Gender Diversity / Politics in games (was Tropes Vs. Women)

[Alex W.]

They’ve toned it down a little, so I can write about dark stuff or the sky while having Dark Sky installed, but it’s still a pain in the arse for uncommon words that appear in app names.

[Unofficial Who]

Interesting indie game Behind Every Great One which is all about household sexism in regards to divvying up chores and how things can just stack up over time.

 

https://deconstructeam.itch.io/behind-every-great-one

 

 

There's a great write up here about it. 

 

Behind Every Great One tells the story of Victorine, a housewife married to an artist called Gabriel. “Victorine doesn’t have any personal passions but supports Gabriel,” the game’s description reads. “They love each other.”

While Gabriel is hard at work painting in his studio, Victorine is expressly forbidden to enter. Instead, you control her as she wanders around the house, cooking, cleaning, maybe taking a break to read or smoke.

There’s never enough time in the day to do everything, and on the first day Gabriel showed up for dinner before I’d had a chance to sweep the dining room. He remarked upon how it was dusty, and Victorine promised to get to it tomorrow. “I wasn’t implying you should clean!” Gabriel protests.

Herein lies the core issue with their marriage. He might not have meant to put pressure on her, but he did anyway, because who else was going to clean? If he is worried about the dust, he (hopefully) knows how to tackle it, but he never makes any move to do so. At times he suggests that Victorine should get a hobby, but if she takes a break to read a book there are more complaints about the food not being well prepared, or his shirts not being ironed. He’s busy with his art, but neither is there enough time for her to finish everything alone either, let alone take time for herself.

...

In criticising unequal partnerships, Behind Every Great One is clear that there are no easy answers to gendered expectations that that all too often go unexamined, and so it examines them. And it has a key benefit: whereas many pieces of media that discuss feminist themes end up preaching to the choir, as those who agree with them continue to agree and those who don’t howl on the internet without actually considering their message, this is an issue that can sneak in to partnerships among people who should know better, .... The first step to addressing this kind of issue is being aware that it’s even happening, and Behind Every Great One serves as a reminder to be mindful of harmful patterns, for everyone.

 

 

 

 

[TehStu]

I know this is a completely trivial aside, but I love that style of artwork. It's comfortable early 90s point and click adventure.

[The Bag]

 

[MechE]

Here's a reasonable take from world renowned international champion of women's rights, :squints at notes: Mahmoud Ahmadinejad.

 

 

 

[Nick R]

 

Hmm, I wonder why?

 

 

 

[NEG]

Bloody hell.

 

I'd add alien generals just to trigger these kind of asshats further.

 

What about ethnic generals, is that already a thing or? Add those too.

[SeanR]

7 minutes ago, NEG said:

Bloody hell.

 

I'd add alien generals just to trigger these kind of asshats further.

 

What about coloured ethnic generals, is that already a thing or? Add those too.

 

uh... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Colored

 

Quote

n the 21st century, "colored" is generally regarded as an offensive term.[5][12] The term lives on in the name of the National Association for the Advancement of Colored People, generally called the NAACP.[5] In 2008, its communications director Carla Sims said "the term 'colored' is not derogatory, [the NAACP] chose the word 'colored' because it was the most positive description commonly used [in 1909, when the association was founded]. It's outdated and antiquated but not offensive."

 

[Nick R]

 

22 minutes ago, NEG said:

Bloody hell.

 

I'd add alien generals just to trigger these kind of asshats further.

 

Just when NEG makes us think for a moment that he's taking one step forward...

 

22 minutes ago, NEG said:

 coloured

 

... he takes two steps back.

[Mr Cochese]

NEG is such a white supremacist.

[NEG]

Bloody hell.

 

Edited.

 

1 hour ago, Nick R said:

 

 

Just when NEG makes us think for a moment that he's taking one step forward...

 

Human decency to one another is not something that requires steps in this day and age, mate. Don't insult me.

[Shoes]

3 hours ago, NEG said:

 

I'd add alien generals just to trigger these kind of asshats further.

 

They wouldn't give two shits. It's women and brown people. That's it. Don't mistake it for geeks wanting accuracy.

 

[Nick R]

 

[Danster]

Should have "You bunch of fucking whiners." written at the bottom of that statement.

[Bojangle]

Love that official response which is essentially "Deal with it you stupid fucking babies."

[GamesGamesGames]

13 minutes ago, Bojangle said:

Love that official response which is essentially "Deal with it you stupid fucking babies."

 

No, that's word for word what it should have been. Essentially bedamned.

[JPickford]

5 hours ago, NEG said:

Bloody hell.

 

I'd add alien generals just to trigger these kind of asshats further.

 

What about ethnic generals, is that already a thing or? Add those too.

 

Ethnic doesn't mean non-white.  Everyone has an ethnic origin/make-up.  Describing a person as ethnic is meaningless.   Its like calling someone racial.

[Mr Cochese]

Doesn't stop ethnic food stalls though, does it?

 

As an aside, "Caucasian" doesn't - as a lot of people seem to think - mean white either.

[Sane]

1 hour ago, Nick R said:

 

The comments on there are quite encouraging, I'd say it's about 80% normal people.

[NEG]

1 hour ago, JPickford said:

 

Ethnic doesn't mean non-white.  Everyone has an ethnic origin/make-up.  Describing a person as ethnic is meaningless.   Its like calling someone racial.

 

I've changed my mind. Replace all the humans with Sonic characters instead, thanks.

[NEG]

[MK-1601]

The Rome II story bugs me a bit. I strongly suspect that the wankstains doing the review bombing are mostly bored Russian + US teenage boys (as usual) with no great attachment to the game, but the games press risks playing into their hands by reporting this as "the fanbase is up in arms", or "typical gamers" etc. which is exactly what the people who organise these stunts want.

[deerokus]

They definitely are, the female generals were added ages ago and no one was annoyed. Some right wing slug just noticed and whipped up a mob.

[Unofficial Who]

GoG being all edgy again.

 

https://www.kotaku.com.au/2018/10/gog-account-publishes-yet-another-awful-tweet/

 

Quote

 

Yesterday, GOG quickly took down the tweet and, late last night, issued a response.

“Yesterday, we posted a tweet containing a trending hashtag as a pun. The tweet was neither intended as a malicious attack, nor as a comment to the ongoing social debate. GOG should focus only on games. We acknowledge that and we commit to it.”

 

 

Isolated incident though.

 

Quote

 

GOG and CD Projekt Red’s social media accounts have sparked controversy before. In July, GOG’s Twitter account posted a gif from Postal 2: Paradise Lost of a headstone with the phrase “Games Journalism — Committed suicide August 28, 2014,” believed by many to be a reference to GamerGate.

GOG also removed that tweet and followed up to clarify that they “failed to make the association between the image, the date, and an abusive movement. Our intention was never to hurt or condone hate.”

In August, the Twitter account for upcoming CD Projekt Red game Cyberpunk 2077 responded to a fan with the phrase “Did you just assume their gender?!”, which many fans interpreted as making light of trans issues.

The company later apologised for that tweet, writing, “Sorry to all those offended by one of the responses sent out from our account earlier. Harming anyone was never our intention.”

All three of these instances follow the same pattern: Clumsy jokes that are not quite aggressive or blatant enough to be seen as outright hateful, which are then quickly swept under the rug with an appeal to “intentions”.

Maybe these posts are misunderstandings of hashtags or internet trends by a social media team that has a wide range of fans to reach. Maybe they’re intentionally hateful moves made by a person or people on the team.

I want to believe that whoever is tweeting does have good “intentions”, as each of the follow-up responses have claimed, and that there’s some obstacle on those intentions’ way from their brain to the page that can be moved aside with a bit of thought, or proofreading, or searching Know Your Meme before tweeting.

 

 

There's more at the link and it's a good read.

 

I don't know why this keeps happening over at CDPR. It's almost as if there's an A social media team and a B social media team and one has devoted itself to making life hell to the team that has to go clean up.

 

I've seen a lot of talk about "snowflakes" and "get some humour" and "you'll go and buy Cyberpunk off them when it's out. Trust me hypocrite."

 

Here's the rub though. If a business feels it's fine to make edgy jokes at the expense of people I know and love I'm not really going to want to give them money. It's that easy. And hey, if they think their core market is edgelords and they're willing to sacrifice other customers to gain their patronage...I guess it's their lookout. Good luck with that.

 

edit Again with their sort of apology the only respondants are people who LOVED the original post. Again, because if you didn't who's gonna stick their arm in that blender to debate these guys?

 

 

I do know two people who quietly deleted their GOG clients because....well why support a platform when they see you as a punchline?

 

 

[Straps]

That seems like a pretty minor offence on its own; I think with better delivery they could have made the joke without being tonedeaf. Though maybe I'm just being tonedeaf myself her, I dunno.

[MK-1601]

8 hours ago, Unofficial Who said:

 

I don't know why this keeps happening over at CDPR.

 

 

It keeps happening because they (GOG/CDPR) don't understand why they have to care about social media to run a shop when the shop itself already serves well enough as their main channel of communication with their customers. So community management duty gets fobbed off onto junior staff with insufficient oversight. It's a framing problem.

 

I think they should try to approach social media more professionally and accept that the meme humour schtick of the Sonic/Playstation/Devolver/Deus Ex etc. accounts is hard for people not attuned to that culture to pull off.

 

But I'm rolling my eyes a bit at some of the press responses. Making a dumb joke then owning their mistake and deleting it is a world away from actively courting the worst elements of the audience in the way sleazy companies like Stardock, PlayAsia, those asshole Postal devs, etc. do.

 

Same thing happened when Valve said they were going to take a hands-off approach to policing Steam. Lots of strident columns accusing Valve of endorsing games about school shootings, Nazis, etc., which Valve then, well, promptly removed from Steam.

 

I reserve the right to reconsider this take if they keep fucking up and/or start trying to defend their bad tweets

[Unofficial Who]

16 hours ago, MK-1601 said:

 

It keeps happening because they (GOG/CDPR) don't understand why they have to care about social media to run a shop when the shop itself already serves well enough as their main channel of communication with their customers. So community management duty gets fobbed off onto junior staff with insufficient oversight. It's a framing problem.

 

I think they should try to approach social media more professionally and accept that the meme humour schtick of the Sonic/Playstation/Devolver/Deus Ex etc. accounts is hard for people not attuned to that culture to pull off.

 

But I'm rolling my eyes a bit at some of the press responses. Making a dumb joke then owning their mistake and deleting it is a world away from actively courting the worst elements of the audience in the way sleazy companies like Stardock, PlayAsia, those asshole Postal devs, etc. do.

 

Same thing happened when Valve said they were going to take a hands-off approach to policing Steam. Lots of strident columns accusing Valve of endorsing games about school shootings, Nazis, etc., which Valve then, well, promptly removed from Steam.

 

I reserve the right to reconsider this take if they keep fucking up and/or start trying to defend their bad tweets

 

Starting with your last line first "I reserve the right to reconsider this take if they keep fucking up and/or start trying to defend their bad tweets", this is the third time now. And it's the second time it's been a joke at the expense of the trans community.

 

And as loads of people have pointed out it's not like the GoG is under any threat by those upset to talk about leaving the service. After all their games are tied to it.

 

Except GoG is in a rather unique place. As all the games are DRM free. Which means if someone is offended they can just download their collection in one (long) swoop and quietly walk away and not come back.

 

Anyway time will tell, but GoG will have to make up it's mind eventually because doing the "edgy" joke and then apologising isn't pleasing anyone.

[Bojangle]

It keeps happening at GOG because their newly hired (Started in June) social media specialist is a gamergater.

[MK-1601]

Yeah, he needs firing.

 

 

[Hexx]

https://www.theguardian.com/games/2018/nov/07/red-dead-redemption-2-game-criticised-over-killing-of-suffragette

 

https://www.dexerto.com/entertainment/keemstar-calls-out-youtube-for-terminating-channel-of-player-who-killed-feminist-character-in-red-dead-redemption-2-213364

 

Quote

one YouTuber using the handle Shirrako uploaded a video of his avatar walking up to a suffragette character who is wearing a sash and calling out “Let me vote”, and beating her unconscious. The video, named “Red Dead Redemption 2 – Beating up annoying feminist” – has been seen more than 1.5m times.

Many of the comments underneath the video supported the actions. “Rockstar, making dreams a reality,” wrote one. “Why can’t we do this in real life?” wrote another. Other users said they had done similar things while playing the game.

But many viewers were concerned.

“This is a complicated problem with detailed, open world games that prioritise player choice,” wrote Emanuel Maiberg, managing editor of technology site Motherboard, on Twitter.

“What’s not complicated is that there’s a reservoir of video game players who hate women and get off on this.”

“This is how backwards, stupid and warped a portion of young men on the internet are,” wrote EckhartsLadder, a Star Wars YouTuber.

Shirrako followed up with several other videos showing his character attacking the woman, including one called “Dropping feminist to hell and killing the devil” that shows him lassooing the character and carrying her to a mine shaft which he drops her down. Another shows him feeding her to an alligator.

The videos raise further questions about sexism in video games and the gaming industry, which came to the fore during Gamergate, which saw feminist media critic Anita Sarkeesian become the target of widespread harassment and violent threats in response to her discussions of misogyny in video game culture

 

 

Quote

The player in question, going by the handle ‘Shirrako,’ uploaded a series of videos where they murdered a suffragette in a variety of ways, from dropping her down a mineshaft to feeding her to an alligator. 

YouTube has allegedly terminated Shirrako’s channel due to mass outrage over the videos - which KEEMSTAR is taking issue with.

“YouTube, we cannot take this stance,” KEEMSTAR implored. “We can’t say that what someone does in a video game is reflective of real life, somehow.”