Star Wars: The Force Awakens

[Jug McKenzie]

Oscar Isaac with some very encouraging things to say about the physical nature of the TFA sets (instead of CGI) from around 2:30 to 5:30:

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=0g0nmXZx2M0

[jonamok]

You'll find out how it pans out in the cinema when you see the film. That's how seeing films works, you see.

This level of anticipation and people still want to spoil the experience for themselves. Remarkable.

I was hoping you would spoil an important part of it for me in a different thread...

[Smitty]

I was hoping you would spoil an important part of it for me in a different thread...

I apologise. I literally don't think of it as a spoiler at the time I posted it, sorry. In retrospect it clearly is. My mistake. I would never want to spoil things intentionally.

[jonamok]

Fair enough.

[superfunk]

If Lucas had acknowledged that he hated writing why didn't he pay someone to write the prequels based on his ill-defined notes?

[JoeK]

Probably under some misguided belief that he felt obligated to because it was his baby.

That really didn't pan out so well.

[rubberducker]

If Lucas had acknowledged that he hated writing why didn't he pay someone to write the prequels based on his ill-defined notes?

there were ghost writers allegedly, tom stoppard and others.

but it seems like lucas was bizarrely locked on a one man crusade to use hideously dated acting styles, terrible writing and creating everything artificially - to create films that pleased only him. critics be damned.

he may be arrogant, but he isn't stupid. his choices must have had purpose. why make something deliberately bad? which if you listen to him in early interviews is a direction he consciously choose to go.

[b00dles]

It could have just been the ultimate troll - purposely make them a bit shit and full of CG (so cheaper?) and then see if he still completely rakes it in.

And he did!

[rubberducker]

The moment John Knoll first revealed Jar Jar to the crew on set:

[Mr Cochese]

Ha. You've totally already posted that.

[Scratchy Bollock]

I just think Lucas, like many of his contemporaries (Including guys like Brian DePalma and Coppola), just kind of lost his skill as a filmmaker over time. This isn't uncommon, not a lot of directors have the durability of Scorsese. It's the combination of creative burnout and loss of objectivity as a result of too much success.

The idea that Lucas was a lucky, talentless director is mental though. THX, American Graffiti and Star Wars are all fantastic films and he was also much more responsible for a lot of Empire than people gave him credit for. Filmmaking is an entirely collaborative medium and the good directors are the ones that understand and embrace this. Ultimately, Lucas still signed off on better ideas presented to him by his editors, performers, production designers etc, and rejected ideas that didn't work, and that really is a huge part of a directors job.

He also deserves credit for all of the work he did on the technical side of the industry, from CG and the formation of ILM and Pixar to sound innovations.

That said, the prequels are shockingly bad and the new films are far better off without his input.

[b00dles]

I can't fault his contribution to the medium at all, it's just interesting that the prequels turned out as they did. Even some of the techniques he used to shoot the prequels have proved invaluable to the industry as a whole.

I think it's just curious that someone that clearly does (or did, in the recesses of his mind) know how to direct and so on, just made them in a particular way and didn't listen to anyone else. I'd be very interested to see what his take on the backlash to the prequels have been. In some of the behind the scenes stuff you can see that he's asking questions about various things at times and everyone is being sycophantic, presumably cos it's George and it's his baby.

I've no idea if previously he blew up at people for questioning his ideas or something but the bit that struck me was when discussing the Yoda fight with I think Rick Berman (it's on the plinkett reviews) he mentions something along the lines of 'everyone wants to see Yoda jumping about and kicking ass don't they' and Rick's face looks worried as fuck but he just agrees anyway.

The thing is, he presumably showed it to Speilberg and the likes as well (I'd have thought) and it's almost surprising that no-one at any point was a bit more wary of the dialogue and acting style being not only quite different to the original trilogy (although they are also undeniably hammy at times) but just a bit shit.

[ZOK]

The thing is, it's easy to say these things were bound to be crap after the event. I mean, what's the old Hollywood addage, no-one knows anything? The majority of people crewing on Star Wars probably thought it would be a turkey, until it wasn't.

So I think that you would have to be extraordinarily brave and sure of yourself to parp up to the guy who has created an SF colossus that he is getting it totally wrong when creating another SF colossus.

And it's not like the prequels lost money, after all.

[b00dles]

Fair point.

You'd probably trust him really. I suppose considering how green screen heavy it was, on set you might not really have a clue and yeah, you'd probably not want to risk losing your job by suggesting to George Lucas he might be going a bit loopy.

[rubberducker]

there was a lot of rumblings from staff at lucasfilm that the prequels were being made because it was the only surefire thing lucasfilm had left in the vaults. The big profit FX business was in decline and indiana jones was locked up with harrison ford. George had spent a lot of money building his empire and his ex wife had also claimed a lot of the Star Wars fortune. so he kind of needed to make the prequels when he did.

and he had a team of yes men surrounding him that actually referred to him "un-ironically" as Yoda. its a shame, because it became all about him, rather than focussing on the creative collaboration - which had worked rather brilliantly for the earlier films.

[gizmo1990]

and he had a team of yes men surrounding him that actually referred to him "un-ironically" as Yoda.

That for me was the absolute key to the whole sorry prequel saga. Lucas simply had no restrictions to constrain himself. No one to suggest script changes. Or watch dailies and say 'George this isn't working'

[Lag]

.. you'd probably not want to risk losing your job by suggesting to George Lucas he might be going a bit loopy.

That's like what they said at Nuremberg and it was no excuse then!

[PK]

Just out of interest, aside from that theory put forward in one of the Mr Plinkett reviews, is there any evidence that Lucas "had nobody to tell him no" or that most of the crew involved in the prequels knew they were going to be shit?

I've never actually read any detailed, negative accounts of the filming process of the prequels - the only thing I've heard was a quote from Ewan McGregor where he says something like "there's the Star Wars films I loved as a kid, and then there's the ones I was in". Would be really interested in reading some if anyone has links

[TehStu]

Having no "No" people would certainly help explain the mess of continuity between prequels and originals. Even putting aside feelings on the story itself, for someone keen on continually editing the films so that they flow as a single narrative, there are so many discontinuities* that it's almost comical. It's too extraordinary to think that multiple people in the production process didn't spot this stuff. It's crazy that it made sense to Lucas, but then who knows what the hell he was thinking.

*we watched ANH recently, first time in a while. My wife and I were constantly "hang, what about X" or "but earlier Y happens, that doesn't make sense."

[Chocky]

Just out of interest, aside from that theory put forward in one of the Mr Plinkett reviews, is there any evidence that Lucas "had nobody to tell him no" or that most of the crew involved in the prequels knew they were going to be shit?

I've never actually read any detailed, negative accounts of the filming process of the prequels - the only thing I've heard was a quote from Ewan McGregor where he says something like "there's the Star Wars films I loved as a kid, and then there's the ones I was in". Would be really interested in reading some if anyone has links

The making of episode I documentary with the DVD mentioned earlier really highlights the unease of the process.

[kensei]

The prequels get way too much flack. They have some script issues, some pacing issues, too much CGI and mixed acting. They also have some cool ideas, some decent scenes and are for the most part perfectly watchable. Some of the spin off stuff is more interesting than the movie. That doesn't really differ from most blockbusters made since the late 90s. They are average. I mean, they never gave me a Transformers 3 style headache, for a start.

The original trilogy was so much more though. So the films get labeled as complete turkeys, Lucas gets tagged as a fool and the whole thing is endlessly over psycho analysed. Because it's Star Wars.

I'm glad there is a change of direction. I think Lucas probably wasn't challenged enough, and by the end is heart seemed less in it. Its really hard to do something of that scope for that long and remain creative and invested and fresh and the rest. Game of Thrones has taken a dip post Storm of Swords, Harry Potter sagged a bit towards the end etc. So a change should help all that.

But JJ Abrams made Star Trek Into Darkness. It has pacing issues, plot issues, variable acting and so on despite a few good scenes. I genuinely think it's worse than the Star Wars prequels and would watch any of them in front of it. I don't think that JJ is an idiot, doesn't understand filmmaking, has control issued and the rest. He just made a movie I didn't really like. This might still be good. I hope it is. But it might very well be another middling modern blockbuster. I think people need to be cool with that possibility. The OT will still be great films.

[rubberducker]

no one should be expecting citizen kane. but want a film set in the Star Wars universe that has the same kind of energy as the first three films. and doing that in that formula will make a lot of people happy - especially if it convincingly brings back three of the most iconic films roles as the set up and support. and if those films then go off and mess with the formula in new and interesting ways for episode 8,9,10,11 and 12 all the better.

As for the spin offs. I can't see them holding my attention for that long. but I'm happy to be surprised.

[Nespresso]

I'm still baffled that we're living in a universe where one director does both Star Wars and Star Trek. I mean... wut?

[Alex W.]

You do have to wonder if Abrams wasn't really distracted and thought he was signing on for a three-picture Star Wars job when he was actually agreeing to do Star Trek.

[Jumble Jumble]

Sorry but the prequels aren't "average", they're bad films.

[rubberducker]

they're shit. and seemingly deliberately so.

[Venice Cull]

http://www.amazon.co.uk/How-Star-Wars-Conquered-Universe/dp/1480532525

Fantastic book I've just read. Pretty epic. Starts with Lucas as a kid, and ends with him signing Starwars over to disney. Very comprehensive, and doesn't pull punches (often questioning the official 'Lucas' version of events).

Highly recommended.

[kensei]

Sorry but the prequels aren't "average", they're bad films.

Sorry but the prequels aren't "bad" they are just average.

All in IMHO of course. Is this productive?

[sandman]

I watched Episode 3 a week or so back. I still think its a great film (I may have mentioned this already a few pages back) and if its let down by anything its McDiarmid's terrible acting once he reveals his true nature.

Yes, Anakins turn to the dark side is rushed and poorly handled. But so much of the film is excellent.

[Glasgowchivas]

I watched Episode 3 a week or so back. I still think its a great film (I may have mentioned this already a few pages back) and if its let down by anything its McDiarmid's terrible acting once he reveals his true nature.

Yes, Anakins turn to the dark side is rushed and poorly handled. But so much of the film is excellent.

Fuck off, McDiarmid is the only one who's trying to give his performance a bit of life. He's a bit campy, aye but I'd rather that than lifeless.

McGregor manages to do it three times in 'Episode 3'. First when he gives the "Another happy landing" line, which was obviously ad-libbed and left in, which you can see by the uncharacteristic beaming smile that he's sporting. Second, when he kicks Grevious in the balls and hurts his foot and gives out a giant, Scottish shout of pain and lastly, at the very end when he's standing over what's left of Anakin and giving his big speech; it's genuinely great.

The rest is just stilted garbage.