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Star Wars: The Force Awakens

Captain Kelsten

By Captain Kelsten
in Film, TV & Radio

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Alex W.

Alex W.

Posted
Posted

Christ no. Prequels destroy mystery. I personally hate the idea of finding out how Han and Chewie met and got the Falcon because it makes the universe a little smaller.

Not set up, like, literally show you all the details of the Episode IV backstory as Lucas did. I mean show us a really cool, three-movie Star Wars story set in the galaxy before the Empire, during its golden age, and give us a feel for how it came to an end. Without actually directly engaging with any of the original trilogy storylines.

Basically make the prequel trilogy redundant. Like it already is.

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NecroMorrius

NecroMorrius

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It is pretty impressive how they have managed to get the hype machine firing everyone up into fits about this, despite the fact it all happened once before (well three times before. Four if you count Indy 4...) and we were all left crying and wailing bitterly. I would have thought that by the time they got to episode 7 everyone would be just a little bit cynical.

But I am really excited about this. Maybe more so than I was about Episode 1 (which, I seem to remember, we all started to get pretty suspicious about fairly early on - maybe when they unveiled Kid Annie, or when we learned what the subtitle was going to be).

But "they" were George Lucas and a gaggle of yes men. This time around "they" are a bunch of people with their heads screwed on straight, hearts full of passion and the knowledge of what a grand, scary undertaking this is.

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Timbuktu

Timbuktu

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I always felt bad for Spielberg in that situation, because you know he knows it's shit, but it's his best bud.

Maybe he's too nice or can't be bothered on every project, but as a producer Spielberg has let a lot of rubbish slide.

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makkuwata

makkuwata

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Huh. Thinking about that moment led me to Spielberg's Wookiepedia page.

During the animatics stage of of Star Wars: Episode III Revenge of the Sith, Lucas invited Spielberg to "play with" a bit of the Mustafar duel, and Yoda's duel with the Emperor, along with a couple of others," according to The Making of Star Wars Revenge of the Sith. It is unclear how much of Spielberg's work appears in the final version of the film, but he is credited as an Assistant Director.

I had no idea.

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Garibaldi

Garibaldi

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The dark side should be like crack cocaine to a Jedi. Suductive, hard to resist, and forever dominating your destiny once you have tasted its power. And you know hard to stop using once you have started...

Indeed. The prequels ineptly touched on this in places, but the dark side is where the real, raw power is. Of course the paradox is that this power can't be used to create, only to destroy. But given that the light side is a path of discipline and suggestion, its 'power' ephemeral in nature, then the dark will always appeal.

There's an interesting part in one of the Star Wars novels where Vader is meditating and attempting to heal his damaged lungs. He's powerful enough to do it, but the instant he starts breathing naturally then a sense of joy shuts down his abilities. The more he tries and fails, the more convinced he becomes that it's possible if only he has no emotional investment. Which is likely the mindset of every Jedi who fell, a sense of 'Others failed, but I bet they never tried this.'

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rubberducker

rubberducker

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Indeed. The prequels ineptly touched on this in places, but the dark side is where the real, raw power is. Of course the paradox is that this power can't be used to create, only to destroy. But given that the light side is a path of discipline and suggestion, its 'power' ephemeral in nature, then the dark will always appeal.

There's an interesting part in one of the Star Wars novels where Vader is meditating and attempting to heal his damaged lungs. He's powerful enough to do it, but the instant he starts breathing naturally then a sense of joy shuts down his abilities. The more he tries and fails, the more convinced he becomes that it's possible if only he has no emotional investment. Which is likely the mindset of every Jedi who fell, a sense of 'Others failed, but I bet they never tried this.'

i'm not familiar with the EU, but thats a nice way of looking at it - and infinitely more interesting than what George had in his head.

To me the Jedi path of being good or bad is basically central to the concept of Star Wars.

And the fact that the dark side is so ineptly handled in the prequels, leaves it wide open for the new films to interpret in a much more interesting way.

Scumbag+anakin+skywalker+seriously+he+s+

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TehStu

TehStu

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:lol:

I hope they're taking a critical look at the EU and picking out the nuggets, because they're clearly there to be had. Talented writers have explored concepts that clearly Lucas didn't have the skill to do.

Also, I didn't realize the Clone Wars series was canon, I assumed only Rebels was.

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Jug McKenzie

Jug McKenzie

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In all seriousness, it never ceases to amaze me how dependent sci-fi fans are on being told what's canon and what's not (this isn't aimed at anyone here btw.) It's science fiction. The stories are all made up, so why can't people decide for themselves what they want the canon to be? In my brain, the existing Star Wars prequels simply aren't canon. There may well be bits of each of the three films that I do like, but generally I think they're awful, and the universe-shrinking problems they introduced made it harder for me to enjoy the three OT movies that I really care about, so a couple of years ago I just decided to insert my own little canon twist in the form of the prequels being nothing more than a myth peddled by some untrustworthy in-universe character (maybe a briefly-seen Mos Eisley cantina patron.) And it works. I no longer watch The Empire Strikes Back thinking, 'fuck me, that's Hayden fucking Christensen telling Luke that he's his father' - instead I know for a fact that it's Sebastian Shaw under that helmet and it always has been.

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TehStu

TehStu

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In all seriousness, it never ceases to amaze me how dependent sci-fi fans are on being told what's canon and what's not (this isn't aimed at anyone here btw.) It's science fiction. The stories are all made up, so why can't people decide for themselves what they want the canon to be?

That's a fair point. I guess I only continue to mention it because, for example, we can't get another KOTOR unless Disney blesses (or reboots, I guess) the old republic stuff. It's more a consideration of what can be, in this context.

As far as enjoyment goes, yup, I think all the EU books I've read are great.

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Mogster

Mogster

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It's all made up, but some of the made up stuff "exists" in continuity while other stuff doesn't. It's arguably a more important concept in sci-fi/fantasy than it is in real world fiction as it informs the rules of the universe as well as the story.

Personally the only bit of prequel lore that bothers me is the midichlorian thing, which seems to have been rightfully swept under the rug anyway. Broadly speaking I'm fine with the rest of the actual events taking place, albeit not how they were written, acted and directed. I can't say I've ever worried about prequel actors when I watch the originals though, especially not in the despecialised editions.

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Nespresso

Nespresso

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Some more two cents: I hope this new trilogy does introduce some new ideas and concepts and not constantly shove familiar stuff in our faces. I mean BB8, for example, is just R2D2 in ball form and I get the feeling that the only reason it's '30 years after the original trilogy' is so they could put the same faces in there and reference the first films over and over again. I mean do we really need Harrison 'phoning it in' Ford and Princess Queen Leia again? In with the new, out with the old I say!

I'm still optimistic but so far all I've seen just screams fan service x1000. Even Battlefront puts Vader in there for no particular reason. I know he's an iconic character but his appearance makes no sense aside from the obvious marketing purposes I suppose.

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Mogster

Mogster

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Some more two cents: I hope this new trilogy does introduce some new ideas and concepts and not constantly shove familiar stuff in our faces. I mean BB8, for example, is just R2D2 in ball form and I get the feeling that the only reason it's '30 years after the original trilogy' is so they could put the same faces in there and reference the first films over and over again. I mean do we really need Harrison 'phoning it in' Ford and Princess Queen Leia again? In with the new, out with the old I say!

I'm still optimistic but so far all I've seen just screams fan service x1000. Even Battlefront puts Vader in there for no particular reason. I know he's an iconic character but his appearance makes no sense aside from the obvious marketing purposes I suppose.

I don't know. Both trailers so far have been pretty light on the fan-service to new stuff ratio, and there are a whole bunch of new characters as well as the familiar faces. This is "Episode VII" after all, and there are at least three other films being made that tell their own stories.

Anyway if Rebels is any indication, Disney know how to handle fan-service sparingly and effectively without it ever feeling forced.

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makkuwata

makkuwata

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It's all made up, but some of the made up stuff "exists" in continuity while other stuff doesn't. It's arguably a more important concept in sci-fi/fantasy than it is in real world fiction as it informs the rules of the universe as well as the story.

Personally the only bit of prequel lore that bothers me is the midichlorian thing, which seems to have been rightfully swept under the rug anyway. Broadly speaking I'm fine with the rest of the actual events taking place, albeit not how they were written, acted and directed. I can't say I've ever worried about prequel actors when I watch the originals though, especially not in the despecialised editions.

Midichlorian's are terrible and maybe the worst thing about the prequels, but I do have a small degree of sympathy for George regarding them. He had in mind that some yet unrealised super bad ass master-of-the-emperor used them to create Anakin. He probably finished the script for Episode 1 pleased as punch about the twist he was going to pull on people. Unfortunately he's a terrible writer and everyone naturally hated the force being robbed of some mysticism and I doubt more than 5% of people who saw Episode 3 could tell you who Anakin's "dad" is.

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Nespresso

Nespresso

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I don't know. Both trailers so far have been pretty light on the fan-service to new stuff ratio, and there are a whole bunch of new characters as well as the familiar faces. This is "Episode VII" after all, and there are at least three other films being made that tell their own stories.

Anyway if Rebels is any indication, Disney know how to handle fan-service sparingly and effectively without it ever feeling forced.

Ah you're right, forgot about the stand alone ones! I guess in that case, there's something for everyone.

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rubberducker

rubberducker

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Midichlorian's are terrible and maybe the worst thing about the prequels, but I do have a small degree of sympathy for George regarding them. He had in mind that some yet unrealised super bad ass master-of-the-emperor used them to create Anakin. He probably finished the script for Episode 1 pleased as punch about the twist he was going to pull on people. Unfortunately he's a terrible writer and everyone naturally hated the force being robbed of some mysticism and I doubt more than 5% of people who saw Episode 3 could tell you who Anakin's "dad" is.

Joking aside, George obviously cared about the prequels, or he could have just sold the franchise on eons ago - and not embarked on the painful journey of making them.

the fact he cared about them, makes some of his creative decisions, EVEN more puzzling. And as a result his reputation turned from creative Genius to creative Joke in the space of just a few years. he's not stupid or above winding up fans either. so you wonder where his head was at as he made them. i suspect he started to believe his own hype about being part of cinema history as it moved to digital and his focus was on how much CAN we make digitally - as opposed to how much SHOULD we make digitally. And as result the story and characters became almost secondary.

And despite that I still love the idea of Star Wars - which is why the new saga excites me so much,.

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glb

glb

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Read that and just pictured Dr Ian Malcolm, 'Yeah, yeah, but your scientists were so preoccupied with whether or not they could that they didn't stop to think if they should.'

Then again, another Malcolm quote could perhaps be better applied to the prequels. 'That is one big pile of shit.'

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