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Star Wars: The Force Awakens

Captain Kelsten

By Captain Kelsten
in Film, TV & Radio

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Rev

Rev

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Posted

Yeah, I thought those shots were great and I really like the update of the Stormtrooper helmet design. But it got me thinking about something that's long bothered me.

Can a Star Wars mega fan explain the in-universe explanation (if there is one) for why the Stormtroopers wear such bulky and impractical armour when it doesn't seem to offer ANY protection against even the most basic blaster? Why do they have such a design when it offers zero protection against the weapons that are ubiquitous in the universe? I've always wondered about that.

Visually it's a great design of course but from a functionality perspective they don't seem to make any sense at all. I could understand them if they ever seemed to reflect any sort of weapon fire but they don't and every Stormtrooper goes down with what seems to be an insta-kill single shot every single time even from 'mere' pistols.

They do offer protection from blasters. They wear a bodyglove underneath that dissipates the damage, so they might not be dead when they go down. Stuns get reflected entirely. They're environmental protection (weather, poisons, vacuums) and protection from kinetic weapons really.

It's a bit like Obi-Wan's comment on precision blaster use against the sandcrawler. The armour was good and the troopers were accurate, it just didn't seem that way in the films...

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macosx

macosx

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Yeah, I thought those shots were great and I really like the update of the Stormtrooper helmet design. But it got me thinking about something that's long bothered me.

Can a Star Wars mega fan explain the in-universe explanation (if there is one) for why the Stormtroopers wear such bulky and impractical armour when it doesn't seem to offer ANY protection against even the most basic blaster? Why do they have such a design when it offers zero protection against the weapons that are ubiquitous in the universe? I've always wondered about that.

Visually it's a great design of course but from a functionality perspective they don't seem to make any sense at all. I could understand them if they ever seemed to reflect any sort of weapon fire but they don't and every Stormtrooper goes down with what seems to be an insta-kill single shot every single time even from 'mere' pistols.

I mean, you start off thinking that they have this thick armour because its designed to block blaster fire and that's the only design that can protect against lasers/plasma but then you see that it doesn't seem to offer any protection at all.

I'm glad someone else feels like this. Has always really spoiled my enjoyment of these fantasy films

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Vulgar Monkey

Vulgar Monkey

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Smitty, isnt it meant to be another part of the whole Empire military ethos - cheap, cheerful mass produced bollocks because your recruits are cunts you dont care about in the slightest? Just look at the tie fighters.

As for what the armour IS good for....I find it hard to resist referencing the famous stormtrooper head-bump. :)

But yeah, maybe there is other stuff it's good against that therefore doesnt get used anymore, but because you therefore DON'T see such weapons you dont consider it. Old-skool ballistic weapons for example.

I'm struggling to remember how handy the ewoks were with sharp sticks though. :s

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Rev

Rev

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Well, no, they don't. I'm talking about the films here. The films are the universe for me, or should I say the only part of the universe that counts (I've played Star Wars stuff, watched the cartoon etc). Everything else follows on from the films.

Anyway, in those films the armour offers no protection against blasters.

How many troopers did you see die in the films, rather than be knocked down/out? I can only think of a very small number. The dissipation can still knock them down, in the same way a bullet-proof vest can allow a soldier to be knocked down.

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macosx

macosx

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a fucking stupid thought Smitty

Star Wars is based on the pulp serials like Flash Gordon, hence the derring-do swing across the chasm, the text trail at the start etc.

When you start to question the validity of stormtrooper armour against made-up blaster fire......you need to step back a bit / stop trolling, or start writing scripts for a Channel 5 science show

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InsideOutBoy

InsideOutBoy

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Seems to me the plot will be that young girl and young Stormtrooper kid get a sudden twinge in the Force (aka it awakens in a new generation - there must be some reason why nobody in the original trilogy had the force but loads did in the prequels). That awakening is probably Luke Skywalker calling them to some Jedi Temple to train to be bad asses. The girl is maybe related to Han and Leia, a runaway kid type of character, hence Han goes off to help her get there.

No idea what stupid saber guy was about. Maybe he's been awakened too but it went a bit tits up. I can give his sabre a pass as I remember everybody thinking Darth Maul's saber was ridiculous 15 years ago, and it is, but it's now cannon that the bad guy has a stupid weapon.

I was quite surprised how JJ the whole thing looked. The guy really does have a visual style.

EDIT: One thing that pisses me already is if this film is brilliant - you know it's going to end on a motherfucker of a cliffhanger.

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Vulgar Monkey

Vulgar Monkey

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Perhaps there's no justification. Perhaps hordes of robotic looking anonymous soldiers with guns was meant to look intimidating. The dramatic name lends to this.

Well that's the other thing, it sounds very empire-y that they'd want an army of totally homogenous troops, a symbolic representation of their might, and also the discipline that comes with uniformity. You dont even get to have a face until you're an officer, you are not an individual. I mean, this is an organisation that literally had an army of clones ffs.

It does make me think of older civilisations that might have pushed symbolism in the army a little beyond practicality. Maybe some eastern cultures?

But yeah, I agree with smitty that it'd be nice to see more variation. The games were always ok with that but that's an obvious game design necessity.

Not sold on the saber either, but tbh the sabers were always so impractical as a concept that there isnt much point splitting hairs on them. :lol:

edit:

No idea what stupid saber guy was about. Maybe he's been awakened too but it went a bit tits up.

I could see that being a danger if someone is 'awakened' but goes through their formative years without any guidance, yeah.

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TehStu

TehStu

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No, it has much less to do with any sense of realism than it does making sense in the context of the universe/rules as established in the fantasy universe. Again this is a straw man - 'Smitty thinks Star Wars should be realistic' - when I'm not saying anything of the sort.

People didn't like the trade disputes because they were realistic, they hated them because they poorly presented, overly complex and thusly boring. You could actually make tense and exciting scenes out of the idea that i've presented by comparison. I've always thought it a shame that the original films made the Stormtroopers - the main force of a galaxy-crushing army - seem so rubbish.

OK, couldn't remember why people didn't like the trade dispute.

I'm not sure what rules are established in the original films. What sort of things do you mean?

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Vulgar Monkey

Vulgar Monkey

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Yeah, that's another thing about their uniformity, even the armour doesnt allow for much deviation, perhaps hence the 'too short' line.

You look at modern armours and a lot of it is very modular, multi-layered, full of straps and adjustable segments. Being cast from a single solid piece suggests that a stormtrooper would have to be a certain build, to some degree, could maybe get different sizes but would be lucky to get one that was a perfect fit. I cant see the empire doing bespoke fittings for them. :P

Variation in the stormtroopers specifically? Because we had the snowtroopers and the biker scouts in Empire and Jedi respectively

Well yeah, pretty much. Just different designs for distinct roles / environs.

Actually, why are we seeing stormtroopers at all anyway? Is JJ going with the whole 'remnant' type thing from eu?

edit:

Just spotted that the sabre has electricity/lightning type effects arcing along its length. Dunno if that's due to the snow or not but it's a nice touch.

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TehStu

TehStu

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I'm speaking to the general concept of 'rules' being 'established' in creative 'universes' rather than Star Wars in particular. But as for how that relates to Star Wars i've already said above - the main weapon around seems to be variations of laser guns and the armour seems largely ineffective against that. I'm just thinking about the context.

Along the same lines you don't need to be familiar with the EU to work out for yourself that part of the Jedi's skill lays in utilising the force in order to carefully control the light sabre, a weapon which seems perilously dangerous to the user otherwise. They have awareness and grace....it can be justified with this reasonable explanation.

To the last bit, quite so. That's why it'll be really interesting to see what becomes of those additional blades.

Assuming that armor should protect against what appears to be the most common type of weapon supposes the soldiers are worth something. Ignoring their genesis as a pot of clones, perhaps they're considered expendable. That's not unreasonable, given they have impersonal designations like TK-421.

You can't draw on general sci-fi stuff, the universe is just the first three films.

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Darren

Darren

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Perhaps but knights armour actually offered some protection against the weapon the wearer of the armour faced. That's why they wore it.

Perhaps the in-universe rules are that nothing can deflect lasers, except other lasers (i.e. lightsabers) so you've either got to have a suit of armour made entirely out of lightsabers or accept that there's no point even trying to deflect lasers, in which case you might as well have the lightest, cheapest "armour" you can get because its only purpose is to instil a sense of compliance in its wearers and fearers alike.

On the other hand, as an eight year old watching it on release such questions never crossed my mind. And the only reason we're even discussing it now is because that kids' film was so staggeringly successful. But it was conceived and realised as a big-budget version of the old Saturday morning kids' serials that George himself loved when he was eight. So it might seem glib but it's true: it doesn't have to make sense because it's aimed at kids. If you want your sci-fi to be internally consistent and logically coherent, then these aren't the films you're looking for.

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Lag

Lag

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On the other hand, as an eight year old watching it on release such questions never crossed my mind. And the only reason we're even discussing it now is because that kids' film was so staggeringly successful. But it was conceived and realised as a big-budget version of the old Saturday morning kids' serials that George himself loved when he was eight. So it might seem glib but it's true: it doesn't have to make sense because it's aimed at kids. If you want your sci-fi to be internally consistent and logically coherent, then these aren't the films you're looking for.

Such questions crossed my mind as an eight year old.

But I was a precocious child - for example, by then I had built a protocol droid to help mum with the housework.

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Vulgar Monkey

Vulgar Monkey

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Along the same lines you don't need to be familiar with the EU to work out for yourself that part of the Jedi's skill lays in utilising the force in order to carefully control the light sabre, a weapon which seems perilously dangerous to the user otherwise. They have awareness and grace....it can be justified with this reasonable explanation.

I wouldnt put it past Abrams to address this directly, hopefully in a scene where some ne'er-do-well somehow gets hold of a sabre, fiddles with it, and immediately lops his own legs off.

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pulsemyne

pulsemyne

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The lightsabre thing really hints at the fact that it's not going to be any of the stupid moronic lightsabre twirling, wire fest that the prequels were. Instead its more a case of it being proper swordfighting, claymore style against the more rapier style. That should add something more to the fight scenes. Power against precision etc.

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