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Star Wars: The Force Awakens


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Whilst the PT clearly aren't the worst films ever made, I think there's a case for them being the most disappointingly bad films ever made, with regard to their expectations. Before anyone says they couldn't hope to meet those expectations - look how TFA is going down among SW fans. They didn't need to be the best movies ever, but they couldn't even manage to be above average.

Edit: ^^^ domestic US, of course.

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Did Lucas have the rights to do that? If so, does Disney now have the rights?

Fox has distribution rights to Ep IV in perpetuity and the other five until 2020. In 2020, the five rights will go to Disney, but if there is to be any release of Ep IV, Fox need to be involved. Fox and Disney have worked together to release box sets of movie series with the rights split between them in the past, so it's not an insurmountable hurdle.

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Yes, US Domestic, but it's also creeping up the All-Time worldwide chart, though it has a much tougher battle (I think Avatar ended up with a global total of $2.8 billion)

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Did the top two both have two runs at the cinema? I know Titanic did, with a 3D re-release years alter. I seem to recall something about Avatar having a second run too.

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As you say, Titanic had a major re-release with the 3D conversion. Avatar had a smaller release about 8 months after it's original debut. They put the extended/special edition into 800-odd theatres, where it made $10M.

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Forgetting ticket price increase and inflation, The Force Awakens is now the second biggest film of all time, having surpassed Titanic. By the end of the weekend (and more likely today) it will have crossed $700M and should end up being between $10-20M from Avatar's record, which it will break on Monday or Tuesday.

I'd love to know how much the figure has been bucked up by the multitude of repeat viewers. This must surely have taken the record for most rewatched film in the cinema by some margin already!

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All movies go through drafts. Even the PT. I think I read somewhere Carrie Fisher script doctored TPM.

Funnily enough, the very first time I found out that the prequels were planned to be made was alongside a rumour that Carrie Fisher was going to write them! A video game magazine I bought in 1994 had a feature on a Star Wars game (possibly Rebel Assault?), with a little sidebar on the three films and an announcement that Carrie Fisher had already started writing Episode 1.

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Nobody is denying that he created the basis of what we know as Star Wars, I just don't see why he deserves fawning praise for thinking of lightsabers and ripping off Flash Gordon 40 years ago.

Yet people are delighted with Abrams slavishly copying this aesthetic. Weird.

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Did the top two both have two runs at the cinema? I know Titanic did, with a 3D re-release years alter. I seem to recall something about Avatar having a second run too.

The other thing about TFA is that - up until a few days ago at least - it still hadn't been released in China. Not sure if it has now though.

EDIT - not 'til 9th January, so expect the numbers to jump quite a bit after that.

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You're just being silly now.

It's way more fun! Although only slightly more fun than sticking hot pokers in your eyes.

Showing someone the Holiday Special for the first time is a fun experience akin to showing them Two Girls One Cup. Showing someone the prequels for the first time is just a sad and hollow experience.

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He didn't "ruin" Star Wars, he made them in the first place. Everything else -- books, video games, cartoons series -- is a spin-off at best, and obfuscating Dragonball Z-styled shit at worst.

As whizzo said, he created it and then ruined it. Without Lucas, we'd have no Original Trilogy and no TFA, and so we should be thankful for what he created and for his legacy. But he did then later ruin the Original Trilogy with the Special Editions and later DVD/BD releases, and ruined the franchise itself with the Prequel Trilogy.

Lucas Created Star wars and then ruined it. Its not difficult.

Indeed.

One thing I am disappointed with in terms of Star Wars is the massive drop off in related videogame development. The franchise that brought us Tie Fighter, Rogue Squadron, X-Wing vs. Tie Fighter and Episode 1 Racer has had just Battlefront in the last five years? Where's my TFA tie-in?

I'm glad there's no licensed direct adaptation, as it would in all likelihood have been utter shite, just like the vast majority of other licensed direct adaptations of things. It also probably would have been awkward, given the secrecy involved in making the film and given the schedules of the actors.

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Another thing I like about this film is that it opens up the force to others than just Jedi or Sith. We have Maz Kanata, who says herself she is no Jedi, but knows the force*. Then there's Kylo Ren. He's not a Jedi, and he's not a Sith; he's a Knight of Ren. This then makes me wonder, what other factions were there? If there were other Dark Side factions, were there also other light-side factions in addition to the Jedi?

*There was rumour a little while back, one I really liked, that Han Solo was actually force-sensitive, he just never knew it. Think of all the times he flew the Falcon perfectly (the asteroid field!), and that knowing chuckle from Kenobi when Han says "there's no mystical energy field that controls my destiny". Did Kenobi sense it in him, but simply opt not to let on? And then there's that scene, decades later, with Maz. She's collecting glasses, and has her back turned to the entrance as Han walks in, when all of a sudden she senses Han, and sharply turns round to acknowledge him. Okay, yeah, perhaps she can just sense another person's presence, but we know from the other films that force-users can sense other force-users. It's probably just a rumour, but I still like it.

Also, Kylo Ren's overall look, with the mask and the cowl, is a lot more impressive and intimidating than Vader's. Oh yeah, I said it!

I'm not sure how much I like this. You wind up with a proliferation of force factions and force users and it removes a bit of the magic; it's no fun if everyone is a space wizard.

There is some dramatic potential, but you need to be really careful with it. Too many and you end up with fifty Jedi getting taken down by robots, or magic creatures that can block force use or a force sensitive droid or a dozen other bits of nonsense that wound up in the prequels and old EA.

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Lucas ruined the franchise? How? You can ignore the prequels, and it's not a stretch to say Disney are taking this forward because of the renewed interest.

Regarding other force "factions", that's something the EU explored. The witches on Dathomir (where rancors come from), for example. Untrained force sensitives tend to be gamblers, athletes, and the sort, where the insight could help.

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Finally saw this last night- it's not bad is it? Obviously it's fairly close to the original in terms of plot but there are some lovely sequences in it and a fair bit of excitement, probably the 3rd best Star Wars movie for me , got the casting spot on IMO.

Just wondering if they sneaked Jar-jar into a background shot somewhere for shits and giggles.

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Lucas ruined the franchise? How? You can ignore the prequels, and it's not a stretch to say Disney are taking this forward because of the renewed interest.

Regarding other force "factions", that's something the EU explored. The witches on Dathomir (where rancors come from), for example. Untrained force sensitives tend to be gamblers, athletes, and the sort, where the insight could help.

Even ignoring the Prequels, he ruined the Original Trilogy with the Special Editions and then again later on with the DVD/BD releases.

It'd be OK if you could also buy the unbastardised versions on DVD and BD, but you can't. The only official versions available on DVD, BD, and digital download are the altered ones.

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I understood that Lucas alone didn't create the original film or trilogy. Real fucking far from it. They were collaborations, and the importance of that can't be understated.

Once he got full control of them along came the various reprints / widescreen editions etc and then even later came the 'improved' versions that everyone resents buying.

There's an argument that if Lucas was somehow given full creative control from the very start the original films would probably have been pale shadows of what they are, judging from the cinematic travesties he produced once he was free of having to compromise and surrounded by sycophantic yes-men. Episode II probably wouldn't even have been green lit.

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Even ignoring the Prequels, he ruined the Original Trilogy with the Special Editions and then again later on with the DVD/BD releases.

It'd be OK if you could also buy the unbastardised versions on DVD and BD, but you can't. The only official versions available on DVD, BD, and digital download are the altered ones.

Yeah, that's fair enough. Some of his tinkering is awful. But you also said he ruined the franchise, which is what I was replying to specifically.

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I specifically initially said the Prequels ruined the franchise, and the SEs (etc.) ruined the OT. You then said ignore the Prequels, so I said again that even doing that, the SEs (etc.) still ruined the OT itself.

:) (well, actually " :( ", but you know what I mean )

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I'm glad there's no licensed direct adaptation, as it would in all likelihood have been utter shite, just like the vast majority of other licensed direct adaptations of things. It also probably would have been awkward, given the secrecy involved in making the film and given the schedules of the actors.

There haven't been any really good, deep Star Wars games since KOTOR. Games like TIE Fighter were simulators, and were amazing because of that, the Rogue Squadron games weren't even close in terms of immersion.

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There haven't been any really good, deep Star Wars games since KOTOR. Games like TIE Fighter were simulators, and were amazing because of that, the Rogue Squadron games weren't even close in terms of immersion.

No way, Rogue Squadron on the N64 was mind-blowing at the time, and then actually doing the trench run in Rogue Leader, a GC launch title, blew one's mind anew.

Sorry, off-topic.

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No way, Rogue Squadron on the N64 was mind-blowing at the time, and then actually doing the trench run in Rogue Leader, a GC launch title, blew one's mind anew.

Sorry, off-topic.

It was an arcade game though, not a simulator. In TIE Fighter you could manage energy settings, identify targets, there were proper mission briefings. I'm not saying Rogue Leader was a bad game, but it didn't have much depth, it was an arcade game. I'd like to see some new Star Wars games that take advantage of the universe to make something with depth that's new, not just trying to recreate scenes from the films.

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Rogue games were great for the spectacle, but TIE Fighter was just another level of immersion. The free-form nature of the battles. The Goldeneye style staggered mission objectives. The balance of shield, weapon, and speed that would require real reflexes in some of the later dog-fights. And the actually fantastic story of resurrection within the Empire. TIE Fighter absorbed me in a way no game of that era managed to do. I pretended to be ill so I could miss school and keep playing!

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I would love a total conversion of Elite Dangerous with ships, planets and some story elements from the SW universe (canon and EU). Powerplay could have the obvious Impy and Scum factions, as well as crime cartel controlled space like the Hutts and the Black Suns etc.

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X-Wing Alliance has been on GOG for a little while now and can be graphically patched to look very nice these days. there are also conversions for TIE Fighter missions and campaigns if I remember right...

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So I saw this the other day, and honestly, I didn't think much of it. It's no turd like any of the prequels but that's no complement.

I'm reminded of my friends who kept returning to the cinema to watch The Phantom Menace because they genuinely loved it. I'm reminded of all the overwhelmingly positive print reviews The Phantom Menace got upon release and box office records being broken.

JJ Abrams is the master of the utterly unremarkable, bland and unoriginal. Star Wars deserved much better than this.

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