Gender Diversity / Politics in games (was Tropes Vs. Women)

[Qazimod]

22 minutes ago, JohnC said:

No, sweetdaddyg or something.

 

Not too long after he came back under this new name, he claimed to have changed from his old idiot self. That didn't last.

 

It's clippa - he sometimes posts videos from his "clippa" YouTube account, so it's not like he minds people knowing.

 

Anyway, that twitter thread is pretty dire reading, but as people have said we don't know all of the circumstances behind the applications so...  

[Alex W.]

2 hours ago, Dudley said:

The counterpoint to that is prominent in the mentions is someone who transitioned the other way and noticed the exact opposite effect.

 

You'd think they would have encountered the same problems with looking up and transphobia but it doesn't seem to have been that way.

 

I recently found out about Ben Barres, who had similar experiences in the sciences and wrote at length about it. Also about how it instilled a sense of responsibility to act as an equality advocate from the resulting position of male privilege. It was sobering reading.

[Illyria]

1 hour ago, Qazimod said:

 

It's clippa - he sometimes posts videos from his "clippa" YouTube account, so it's not like he minds people knowing.

 

Anyway, that twitter thread is pretty dire reading, but as people have said we don't know all of the circumstances behind the applications so...  

 

We really don't need to though. There is enough evidence out there that tells us stuff like this happens, a lot. Not just when applying for jobs, but in daily interactions, at work and elsewhere. I thought we were beyond questioning the effects one's race and gender had on one's chances and treatment in wider society?

 

Also @witchypoos no idea what's up with you, I don't understand your comments on the previous page (like, literally, it's a language barrier thing) and why you bring me into this, but this thread still has importance and you can take your persecution complex and insults elsewhere. 

[Delargey]

12 minutes ago, Illyria said:

 

We really don't need to though. There is enough evidence out there that tells us stuff like this happens, a lot. Not just when applying for jobs, but in daily interactions, at work and elsewhere. I thought we were beyond questioning the effects one's race and gender had on one's chances and treatment in wider society?

 

 

Totally.

 

 I'd like to know the companies responses if they knew they had previously offered similar or better positions in the past.

[NEG]

Pointing out the obvious about the rejections the transitioner is having perhaps, but I'd say it's more to do with the American workplace not being ready/comfortable yet and figure there would only be 'trouble' suddenly employing not the norm. It'll change in time.

It's good she's pointing it out, hopefully some devs are reaching out to her, we know Blizzard is trying to be progressive for example.

 

@witchypoos No fun allowed in certain threads, mate. Unless it's to circle jerk about 'obviously wrong things'. You've been here long enough to know that. But never object to sharing criticism and thoughts, no matter their behaviour. Until banned, of course. 

[Shoes]

22 minutes ago, NEG said:

It'll change in time.

 

Not if it's excused, mate.

[robdood]

Quite funny actually, this came up on my YouTube tonight. Clippa mate I'd recommend you watch it.  Nobody thinks you are bad / evil, you just made a joke that no one understood or thought funny. There's no need to take it so personally man.. 

 

 

[robdood]

If you're only gonna watch one, try this one! 

 

 

 

PS- literally no one has called you a cunt, man! <3

[NEG]

11 hours ago, Shoes said:

 

Not if it's excused, mate.

 

I'm sure the more hateful/blind are probably going on about how the game industry is crashing at the moment and jobs are more scarce or something and having arguments about that, but yes. Excused is just as bad as being blind.

[Dig Dug]

FFS.

PSA: This forum has a block feature, please be liberal with it.

 

This thread is no longer talking about the relevant topic from the last page. A shame as I found the topic very interesting, especially as it lines up with the story my uni supervisor told me about how it took her 2 & 1/2 years to get her first (and current) job after graduating in the field of video game studies.

 

robdood if you’re posting videos by that channel then go back and watch You go high, we go low. Because right now he’s going low and you’re wasting effort going high with him.

[NEG]

10 hours ago, Unofficial Who said:

 

It can be when it succeeds in derailing the thread every single time.

 

Occasional taking the piss of people on both sides of the fence, if done well, is not derailment. That's not to say 'at least this ones done the leg work' and then complaining about receiving a negging counted, in this particular case. But the initial comment from him was not derailment. (but certainly not in good taste)

[Kryptonian]

4 hours ago, NEG said:

@witchypoos No fun allowed in certain threads, mate.

 

Acting like a dickhead doesn’t equal fun. Not for everyone else anyway.

[Talvalin]

10 hours ago, NEG said:

 

@witchypoos No fun allowed in certain threads, mate. Unless it's to circle jerk about 'obviously wrong things'. You've been here long enough to know that. But never object to sharing criticism and thoughts, no matter their behaviour. Until banned, of course. 

 

1. In threads where he disagrees with the majority opinion, @witchypoos is demonstrably incapable of making more than a handful of comments without launching into a tirade about being persecuted

2. There are threads in which jovial comments are appropriate. In general, this is not one of those threads (similarly, jokes are not appreciated in the #metoo thread which should be obvious and yet somehow some people just don't get it), plus his jokes weren't actually funny (subjective opinion I know but the negs tell their own story)

3. In the end, he wasn't banned for having a different opinion, but for derailing the thread. 

 

Whilst I'm here, apologies for the delayed action. The derailing posts/comments have been hidden apart from a handful that were also replying to the discussion in the thread and that I really could not be bothered to manually edit, along with the comment from witchypoos that got him banned.

 

Further derailing comments or "jokes" are not acceptable and anyone who tries it will be swiftly (or not so swiftly) banned. Thank you for your patience in this matter.

/mod

[PaB]

7 hours ago, Talvalin said:

 

2. There are threads in which jovial comments are appropriate. In general, this is not one of those threads (similarly, jokes are not appreciated in the #metoo thread which should be obvious and yet somehow some people just don't get it)

 

As a general point, an edict that a jovial comments are banned in a given topic is absolute bullshit.

[sir stiff_one]

'Jovial comments'. Right, let's be more specific:

In a thread where a serious topic discussion is happening, little wankers who pop up and take potshots which only serve to amuse the poster in question and have a high potential to completely derail the thread. 

Like Talvalin says, these things should be obvious, but somehow there are a few individuals who don't get it. Do they really not get it? Or do they do it knowing full well that it's going to cause friction?

You know who successfully posts jovial comments in serious threads that don't derail them? K. 
 

[PaB]

17 minutes ago, sir stiff_one said:

'Jovial comments'. Right, let's be more specific:

In a thread where a serious topic discussion is happening, little wankers who pop up and take potshots which only serve to amuse the poster in question and have a high potential to completely derail the thread. 

Like Talvalin says, these things should be obvious, but somehow there are a few individuals who don't get it. Do they really not get it? Or do they do it knowing full well that it's going to cause friction?

You know who successfully posts jovial comments in serious threads that don't derail them? K. 
 

 

Totally agree that there is a difference between someone being a twat and someone making a light hearted or joke comment .

 

Unfortunately it seems it's not obvious. Cochese, one of the most inoffensive posters here, got a bollocking for making a light hearted comment in the #MeToo thread. Outlawing any form of jokey post (which was the instruction given "There are threads in which jovial comments are appropriate..." ) in a thread is a total nonsense.

 

This probably belongs in A&F

 

 

 

[Uncle Mike]

15 minutes ago, PeteBrant said:

Cochese, one of the most inoffensive posters here

 

I can only imagine how upset Cochese is right now. Might as well call him "nice."

[NEG]

Sarcasm and jokes can be always hard to get across on the internet, but if threads like this have taught anything, people can be even further at odds when it comes to taking every word literally. Traditionally on Rllmuk we've even had funeral threads trolled with 'terrible jokes' at the persons expense. Where's the line?

 

I don't see threads like this as different, but I can understand why it's become that way. The lines have changed depending on where you stand, rather then arguably being more neutral (and harsh) in decades past.

 

 @Talvalin, as is usual with you, you are repeating what I wrote back at me as if I didnt write it first at all. (At least for points 2 and 3) But nice summary regardless :: clap clap ::

 

Out before considered derailment.

[sir stiff_one]

Do you ever wonder why it's specifically you that has a lot of issues understanding the appropriate reactions in context?

[Illyria]

Maybe traditional Rllmuk really was full of cunts.

 

I for one am glad if this is not the sort of place where a funeral thread attracts trolls. The amount of insensitivy and lack of basic decency required to want to troll serious threads like that is staggering imo.

[Alex W.]

I think we all have the basic level of intelligence required to recognise when someone is out and out trolling, which seems to be all the mods are trying to cut out. This isn’t a situation where remarks were at an ill defined boundary between reasonable and unreasonable.

[Unofficial Who]

8 minutes ago, Alex W. said:

I think we all have the basic level of intelligence required to recognise when someone is out and out trolling, which seems to be all the mods are trying to cut out. This isn’t a situation where remarks were at an ill defined boundary between reasonable and unreasonable.

 

I think we've seen what happens to debate now when someone starts trolling and everyone stops to listen and engage. It ends with a multipage derail every single time.

 

I still get at least one pm a year asking me to delete the thread, I suspect that trolling and shitposting serves the same purpose at putting off people from posting on this thread.

 

 

[ZOK]

2 hours ago, NEG said:

Traditionally on Rllmuk we've even had funeral threads trolled with 'terrible jokes' at the persons expense. Where's the line?

 

We have? When was that then?

 

Death of Aeris doesn’t count, by the way.

[ZOK]

9 minutes ago, Unofficial Who said:

I still get at least one pm a year asking me to delete the thread, I suspect that trolling and shitposting serves the same purpose at putting off people from posting on this thread.

 

 

 

That’s interesting. Who makes these requests? The people have a right to know!

[Opinionated Ham Scarecrow]

Unofficial Who sends them to himself.

[Unofficial Who]

3 minutes ago, ZOK said:

 

That’s interesting. Who makes these requests? The people have a right to know!

 

PMs are sent with an expectation of privacy. There were a few at the start but only one person makes the suggestion now every so often.

 

 

[ZOK]

2 minutes ago, Unofficial Who said:

 

PMs are sent with an expectation of privacy. There were a few at the start but only one person makes the suggestion now every so often.

 

 

 

I’m giving you permission to break that expectation, because there is at least an equal, if not far more important expectation, that we hound reactionary dickheads off the forum without mercy.

 

You must name names! 

[Unofficial Who]

Gah, the system ate this post.

 

Second try. So someone recommended me this youtube series called OMG A GIRL where an online gamer collates the shitty things she's had thrown at her that month.

 

They're about ten minutes long and she must have the patience of a saint. Because I could only last through three minutes.

 

They'd be a great example for naysayers who go on about how women don't have to deal with gendered shit talking or team kills or constant requests to friend them.

 

A great example except that because of youtube's shitty alogrithm my suggestions feed is now full of "Watch this person get triggered" etc. And it's probably going to be trash for weeks now. Here's one here, it's a great reminder of why I only game with friends or with the mike off.

 

 

[NEG]

3 hours ago, sir stiff_one said:

Do you ever wonder why it's specifically you that has a lot of issues understanding the appropriate reactions in context?

 

The reactions to clippa wasn't misunderstood, it was him who started whining and shouting. 

For my own comments in this thread in the past sure, it was a learning process. But it's worth noting most who cared to discuss or critique at one point or another no longer have the patience to do so, or even post on Rllmuk any more. So it's easy to single out.

 

1 hour ago, ZOK said:

 

We have? When was that then?

 

Death of Aeris doesn’t count, by the way.

 

Practically any celeb death thread.

[Talvalin]

I managed about 5 minutes of that video before I became too angry to continue. Total fucking bullshit, and the way the guy defending her gets called a white knight - argh. Fuck all of this.

 

If we're now at the stage where this can be recorded with identifiable gamertags, I would love for there to be bans handed out for this kind of harassment (at least on Xbox Live or PSN),  but in all due honesty that seems like a remote possibility.