimmicks have to do with making new IP?

You're like a non sequitur machine recently SMD.

Nintendo use familiar franchises for creative experiments.

[Smitty]

Nintendo use familiar franchises for creative experiments.

What do gimmicks have to do with making new IP?

You're like a non sequitur machine recently SMD.

[scottcr]

The best thing by far about the gamepad is being able to play the game on the the gamepad... of course, you need to have other people living in your house with you for you to notice just how ace this is..

... or - my boy plays skylanders this morning, quite happily messing around, while my daughter watches pingu on the telly...

... or... playing split screen multiplayer where each player has their own dedicated screen. I'm sure someone here will manage to poo poo this as well.

... or... well... Mario Chase.

Or... well... just picking the thing up without putting the telly on... checking MiiVerse and then starting a game from the pad.

It's absolutely not a gimmick. It's as much a gimmick as shoulder buttons, or a second stick. Once you've got a controller with a screen in it, you'll wish you had it on the other consoles as well.

[scottcr]

What do gimmicks have to do with making new IP?

You're like a non sequitur machine recently SMD.

anything beyond this is a gimmick to Smitty

[Smitty]

Haha, I knew that was coming.

Flatly: no.

[SMD]

Seriously though, you're a clever guy. You know exactly why a company would choose a familiar franchise to introduce new innovations, be it in design or control or whatever.

[Rain Birds]

The main problem with the Wii was that it was much, much weaker than its competitors AND had completely different controls. So it wasn't possible to port multiplatform games without severely optimizing them (or stripping them down) and somehow make the controls work. At the same time, most developers didn't know what to do with the controls.

The Wii U solved the controller problem largely (all traditional buttons and sticks are on them and you don't HAVE to use the controller screen for anything exciting - a map or a mirror image might be enough) and it's comparable in power to the current gen. So nothing stops developers from porting their current games to it, apart lackluster sales projections.

But if the next gen is indeed as powerful as people expect, the old problem of the Wii is back; if you optimize your games for next gen consoles and modern PCs, there's no compelling reason to put a lot of work in a 'lite' version that can run on the Wii U.

It's nothing like the logitistical problem of porting to Wii; you wouldn't have to re-write / use entirely different engines. A much simpler process, closer to, I dunno, shoe-horning Panzer Dragoon Orta onto Dreamcast. The gap is plenty big enough, but you're not working with something bereft of programmable shaders and so on. I mean, tessellation isn't out of the question and that's a DX11 feature, although DX10 is its natural playing field.

That's not to say I expect much support, because it's clear where preferences lie. Just that if Wii U should take off while the others struggle and publishers need money, bringing over ports (of most games) wouldn't necessitate the overhaul switching to Wii would have.

[TheSlugFormerlyKnownAsNap]

It's nothing like the logitistical problem of porting to Wii; you wouldn't have to re-write / use entirely different engines. A much simpler process, closer to, I dunno, shoe-horning Panzer Dragoon Orta onto Dreamcast. The gap is plenty big enough, but you're not working with something bereft of programmable shaders and so on.

I don't know, if developers start using stuff like Unreal 4 engine or really stretching out the extra CPU horsepower and/or RAM in the new machines, it may well be a tough call to fit it back into the Wii U. It's not just the graphics.

[Rudderless]

Zack and Wiki was another perfect example of imprecise waggle being forced onto a game that absolutely didn't need it.

The only part of that post I can't really argue with is 'imprecise', and that's only at times (the last couple of levels are the only real occasions where its inaccuracy becomes problematic because speed is also required). And it wouldn't have been a problem with MotionPlus. Zack and Wiki was *designed* around figuring out how to manouevring and use the controller in a bunch of different ways to solve its puzzles. If you take that out, you've got very little game left.