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Gender Diversity / Politics in games (was Tropes Vs. Women)

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3 hours ago, Anne Summers said:

I wouldn't go as far as saying never. 

If it results in suicide, I would say it is much more likely to be a case of guilty conscience. Just seems far more likely a scenario to me than someone committing suicide because ... they are upset about false accusations being made against them..? I'm actually not sure what is being postulated as the driver behind innocent people committing suicide after receiving false allegations.

 

 

 

This isn't well thought out, innocent people kill themselves all the time for all sorts of reasons. I know this isn't your intention but hand waving it away as "well that just proves something was up and / or true" is simplistic. Furthermore it's an outcome that's generally not one wanted by survivors who would prefer serial abusers engage in a number of actions including acknowledging the damage they've caused and changing so as not to create more hurt. Generally survivors would prefer not to have to deal with the guilt of feeling like they've been responsible for someone killing themselves.

 

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5 minutes ago, Unofficial Who said:

 

This isn't well thought out, innocent people kill themselves all the time for all sorts of reasons. 

 

 

Fair point. But remember we aren't talking about people who kill themselves for "all sorts of reasons". We're specifically talking about (hypothetical) people who kill themselves because they are the subject of accusations (founded or unfounded). 

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18 hours ago, Unofficial Who said:

 

And yet women (and some men) can end up leaving their chosen fields or end their lives when abusive men are left to continue abusing. A small number of abusive men can over time create a massive negative impact for society as a whole. How do we balance that out?

Well, as someone who was accused through a whisper network and lost friends over it (and had to go to counselling because of the way people treated me over it) - and all because one girl said I had taken advantage of her four years prior (yet invited me to her party by text a week after we slept together four years earlier) I can honestly say I have no idea.

I believe most women but I am skeptical because our justice system is built on innocent until proven guilty and as someone who now avoids going to certain events because of the whisper network who have no proof then I think we need systems in place to help those being bullied or harassed but also checks and balances to prevent innocent people having their lives ruined.

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9 hours ago, Rev said:

 

They take the accuser to court for slander and require an apology as part of the settlement. 

 

Yeah I looked into that - sadly the time requirement is 18 months and also costs an absolute fortune to take someone to court for slander or defamation ($50k plus)

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39 minutes ago, Phelan said:

Yeah I looked into that - sadly the time requirement is 18 months and also costs an absolute fortune to take someone to court for slander or defamation ($50k plus)

 

And then there's the Streisand effect where taking someone to court for slander or defamation can just increase the damage.

 

On the other side if someone who's been abused or mistreated wants to sue their abuser in court you're looking at 18 months, approx $100K plus and career damage.

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23 minutes ago, Unofficial Who said:

 

And then there's the Streisand effect where taking someone to court for slander or defamation can just increase the damage.

 

On the other side if someone who's been abused or mistreated wants to sue their abuser in court you're looking at 18 months, approx $100K plus and career damage.

Honestly the whole thing is a mess. I chose to walk away from an entire industry I had worked in and had many friends in because it wasn't worth the stress from the whisper campaign. I attempted to enter an event and was told I wasn't allowed as the event was a safe space for women and I asked him why and he said he had heard something about me and that he didn't want me to enter. 

 

Having experienced this from the other side it's not pleasant being branded for something you didn't do.

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So what do you have to say on the topic to not get consistently negged:

 

“Cancel culture is a fantastic alternative to criminal justice and the crimes of those accused are always proportionate to the price they ultimately pay. It’s great many of them top themselves so they never face punishment or rehabilitation.”

 

?

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18 minutes ago, grindmouse said:

So what do you have to say on the topic to not get consistently negged:

 

“Cancel culture is a fantastic alternative to criminal justice and the crimes of those accused are always proportionate to the price they ultimately pay. It’s great many of them top themselves so they never face punishment or rehabilitation.”

 

?

 

I don't think that's entirely fair.

 

There's been a few people here including myself who''ve stated they'd like to see better alternatives.

 

As for negging, some posters will neg. Turn rep off or lobby for the rep system to be removed. As it is you're already on my "no neg" list along with others who've stated their wish to opt out of being negged.

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The current CEO of Failbetter Games where Alexis Kennedy used to be CEO has written in a personal capacity in response to Alexis' statement

 

https://medium.com/@wastebooks/alexis-kennedy-71044efc0ecf

 

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Alexis has now responded in a post he called ‘What Actually Happened’. It is not an accurate title. 

Quote

I’ve seen various suggestions that these matters should not have been raised publicly; that they should have been taken up with the individual, with a HR department, with the police, with the courts.

 

I can’t speak for others, but I’m talking about this because I want to work in an industry where:

- Newcomers of any gender can safely seek out sources of mentorship and guidance;

 

- People who’ve been harmed feel safe and welcome at our events;

 

- The standards of acceptable behaviour are higher than ‘has not committed a criminal offence’.

 

Right now, I can’t see an adequate alternative to public discussion. I’ll talk later about my own past attempt to address one part of this with Alexis privately. It wasn’t successful; had I or others tried again, I don’t believe it would have gone better.

Quote

his version of the story is inaccurate and omits important details

Quote

Alexis has an explanation for why so many people in the industry have believed the allegations. He says they were primed by a bunch of unfounded rumours in an echo chamber, perhaps spread by a single person. That isn’t true.

First, quite a few people have made it clear that their belief is founded on their own personal experiences with Alexis, or those of their direct acquaintances.

 

Second, not everything heard from others is a rumour. We all make use of information shared with us by others, and learn ways to assess its reliability. Personally, I have heard few rumours about Alexis. I have heard a lot of detailed and specific allegations. At this time, only a fraction of them have made their way onto the public internet. They aren’t mine to share. However, I’ll talk later about an experience I had with Alexis that I think illustrates the behaviour of which he has been accused, and which might help anyone who needs to form an opinion on this to do so.

 

Third, it’s a small industry. Many of us are acquainted with Alexis’s principal accusers, who put their own reputations on the line by speaking out. We have informed opinions about their integrity, judgement, access to information and evidential standards.

 

tl;dr: Alexis Kennedy is a lying abusive arsehole

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Just read the above piece, it's a pretty convincing rebuttal. The article he links to is gret as well.

 

https://theweek.com/articles/737056/myth-male-bumbler

 



There's a reason for this plague of know-nothings: The bumbler's perpetual amazement exonerates him. Incompetence is less damaging than malice. And men — particularly powerful men — use that loophole like corporations use off-shore accounts. The bumbler takes one of our culture's most muscular myths — that men are clueless — and weaponizes it into an alibi.

Allow me to make a controversial proposition: Men are every bit as sneaky and calculating and venomous as women are widely suspected to be. And the bumbler — the very figure that shelters them from this ugly truth — is the best and hardest proof.

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I kind of miss Anita's Trope series, it would be nice to see examples of how current games get things wrong as a collective rather than what you get now (typically an article about a single game)

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On 28/09/2019 at 21:12, Capwn said:

I kind of miss Anita's Trope series, it would be nice to see examples of how current games get things wrong as a collective rather than what you get now (typically an article about a single game)

 

I was thinking about this just the other day while looking up opinions and reviews on Nier Automata a couple of weeks back. IN one place (a traditionally non-videogame forum) some posts from 2017 pointed out that one of the victories of GG was that weird or problematic issues with games were no longer open to debate in video games press. Which is a shame because I would have loved to have read some debate over the costume design for 2B.

 

Recent reviews of works like Code Vein seem to have taken pains to skirt around some issues apart from RPS who started their review with

Code Vein is a sexist action RPG about post-apocalyptic vampires that borrows liberally from Dark Souls, while speeding up and complicating its combat in ways that I really like. The plot’s a bit rubbish.



*Dusts hands*.

 

 

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Given how popular those Trope videos were and how much attention they received I'm surprised nobody else has attempted to make a similar youtube series?

 

Then again, after all the death threats and abuse Anita received it could be pretty scary for anyone to even attempt to take her baton and continue running with it. 

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16 hours ago, Capwn said:

Given how popular those Trope videos were and how much attention they received I'm surprised nobody else has attempted to make a similar youtube series?

 

Then again, after all the death threats and abuse Anita received it could be pretty scary for anyone to even attempt to take her baton and continue running with it. 

Yeah I think most people want to stay the fuck away from them so they don't get attacked and doxxed etc. In a way he scumbags have won.

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On 01/09/2019 at 07:38, Broker said:

 

Being dead doesn’t stop you being a fucking scumbag, see Totalbiscuit. Pathetic, right wing, sexist cunts are desperate to turn all the dead sexist cunts into martyrs for people like you to rally around, people whose disgusting opinions you can trot out forever when you’re being nasty little bigots because you’re genuinely stupid enough to think that if someone is dead none of their repulsive ideas are up for discussion. But guess what? A dead racist, or a dead sexist, or a dead sexual abuser, is still a fucking cunt. Just like you are and will always be, no matter how hard you try to pretend you’re just misunderstanding so you can keep trolling the people on here stupid enough to be trying to educate you out of your endless, hateful bigotry. 

 

You've responded exactly how I expected you might. You are fueled with hate and bile with absolutely anything that isn't you, which I'd normally find sad, except your schoolyard bully attitude deserves no pity and thankfully, is being called out by others on the forum as well.

It is a absolutely hilarious you mention me and hate in the same line when compared to yourself.

 

To the dev poster here who cut ties with the dead dev, only to be told here they shouldn't feel guilty (couldn't be arsed to quote), is sadly just as inhumane/unemotional an action to be told. He died because within a week cancel culture cut ties with him, no judge, no jury. The very 'very' least you can manage is indeed, guilt. Guilt for beleving anything on face value and acting on it.

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59 minutes ago, NEG said:

 

You've responded exactly how I expected you might. You are fueled with hate and bile with absolutely anything that isn't you, which I'd normally find sad, except your schoolyard bully attitude deserves no pity and thankfully, is being called out by others on the forum as well.

It is a absolutely hilarious you mention me and hate in the same line when compared to yourself.

 

To the dev poster here who cut ties with the dead dev, only to be told here they shouldn't feel guilty (couldn't be arsed to quote), is sadly just as inhumane/unemotional an action to be told. He died because within a week cancel culture cut ties with him, no judge, no jury. The very 'very' least you can manage is indeed, guilt. Guilt for beleving anything on face value and acting on it.

 

Yeah fuck you mate.

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2 hours ago, NEG said:

 

You've....

 

I'm going to stop you right there and spare quoting the rest. I know you've been away for a bit but maybe before posting read the past few pages and ruminate for a bit before posting a response. There's a fair bit of nuanced debate (and to be fair some trash) to read through because the whole situation is far from the black or white conclusion you seem to have come to.

 

As for responding to Broker's post from a month ago you can report the post. If you want to discuss your moderation rather than debate it here you can chat about it here 

https://www.rllmukforum.com/index.php?/topic/310145-politics-threads-moddingnot-modding/

 

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5 hours ago, SweatyTravolta said:

Not when combined with the their tweets, utterly disgusting shitebags.

Aah, I didn't know the whole story was just going off the text in that article. 

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That discount is a stretch, not least because in the EU it rounds to 42%. It's just the compound of 2 individual discounts.

 

Doesn't make the devs any less scum of course but that's not why.

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The FBI released some more files on Gamergate (following the previous batch they released in 2017).

 

https://vault.fbi.gov/gamergate-1/gamergate-part-01-of-01/view

 

Most of it's redacted, but it contains reports from people doxxed by 8chan's /baphomet/, as well as reports from Gamergaters complaining about Gamergate things.

 

I think the complaints on pages 83 and 87 refer to FoldableHuman's since-deleted Medium article "The Mods are Always Asleep" about the prevalence of child porn on 8chan. Because it contained blurred screenshots, Gamergaters claimed that anyone viewing or linking to it was also in possession of child porn.

 

Highlights via Reddit:

 

XSx1SWY.png

 

Quote

P.s. love your work

 

 

yEBXLLy.png

 

Curse you, Anita, for not fulfilling your crowdfunding obligations! :mad:

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