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Official Star Wars Thread - May the force be with you


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TLJ May have been irreverent but it built on TFA and expanded the franchise in its own way. Rey from nowhere, force-sensitive non-family members and the concept of balance are the best (only??) concepts in the entire (not really a) trilogy. Also, Rose gives the best line in any of them in my opinion.

Quote

We're going to win this war not by fighting what we hate, but saving what we love!

 

:hug:

 

RoS in contrast is like taking an E, going on a Wurlitzer while drinking a giant milkshake and then rolling down a hill in a bin listening to Radio Goo-Goo. Seemed fun at the time but on reflection made no sense at all.

 

Duel of the Fates, in its first-draft script form, builds on TFA, TLJ and also respects the OT. Most importantly it gives a great send-off to the entire series at the end. The lack of Carrie Fisher could have been worked around as the film  scripts main focus is on Rose and Finn’s adventures, Rey and Poe’s adventures and the character development of Rey and Kylo. Leia has some good scenes, none of which couldn’t have been done with either another character, CGI (the side-on Leia/R2 call-back would have been lovely even without any dialogue) or removed completely. The ultimate 

Spoiler

redemption of Kylo

has Leia at its core but even that would have required no more than a dreamy Leia moment, or use of different characters altogether. Far more important to the script than Leia is Luke, which was apparently one reason Trevorrow was sacked as DotF relied heavily on him,
 

“He’s dead and not coming back!” Was Disney’s line, so he was made into a force-ghost who could manipulate the World around him. Doesn’t seem that would have been a sackable offence, so probably more that Trevorrow’s last movie bombed.

 

Whatever, I’ve long given up on any kind of overarching coherent narrative in the Star Wars universe and so treat it like fragments from the endless stories surrounding Arthurian Legend. Pick and choose the bits you like best and which make most sense to you. And then buy the toys.

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  • 2 weeks later...

New CG short of a Tie Fighter vs. X-Wing duel (spoilered for size). Sometimes I forget how far CGI has progressed during the past few years. This is really good stuff!

 

Edit: Just realised it was produced to promote the new Squadron game (I'm so out of touch). It's still fantastic.

Spoiler

 

 

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Just dropping into the thread to say. I just finished watching the clone wars, courtesy of a fourmite providing this link of Must see episodes to catch you up to series 7. I tried a few times to get into before, but never did. However, this curated list of episodes helped me really enjoy it, without the filler.

 

In Summary? I dunno what to say...the last series, and specifically the last 5 episodes, was the best Star Wars I've ever seen, ever. It's got me thinking about it even now.

 

So for anyone that hasn't seen Clone Wars? DO IT!

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I'm really surprised at the support for the last jedi in this thread. He single handedly broke the trilogy with his bullcrap "subverting expectations", ignoring every single thing in the force awakens, then finally trashing Luke, and turning him into a green milk drinking old curmudgeon. 

 

It had its good moments (rey and ren) but he took a big shit on everything. No wonder the third film turned out broken, trying to fix that mess. 

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1 hour ago, IcEBuRN said:

I'm really surprised at the support for the last jedi in this thread. He single handedly broke the trilogy with his bullcrap "subverting expectations", ignoring every single thing in the force awakens, then finally trashing Luke, and turning him into a green milk drinking old curmudgeon. 

 

It had its good moments (rey and ren) but he took a big shit on everything. No wonder the third film turned out broken, trying to fix that mess. 

 

Maybe he thought, rightly, that TFA was shite. But yeah, he really destroyed Luke's character, and on further reflection it does appear he didn't like any pre-existing Star Wars story!

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4 minutes ago, drmick said:

 

Maybe he thought, rightly, that TFA was shite. But yeah, he really destroyed Luke's character, and on further reflection it does appear he didn't like any pre-existing Star Wars story!

Luke was the epitome of hope in the original movies. Completely ruined.

All those choice snippets of Mark Hamill in interviews talking about how he disagreed with Luke's direction make prefect sense now, with context. Such a professional though that he never really gave the game away.

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I still think TLJ is the best of the new films. Broken Luke’s redemption is brilliant as is the Luke-Ben-Rey triangle. I could live without Space Monte Carlo and Space Mary Poppins but they’re hugely outweighed by the good stuff.

 

I don’t know what alternative story would have worked better for Luke given the setup from TFA. He’s tried training new Jedi only to fail miserably with one of them going full Vader, then gone into hiding, and stayed hidden away even while his friends, family and the entire known universe are under attack from Empire 2: Galactic Boogaloo. Rey finding him on his island only to discover he’s got the tools they need (either his own Jedi powers turbocharged, or a legion of new Jedi warriors, or both) but chosen not to use them would be much more of a departure from Luke’s established character than the story of failure, hope lost, hope rekindled, learning from failure and ultimate redemption that we got. IMHO of course.

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4 minutes ago, Darren said:

I still think TLJ is the best of the new films. Broken Luke’s redemption is brilliant as is the Luke-Ben-Rey triangle. I could live without Space Monte Carlo and Space Mary Poppins but they’re hugely outweighed by the good stuff.

 

I don’t know what alternative story would have worked better for Luke given the setup from TFA. He’s tried training new Jedi only to fail miserably with one of them going full Vader, then gone into hiding, and stayed hidden away even while his friends, family and the entire known universe are under attack from Empire 2: Galactic Boogaloo. Rey finding him on his island only to discover he’s got the tools they need (either his own Jedi powers turbocharged, or a legion of new Jedi warriors, or both) but chosen not to use them would be much more of a departure from Luke’s established character than the story of failure, hope lost, hope rekindled, learning from failure and ultimate redemption that we got. IMHO of course.

I respectfully disagree :P. There's loads wrong with the last jedi. Funilly enough for Mary Poppins isn't one. I think you can pretty much explain that away by using some form of force pull, as in space, you don't need a lot of it to move around...

 

Without going into detail:

Side-lining Fin

Captain pointless   Phasma

Po becoming a fucking obtuse moron, sacrificing a whole team of bombers, when a couple of missiles would of done (and really, bombs that drop in space?). He was really charming in the Force Awakens. :(

The Space Chase(tm) that made no sense at all.

Hyperspace attack, that while looked very cool, completely breaks continuity for the whole of the star wars universe, which they attempt to badly explain away in Rise of Sky Walker.

Trashing Luke - Have him leave sure. But the whole throwing the saber away, and being a moody shithead isn't him. I actually like part of the message of the film, the force is in others, it doesn't have to be Light or Dark. Like a grey Jedi perhaps? But luke was just a bit of a knob. The redemption bit was nice though.

Snoke? Who is he? Where has he been all this time? Fuck him, kill him off, lol.

Luke's Saber calling out to Rey? Never mind that guys. Shhh

Rey's backstory built up in the previous movie? LOL. You're no one as well, never mind all that previous stuff. Shhhh

 

There is more, but I might get into a rant if I don't stop now, hah!

 

 

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Fair enough. Most of those weren’t problems for me and some of them I really liked. Poe being a dick and learning from it was important for his character and the story as a whole. He’s the leader Leia is grooming to take over but she knows he has to learn that being a leader with responsibility for others is very different to being a hotshot who only puts themself at risk. And I like the bombers, I know they don’t make sense in space but neither does any Star Wars space stuff right back to the original dogfight. But there’s some nice continuity in that the x-wing dogfight was based on Spitfires and now we have Lancaster Bombers too.

 

My problem with Mary Poppins wasn’t that it happened - I agree totally with your explanation - but the execution. It was just a badly put together shot, that should have been powerful and moving (Leia’s dead! No, she’s alive! And she can use the force!!) but undermined itself by looking so rubbish.

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That's fair. Mary Poppins was pretty random, and I get that I, from my own lens, am focusing on specific things which may not bother other people. I guess if I was to summarise, what annoys me most about the last jedi, is the complete fuck you to the previous movie, good or not, in the vain "Subverting Expectations". You can't build up all these elements, then just take a shit on it all as a surprise. It irrationally annoys me, because this is pretty much the biggest franchise in the world, and there was zero though put into it. 

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Interesting article around Finn's story arc after Force Awakens and how it ruined his character.

 

https://www.cheatsheet.com/entertainment/star-wars-some-fans-say-their-favorite-finn-moment-is-hard-to-swallow-now.html/

 

I do feel that he was the most misused and sidelined character in Last Jedi, played as more a coward for comedy laughs (I know he started as a deserter in Force Awakens but by the end he is literally willing to sacrifice himself for Rey). He was almost non existent in Rise of Skywalker as well.

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Totally agree with @Darren. TLJ is the best of the three by quite some way. Not perfect, misplaced humour, some dodgy cgi and failure to follow through on some of the more interesting twists, plus Phasma is as superfluous as ever. But also Rose who gives Fynn a purpose and a foil, the best line and the best twist in the trilogy - Rey from nowhere and the force sensitive non Skywalker family members.

 

TFA is entertaining and functional, RoS is entertaining and entirely superficial but TLJ actually tries to tell a story and expand the universe.

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1 minute ago, drmick said:

What is this Mary Poppins reference? (I haven't seen either movie).

Why have you not seen either of the movies?? 

 

I mean I don't rate them, but you should watch them nonetheless 

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3 minutes ago, IcEBuRN said:

Why have you not seen either of the movies?? 

 

I mean I don't rate them, but you should watch them nonetheless 

 

Haven't seen a Godfather movie either. Nor any Winnie the Pooh movie. Nor Gone with the Wind. Nor It's a Wonderful Life. Nor Citizen Kane. Hardly worth explaining why I haven't seen any random movie!

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1 minute ago, drmick said:

 

Haven't seen a Godfather movie either. Nor any Winnie the Pooh movie. Nor Gone with the Wind. Nor It's a Wonderful Life. Nor Citizen Kane. Hardly worth explaining why I haven't seen any random movie!

Sure man, I get that. But you're in a star wars thread, talking about star wars...?

 

Not really the same thing.

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1 hour ago, drmick said:

What is this Mary Poppins reference? (I haven't seen either movie).


Halfway through the film, Princess Leia defeats Darth Vader by opening a flap on R2-D2’s head and taking out a bazooka.

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1 hour ago, SeanR said:

the same mary poppins reference as GotG2

 

I think that the Internet would not have universally decided to compare Leia to Mary Poppins if GOTG2 hadn't reminded everyone of her earlier in the year.

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2 hours ago, drmick said:

 

I'm talking about the Mary Poppins movies!

Mary Poppins is actually a bad ass Jedi, in hiding from the Empire since Order 66, pretending to be a nanny. She actually has a confrontation with Vader on the rooftops of ol' London in the latest movie where her umbrella is revealed to be a lightsaber.

 

Disney retconned all of their films to be part of the Star Wars universe after purchasing from Lucas.

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On 18/09/2020 at 23:29, IcEBuRN said:

Just dropping into the thread to say. I just finished watching the clone wars, courtesy of a fourmite providing this link of Must see episodes to catch you up to series 7. I tried a few times to get into before, but never did. However, this curated list of episodes helped me really enjoy it, without the filler.

 

In Summary? I dunno what to say...the last series, and specifically the last 5 episodes, was the best Star Wars I've ever seen, ever. It's got me thinking about it even now.

 

So for anyone that hasn't seen Clone Wars? DO IT!


Those last few episodes of the Clone Wars are some of the best Star Wars moments imo.  As I said before in the thread the music change & sequence in the run up to

Spoiler

order 66

 is just perfection.

 

I’m watching Rebels now and would recommend it too.  There’s probably a watch list for it too, but I’m enjoying the sillier episodes too.  It’s got a lot more of the daily oppression of living under the empire.

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9 hours ago, IcEBuRN said:

I'm really surprised at the support for the last jedi in this thread. He single handedly broke the trilogy with his bullcrap "subverting expectations", ignoring every single thing in the force awakens, then finally trashing Luke, and turning him into a green milk drinking old curmudgeon. 

 

It had its good moments (rey and ren) but he took a big shit on everything. No wonder the third film turned out broken, trying to fix that mess. 


TFA is shallow garbage, and like everything else JJ ever made you can’t do a sequel to it because it’s all meaningless drivel designed to be intriguing at the cost of any actual story.

 

TLJ is the only interesting film of the Disney era, with clear themes, interesting characters, new locations that aren’t just lazy repeats and excellent performances. I can’t believe something that good was made out of the shitty mess TFA left for it to build on.

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