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Gender Diversity / Politics in games (was Tropes Vs. Women)

Unofficial Who

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Unofficial Who

Unofficial Who

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Just read the above piece, it's a pretty convincing rebuttal. The article he links to is gret as well.

 

https://theweek.com/articles/737056/myth-male-bumbler

 



There's a reason for this plague of know-nothings: The bumbler's perpetual amazement exonerates him. Incompetence is less damaging than malice. And men — particularly powerful men — use that loophole like corporations use off-shore accounts. The bumbler takes one of our culture's most muscular myths — that men are clueless — and weaponizes it into an alibi.

Allow me to make a controversial proposition: Men are every bit as sneaky and calculating and venomous as women are widely suspected to be. And the bumbler — the very figure that shelters them from this ugly truth — is the best and hardest proof.

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Unofficial Who

Unofficial Who

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On 28/09/2019 at 21:12, Capwn said:

I kind of miss Anita's Trope series, it would be nice to see examples of how current games get things wrong as a collective rather than what you get now (typically an article about a single game)

 

I was thinking about this just the other day while looking up opinions and reviews on Nier Automata a couple of weeks back. IN one place (a traditionally non-videogame forum) some posts from 2017 pointed out that one of the victories of GG was that weird or problematic issues with games were no longer open to debate in video games press. Which is a shame because I would have loved to have read some debate over the costume design for 2B.

 

Recent reviews of works like Code Vein seem to have taken pains to skirt around some issues apart from RPS who started their review with

Code Vein is a sexist action RPG about post-apocalyptic vampires that borrows liberally from Dark Souls, while speeding up and complicating its combat in ways that I really like. The plot’s a bit rubbish.



*Dusts hands*.

 

 

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Capwn

Capwn

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Given how popular those Trope videos were and how much attention they received I'm surprised nobody else has attempted to make a similar youtube series?

 

Then again, after all the death threats and abuse Anita received it could be pretty scary for anyone to even attempt to take her baton and continue running with it. 

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Phelan

Phelan

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16 hours ago, Capwn said:

Given how popular those Trope videos were and how much attention they received I'm surprised nobody else has attempted to make a similar youtube series?

 

Then again, after all the death threats and abuse Anita received it could be pretty scary for anyone to even attempt to take her baton and continue running with it. 

Yeah I think most people want to stay the fuck away from them so they don't get attacked and doxxed etc. In a way he scumbags have won.

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NEG

NEG

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On 01/09/2019 at 07:38, Broker said:

 

Being dead doesn’t stop you being a fucking scumbag, see Totalbiscuit. Pathetic, right wing, sexist cunts are desperate to turn all the dead sexist cunts into martyrs for people like you to rally around, people whose disgusting opinions you can trot out forever when you’re being nasty little bigots because you’re genuinely stupid enough to think that if someone is dead none of their repulsive ideas are up for discussion. But guess what? A dead racist, or a dead sexist, or a dead sexual abuser, is still a fucking cunt. Just like you are and will always be, no matter how hard you try to pretend you’re just misunderstanding so you can keep trolling the people on here stupid enough to be trying to educate you out of your endless, hateful bigotry. 

 

You've responded exactly how I expected you might. You are fueled with hate and bile with absolutely anything that isn't you, which I'd normally find sad, except your schoolyard bully attitude deserves no pity and thankfully, is being called out by others on the forum as well.

It is a absolutely hilarious you mention me and hate in the same line when compared to yourself.

 

To the dev poster here who cut ties with the dead dev, only to be told here they shouldn't feel guilty (couldn't be arsed to quote), is sadly just as inhumane/unemotional an action to be told. He died because within a week cancel culture cut ties with him, no judge, no jury. The very 'very' least you can manage is indeed, guilt. Guilt for beleving anything on face value and acting on it.

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Wroth

Wroth

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59 minutes ago, NEG said:

 

You've responded exactly how I expected you might. You are fueled with hate and bile with absolutely anything that isn't you, which I'd normally find sad, except your schoolyard bully attitude deserves no pity and thankfully, is being called out by others on the forum as well.

It is a absolutely hilarious you mention me and hate in the same line when compared to yourself.

 

To the dev poster here who cut ties with the dead dev, only to be told here they shouldn't feel guilty (couldn't be arsed to quote), is sadly just as inhumane/unemotional an action to be told. He died because within a week cancel culture cut ties with him, no judge, no jury. The very 'very' least you can manage is indeed, guilt. Guilt for beleving anything on face value and acting on it.

 

Yeah fuck you mate.

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Unofficial Who

Unofficial Who

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2 hours ago, NEG said:

 

You've....

 

I'm going to stop you right there and spare quoting the rest. I know you've been away for a bit but maybe before posting read the past few pages and ruminate for a bit before posting a response. There's a fair bit of nuanced debate (and to be fair some trash) to read through because the whole situation is far from the black or white conclusion you seem to have come to.

 

As for responding to Broker's post from a month ago you can report the post. If you want to discuss your moderation rather than debate it here you can chat about it here 

https://www.rllmukforum.com/index.php?/topic/310145-politics-threads-moddingnot-modding/

 

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Nick R

Nick R

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The FBI released some more files on Gamergate (following the previous batch they released in 2017).

 

https://vault.fbi.gov/gamergate-1/gamergate-part-01-of-01/view

 

Most of it's redacted, but it contains reports from people doxxed by 8chan's /baphomet/, as well as reports from Gamergaters complaining about Gamergate things.

 

I think the complaints on pages 83 and 87 refer to FoldableHuman's since-deleted Medium article "The Mods are Always Asleep" about the prevalence of child porn on 8chan. Because it contained blurred screenshots, Gamergaters claimed that anyone viewing or linking to it was also in possession of child porn.

 

Highlights via Reddit:

 

XSx1SWY.png

 

Quote

P.s. love your work

 

 

yEBXLLy.png

 

Curse you, Anita, for not fulfilling your crowdfunding obligations! :mad:

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George Clooney

George Clooney

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In what I’m sure is a surprise to no one, gamergate supporting site proves not only to be ethically dodgy but also that a lot of its readers only care about “ethics in games journalism” when it’s a website that they think is “too sjw”

 

https://nichegamer.com/2019/12/18/an-update-and-apology-from-niche-gamer/

 

the link is an apology from the founder of niche gamer who unsurprisingly was also a shitbag during gamergate and quite quick to complain about those darn unethical journalists that.....didn’t score Bayonetta 2 10/10 because they thought it was a bit cringy or supported anitas Kickstarter and didnt “disclose” it every time they spoke about games. Turns out he’s been pulling content from another website Gematsu and posting it without credit. Gemastu basically translates Japanese press releases, but it’s literally the guy running the site who does the translations so he’s actually doing some work for it. Not only has he got pretty damning evidence that the stuffs been lifted from his site, like typos and edit change logs, one even links back to his site that niche gamer didn’t remove. 
 

Not bad enough? The niche gamer guy, Brandon Orselli, on being confronted blames a “ghostwriter” he’d hired recently as help, saying he’d then released him. Many people pointed out it made no sense to do this, like why not just credit him, and that the articles went back to 2016, and there were loads.

 

So he fessed up, admitted he’d lied about that but at the same time doesn’t seem to have said “yes, I copied these articles”, while at the same time admits that the articles are suspect and has removed some. He’s apologised to the guy who ran the site that was copied from, but in the vaguest way possible.  He’s saying he’s stepping down but to be honest it just sounds like he’s letting others be more visible and he’s still the site owner and will not really lose out. 
 

So, that should be it for him, right!? Nah, there are literally people in the replies and comments saying “I came here because of gamergate, because you stood for ethics and now this....but I’m still going to come here because you stand against the sjws”.  The guy literally did something more concrete and obviously unethical than anything gamergate “uncovered”, lied about it until he couldn’t, and they give him a pass.

 

Just shows, it was never about ethics in games journalism....it was always about being against “sjws”

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NEG

NEG

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On 02/10/2019 at 10:27, NEG said:

To the dev poster here who cut ties with the dead dev, only to be told here they shouldn't feel guilty (couldn't be arsed to quote), is sadly just as inhumane/unemotional an action to be told. He died because within a week cancel culture cut ties with him, no judge, no jury. The very 'very' least you can manage is indeed, guilt. Guilt for beleving anything on face value and acting on it.

 

Seems I was banned for 3 months for saying this. The ban notes by @APM which the forum cannot see stated that I attacked/blamed the dev poster, which we'll just have to agree to disagree. It was not meant to come off as an attack, and in fact they were not even spoken to directly. I was telling off the guy who told the dev to basically not feel anything. That, to me, is wrong.

This is the kind of thing that affects us all as gamers and devs of the hobby alike, it is normal to feel guilt and shitty about a situation, no matter your stance on it or level of involvement. It is worse to tell someone not to feel, especially someone that appears to have known him to some degree. We all let our hobby down when shit like this happens, no one deserves topping themselves via media backlash. No one.

 

If defending my stance is a ban offence, perhaps the forum feels like we should have felt good and celebrated that the developer of Night in the Woods and Aquaria is gone (both great games) instead of any other emotions, then feel free. I do not feel I was in the wrong here for pointing out feelings, including negative ones like guilt, are okay to have. The only thing I could have added was 'by all'.

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Eighthours

Eighthours

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3 hours ago, memories said:

Well worth a read...https://www.kotaku.co.uk/2020/01/03/the-cost-of-being-a-woman-who-covers-video-games

 

Interesting stuff. Has anyone tried to do any research into misogynistic attitudes among gamers, and whether this supposedly anti-social hobby (as we all know, it absolutely doesn't have to be) particularly attracts misogynists? Are movie-goers just as bad? What about fans of other things? It would be interesting to find out whether gaming in particular is a black spot here, or whether the problems in the industry are the same in pretty much any allegedly male-dominated hobby. I don't think I'm wording this post particularly well, but I'm wondering whether people who have issues with women for various reasons are more attracted to gaming than other pursuits partly because it's a way of finding and feeling like a community when IRL they're less able to do so. And do the actions of many devs/publishers in not outright condemning Gamergate feed into these problems?

 

So yeah, are there any studies into misogyny among gamers? And if not, why not? We have a pretty progressive gaming community on rllmuk in the main, but looking at posts on Reddit/YouTube/Twitter etc, we're an oasis in a world of shit when it comes to this stuff. Or is the problem not who gaming can attract, but just men as a whole, really?

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Wools

Wools

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8 hours ago, Eighthours said:

 

Interesting stuff. Has anyone tried to do any research into misogynistic attitudes among gamers, and whether this supposedly anti-social hobby (as we all know, it absolutely doesn't have to be) particularly attracts misogynists? Are movie-goers just as bad? What about fans of other things?

 

I think it affects all walks of our society.

 

Because I'm a bit of a watch geek, it took me by supprise when I first started reading a watch forum a few years ago how some dive watch fans have strong opinions that they should never be worn by Women. I pulled 1 of them up on this and got a heated reply back that girls (Never Women) aren't as strong divers so their precious, yellow gold dive watches look best and only really are made for men. Of course, diving history is filled with examples of Women divers and adventurers but that didn't trouble their bigoted little heads.

 

Another thing I've noticed as I've got more hobbies, is there's always a pissing contest for amount of knowledge one acquires or how good they are in their hobby. I've always felt the surface level competition is bullshit, it's just a way to measure your cock by saying mine's bigger than yours. Example; A week ago on Twitter, their was a tweet that blew up that was something like; You can only enjoy a game if you don't use a rewind feature. People waded in but for me, it highlighted a little quirk that if you get a load of blokes in a room, it becomes a pissing contest and that sadly, perputates out into all forms of society. Just Women rarely do the leading because Men keep them held down.

 

Despite needing to do so much more, reading that blog above made me so happy. Slowly, the basment dwelling little 4Chan fucks who get angry Women aren't portrayed in the way they want them to be (Young, tits out & subservient to Men’s wishes) are having their world torn down. :)

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