Star Wars: The Force Awakens

[Alex W.]

Yeah, it's an ILM signature explosion. Who knows how a Death Star would blow up, but it looked super odd when Praxis exploded.

At the time that Praxis blast was the coolest SF movie explosion ever. Now it's played out and sleeping on Bullet Time's sofa, waiting for ILM to call.

[TehStu]

Oh it looked superb, but I'd argue for a huge reactor blowing up like that over a moon (that's no moon, etc).

[Davros sock drawer]

4) Eh?

I mean that uniformity is uninteresting. It's an interesting little quirk of the film that the way they did the Emperor changed. It's part of the charm of the original.

2) Nothing in that make-up couldn't have been achieved in 1979 if Ian McDiarmid had already been cast.

Also I meant the way it's filmed, nothing to do with the make up. The obvious modernity of the effect in the new version jars.

[Darren]

Also correct me if I'm wrong, but doesn't the version of that scene with McDiarmid also include the rewritten and very clunky dialogue? I much prefer the original version, shonky effects and all.

[Jumble Jumble]

Yeah, I like the old Emperor in that scene for historical interest reasons too. It's not a problem that needed fixing, it's just a difference. I mean, the things they "fixed" in the Blade Runner Final Cut, even though they did some really quite dramatic things, were all just getting rid of jarring problems. The only thing they changed that people might be upset about (although I never did hear of anyone) was they brightened a lot of the background so that you could see the production design a bit better.

Changing Palpatine's face in ESB is, to me, a (much) less-bad version of putting Christensen in Jedi. So much less bad that I really don't give a shit one way or the other. I mean, the new one looks better from a purely objective standpoint, in that it looks like the Emperor instead of a weird mask. But it doesn't matter and it didn't need to be fixing. But I don't prefer the old way. All this stuff should just be available as DVD or Blu-Ray special features - "see the old Emperor face, along with footage explaining how it was done". But no, not allowed.

I mean really instead of that stupid monkey thing they should have just done a hood that was black inside with no discernible face at all.

[K]

There was one change to Blade Runner that annoyed people - they switched Roy Baty's line of dialogue from "I want more life, fucker" to "I want more life, father", which made an implicit theme patronisingly explicit. That was the one bit where Scott crossed the Lucas barrier. Although I have similar feelings about the shot of the dove flying off at the end, where the switched the blue sky out for a CGI render of the city, which on one level is clearly just fixing a poorly executed shot in the original, and on another level is an interesting and unconventional shot, even if it was a total accident.

But yeah, I like that original shot of the emperor as well. It exists as a kind of vestigial remnant of some parallel universe version of the Star Wars trilogy – a weirder, darker version that I can vaguely imagine when I’m watching the original ESB.

[Jumble Jumble]

Oh yeah, I forgot about the father thing. Who calls someone "fucker" anyway? But yeah, that was weird. I like the new dove shot, the old one was so jarring.

Anyway try reading the blade runner books set after the film. They are the worst thing in the world.

[makkuwata]

My feelings on the SE tamperings are on a case by case basis.

Putting Ian McDiarmid into Empire: Good. He's the Emperor. He always was the Emperor in the popular consciousness, and the original take looked awful.

Putting Hayden Christensen into Jedi: Bad. Why is he young again? George stop hiring people who are afraid to say no.

I hate the idea of lusting after the original just because it was the original. Lucas did a lot of dumb stuff in the remakes, but he made a lot of improvements. The non-monkeyface Emperor is one of them.

[Fury4k]

I think George Lucas explained best himself the problems with meddling with films in this way.

"A copyright is held in trust by its owner until it ultimately reverts to public domain. American works of art belong to the American public; they are part of our cultural history.

People who alter or destroy works of art and our cultural heritage for profit or as an exercise of power are barbarians, and if the laws of the United States continue to condone this behavior, history will surely classify us as a barbaric society. The preservation of our cultural heritage may not seem to be as politically sensitive an issue as "when life begins" or "when it should be appropriately terminated," but it is important because it goes to the heart of what sets mankind apart. Creative expression is at the core of our humanness. Art is a distinctly human endeavor. We must have respect for it if we are to have any respect for the human race.

These current defacements are just the beginning. Today, engineers with their computers can add color to black-and-white movies, change the soundtrack, speed up the pace, and add or subtract material to the philosophical tastes of the copyright holder. Tommorrow, more advanced technology will be able to replace actors with "fresher faces," or alter dialogue and change the movement of the actor's lips to match. It will soon be possible to create a new "original" negative with whatever changes or alterations the copyright holder of the moment desires. The copyright holders, so far, have not been completely diligent in preserving the original negatives of films they control. In order to reconstruct old negatives, many archivists have had to go to Eastern bloc countries where American films have been better preserved.

In the future it will become even easier for old negatives to become lost and be "replaced" by new altered negatives. This would be a great loss to our society. Our cultural history must not be allowed to be rewritten."

http://savestarwars.com/doasisay.html

[makkuwata]

It's infuriating that George holds that stance and yet for years refused to let people see the original cuts of his movies. But so long as those original cuts are now allowed to be sold and viewed...it doesn't stop some of his "director cuts" from being improvements.

He's mad and lost in his own head, but Star Wars isn't a historical classic, it's an ongoing and evolving franchise. The main cast from 40 years ago will be reprising their roles this year. A nip and a tuck isn't sacrilege. At least it wouldn't be if he wasn't so stubborn and terrible at interacting with fans and the press.

[Harsin]

They should have put a CGI Tom Cruise in The Hustler when The Colour of Money came out.

[Space Renegade Ulala]

Artists re-tweaking their work is rarely an improvement. Nine times out of ten, such alterations add little or nothing (holy shit, have any of you seen Brian Bolland's recolouring of The Killing Joke? Way to suck the life out of it) yet still, when it's the actual original artist/creator, I respect their decision to do so while not necessarily agreeing with it. George's point in the earlier post is clearly more aimed at faceless corporations and third parties with no original artistic input messing around with classics for no reason other than pure profit, such as Ted Turner's godawful black and white colourisation spree in the late 80s/early 90s. There's a hell of a difference between someone creating art and later wanting to tweak that smudge that always infuriated them and you doing your own photoshop job on it because you didn't like an aspect of their work.

All we can do is just

as best we can.

[Smitty]

Nah, fuck that attitude. The guy is aware how much it means to people. Y'know the people who made him a billionaire.

If he wants to change what he made, thats fine. He can do as many new editions as he likes. The problem comes when he decides that his new versions should be the only versions you can get. When he shows contempt for his audience.

It's fucking mind boggling how childish it is. It's so ridiculous to deny the fans what they want.

It amazes me that he decided to act like this. He could have put different versions out. Everyone would be happy. People could choose. Lots of money would be made.

To add to that his versions have their own problems - how the fuck has harmy and co managed better colour levels and contrast etc than a multi million dollar company putting out the premier release (the blu ray)of a billion dollar series?

It's such a bizarre state of affairs that this beloved trilogy can only be viewed as (mostly) originally intended AND with better transfer work, on a torrented work by passionate individuals.

George Lucas deserves a slap. Idiot.

[RFT]

Artists re-tweaking their work is rarely an improvement. Nine times out of ten, such alterations add little or nothing (holy shit, have any of you seen Brian Bolland's recolouring of The Killing Joke? Way to suck the life out of it) .

I liked the new version of killing joke. I saw it as more of a director's cut thing as he didn't do the original colouring- he wasn't (mostly) changing his own work.

[Jug McKenzie]

I just watched the despecialised ANH, or just Star Wars. Fucking amazing!! There were one or two noticable editing moments, but other than that it was near flawless. So much better than the shite DVDs I bought ten years ago. Fucking fuck the fucking Blu-Rays with all that shit meddling, Christensen's gormless mug, and added NNNNOOOOOOOO!! FUCK THE FUCK OFF!!

I'd happily hand over money for blu-rays of the originals. Come on, Disney, sort it!!

I hope I'm right about this; basically 2015 has to be the ideal time for the original versions to get a Blu-Ray release, as from next year there's going to be at least one major Star Wars film release on Blu-Ray every year already. If they want to maximise sales, build up the hype for TFA and avoid clashing with other releases from 2016 onwards then it's got to be now. Fingers crossed we get confirmation in May!

[Fury4k]

That's the thing with the Star Wars changes too. A lot of the work and art changed wasn't created by George Lucas in the first place. Films are a collaborative effort afterall. He may have had final sign off on a lot of stuff, but he didn't do all the design work, or casting, shooting, editing, music composition, or even the writing and directing. So where then does his moral right to change those aspects come from?

[TehStu]

Have Fox made any noise at all about the originals getting a BR release? It's not a trivial task, didn't the negatives combust last time they were scanned, or something?

[Smitty]

Have Fox made any noise at all about the originals getting a BR release? It's not a trivial task, didn't the negatives combust last time they were scanned, or something?

No, George eat them.

[TehStu]

I hadn't heard anything, and read the right places where it would be reported. I suspect Fox putting the work in is a bit hopeful.

[glb]

Fox still hold distribution rights of the existing films for a few more years (bar A New Hope, which they hold in perpetuity), but depends if Disney want to push the project as don't imagine, even with distribution rights, Fox can do much without the House of Mouse's approval.

Releasing the original prints would be amazing fan service, but do wonder how commercially viable doing so would be. Also, as others have said, some of the later tweaks have improved the films, albeit each of us probably has a different view of what works and what doesn't.

Would still buy the originals on BD, but probably more chance of Lucas directing episode 8 right now.

[Glasgowchivas]

The original, untouched films won't see the light of day until Disney buy Fox outright. Something which is a lot more possible these days than not. See the whole Marvel?Sony Spider-Man deal for example when one of the options that Disney was exploring was to outright buy Sony Entertainment Pictures from Sony, in order to dispense with any sharing.

[Alex W.]

I imagine they'll wait until at least the first sequel movie is out before doing any home video releases. There's already a pretty packed Star Wars schedule coming up for the cinema and they'll be wary of using up the interest ahead of time.

[Lovelyman]

It wouldn't be that hard to have branching so that you can choose which changes you want to watch. I guess that's a lot of work though.

[Fury4k]

They did that on the x men 1.5 dvd. That would be a good solution .

[Jumble Jumble]

It wouldn't be that hard to have branching so that you can choose which changes you want to watch. I guess that's a lot of work though.

Yeah, I was fantasising this morning about that. You get a menu from which you can pick whatever version of whatever scene you want, and then you get the full film as you'd prefer it. Would be totally doable with streaming of course, a bit stupid to do it physically. But it'd still be quite a lot of work with a pretty small market.

[Hanzo the Razor]

Disney may hold back any big OT re-release until the 40th anniversary in 2017.

[Sarlaccfood]

Would Fox even need Disney?

They would be mad to not profit off the back of all the Star Wars hype around this Christmas.

Let Disney do the advertising for them.

[TehStu]

Can Fox re-release stuff without Disney?

As an aside, I never understood why more films didn't take the T2 DVD approach of mixing scenes in and out to allow you to watch each version. Although the Blade Runner box set was pretty good for different versions, albeit on different discs. Perhaps only certain directors care enough to force the issue, because it's obviously more work.

[Stig]

These are the least edited DVDs aren't they?

http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/aw/d/B000FMH8UI/ref=aw_wl_ov_dp_1_4?colid=K124WSA31HVK&coliid=IXFEJ0MM2CU31

http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/aw/d/B000FMH8US/ref=aw_wl_ov_dp_1_2?colid=K124WSA31HVK&coliid=I34GVW3K760HFW

http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/aw/d/B000FMRYNE/ref=aw_wl_ov_dp_1_3?colid=K124WSA31HVK&coliid=I1A1KL0E1MFMGL

[JohnC]

Yes, but IIRC they won't look so good. They're just a copy of the Laserdiscs and I think letterboxed in such a way that on a widescreen TV the image will have big borders on all four sides, so you're watching a little window in the middle of the screen. Unless you zoom in, which deteriorates the picture further.