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Gender Diversity / Politics in games (was Tropes Vs. Women)

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On 30/04/2017 at 09:54, Mentazm said:

I find them both as bad as each other. Two sides of the same coin. But you aren't allowed to say that around here.

 

I think you're as bad as getting fucked in the mouth while you sleep by an aids ridden tramp. Two sides of the same coin.

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On 30/04/2017 at 12:05, NEG said:

 

On a similar note I'm reminded of, listened to a podcast recently where both members of a couple were disturbed by Lego City (Wii U) of all things, but the point was valid. Every single male in the game is apparently 'stupid' for the sake of comedy and every female represented as 'clever'. What's that telling our kids that the game is aimed for, that you grow up to be stupid?

 

This stuff is certainly not being covered in equal measure right now as it is towards females. It's not popular to do so.

 

Every time I think I've gotten the measure of how utterly thick you are you manage to one up yourself. Are you literally mentally retarded or should I just be trying to find your old teachers and sue them for breach of contract?

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28 minutes ago, Broker said:

 

Every time I think I've gotten the measure of how utterly thick you are you manage to one up yourself. Are you literally mentally retarded or should I just be trying to find your old teachers and sue them for breach of contract?

 

Now you're chucking ableist insults around. Please stop.

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53 minutes ago, Broker said:

For the millionth time, I don't recall agreeing to try to raise any tones. 

 

How about behaving like an adult?   Give that a go?

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On 2017-5-3 at 19:02, clippa said:

i can't speak for all womenkind but that character seemed to have been designed by an excitable 14 year old boy. I tried to get into the whole shlocky cheesiness of it, and it really is so far over the top that it's parodying itself but it still feels a bit off. When she sticks her tongue out and the voiceover wife goes "uurnuhuur" I didn't know whether to cringe or laugh.

 

Judging by this video, you'd be surprised how long you've spent staring at firm, tight, bightable hunkbutt without realising it

 

 

 

23 hours ago, KRP said:

I'd rather be caught watching porn than playing Bayonetta.

 

With Bayonetta, is there are persuasive arguments from people who found her a positive and empowering character, who is more subversive than the cringeworthy, exploitative surface make her seem. Arguments that go some way beyond "but her character designer was female so she can't be sexist!" This is the most comprehensive article I've read on this:

 

https://www.pastemagazine.com/articles/2014/10/femme-doms-of-videogames-bayonetta-doesnt-care-if.html

 

And from the same publication:

https://www.pastemagazine.com/articles/2015/01/two-concepts-of-nudity-bayonetta-and-error404.html

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I remember when Bayonetta was as brought up when I went to a feminist society meet at my uni, the majority of the people there were on the side of the character being empowering . But again their reasons didn't go far beyond a woman being the character designer.

 

They also didn't know how to respond when I argued that Bayonetta is a game about prudishness (as in a fear of sex by religious and/or conservative types) where sex is weaponised. If anything that is where the empowerment theme actually comes from, a renegade woman fighting an establishment who's real life equivalent would be opposed to her and how she acts.

 

Makes me think most people still don't think too hard about games critically because they changed topic after I said that. But also at the I was the only person in the room who was trying to be a little objective about Bayonetta because I knew some people like Anita disliked the character and I was hoping the talk would move on to why people are split on it. It would have been a good conversation to have in hindsight because a lot of people are still in this mindset that feminism is this one big hive mind echo chamber.

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New show from FemFreq.

 

Some good stuff in this, and glad it touches on the patronising, indefensible 'China won't let us' horseshit that Hollywood likes to throw about when looking to excuse a bit of whitewashing.

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It doesn't matter whether Mentazm was trolling or not (I'm not buying that he was), but either way we shouldn't stoop to their level. 

 

I can't reply to defend myself as this thread is a safe space for those who fear male sexuality. Well done on enforcing your echo chamber rllmuk. Humanity will all be a grey sexless sludge soon enough.

 

And in the meantime Anita starts another series pointing out the obvious that everyone already knows to make us feel bad and make more money and you'll applaud her.

 

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34 minutes ago, Mentazm said:

 

I can't reply to defend myself as this thread is a safe space for those who fear male sexuality. Well done on enforcing your echo chamber rllmuk. Humanity will all be a grey sexless sludge soon enough.

 

And in the meantime Anita starts another series pointing out the obvious that everyone already knows to make us feel bad and make more money and you'll applaud her.

 

Milo says stuff he apparently doesn't believe to make money yet you champion him as your hero.

 

Why is that different to what you're claiming Anita is doing?

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You've also been keen to defend him several times for some reason. Presumably you changed your opinion when the majority of the gamergate crowd did too.

 

 

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This thread. A video gets posted and gets some interesting comments and debate. Not many posts but a few. But then someone like Neg, Mentzam, that really sexist guy who's name escapes me right now, comes in and says something stupid and offensive and thread lights up with pages of pointless back and forth.

 

It's fucking depressing.

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15 minutes ago, spork said:

You've also been keen to defend him several times for some reason. Presumably you changed your opinion when the majority of the gamergate crowd did too.

 

 

 

Don't think I've ever defended him. Didn't pay attention till he popped up on Joe Rogans podcasts, started slagging the NHS and praising the Royals, and I just thought he was a self-promoting ego maniac who'll say anything to get attention and money.

 

EDIT : In fact, I'm sure it was that first podcast where he praised his paedo priest, that the press dug out years later after he was on Bill Maher that led to his sacking and loss of book deal.

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4 hours ago, Mentazm said:

 

I can't reply to defend myself as this thread is a safe space for those who fear male sexuality.

 

 

This is the bit I always struggle with. I guess there's a lot of projection going on where these odd men who can't relate to women at all divert the blame for their own awkward failures onto feminism and the homogenisation of sexuality or some shit whilst angry wanking to anime, convincing themselves that somehow they are the ones secure in their broken idea of masculinity.

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2 hours ago, Mentazm said:

 

I can't reply to defend myself as this thread is a safe space for those who fear male sexuality. Well done on enforcing your echo chamber rllmuk. Humanity will all be a grey sexless sludge soon enough.

 

And in the meantime Anita starts another series pointing out the obvious that everyone already knows to make us feel bad and make more money and you'll applaud her.

 

Nobody can 'make' you feel bad.  You are responsible for your own emotions and feelings. 

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53 minutes ago, Illyria said:

Oh I'm so sorry Anita made you feel bad, Mentazm. It must be horrible, being a white male living in the UK, having these terrible people highlight the fact that sexism is a thing in the gaming industry (the production, the narrative, the art, the public discourse, etc) and showing you your privilege, pointing the harsh light of reality on you and forcing you to see things you don't want to see. Bad Anita! She is ruining your safe space.

 

 

On a less passive aggressive note, but very much related:

 

The first time I ever heard of Anita was months before her Kickstarter, when a friend of mine at university showed me a video of hers about Christmas songs. I vividly remember how she criticized Baby It's Cold Outside for being a bit rapey, you know. About a man forcing himself on a woman, filling her up with drinks, trying to get her to stay and have THE SEX with him. And I remember my first reaction being completely adverse. I didn't like what she was pointing out. I love my classic, American Christmas songs. I wanted to keep enjoying them. I didn't want to listen to them, decorating my Christmas tree, and then have to start thinking about such things. I didn't like Anita! I thought she was exaggerating, or even that she was seeing things that weren't there, to get attention online.

 

Oh boy.

 

Sound familiar?

 

All of those feelings, I had them while watching that first video I was introduced to. You know, when something you like gets criticized like that, it's normal to feel defensive, to maybe even dislike that person. It's a knee-jerk reaction. It feels like they're telling you "You're not allowed to enjoy this! Stop it!". How dare they try to take this from you?

 

It's been over 6 years since Anita forced that harsh light on me, and I am thankful she did it. Yes, I think about things now when I hear the song. The song and my enjoyment of it have changed in a way. I am more aware. And that's a good thing. So while I understand people reacting defensively at first, I can't believe when someone is so unwilling to open themselves to other opinions and views, to have their own challenged. You complain that this thread is an echo chamber, yet you're the one who is refusing to listen to others.

 

No one is trying to take your hobby away from you. No one is trying to emasculate you. This is not about you. It is about women. It is about the fact that sexism is something women feel every day, in smaller and in bigger ways, no matter what society they live in. It's in our every day interactions, it's in our careers, it's in all of the media we consume, it's in politics, it's in health care, it's everywhere. There is no safe space for us, because we can't escape it. It's a constant battle. And it's quite frankly astonishing how many people like to pretend men and women are born into a world of equal footing. All they see is black and white. "But they have the vote!" "But the mother has more rights than the father!" "THEY ALREADY HAVE EVERYTHING, WHY DO THEY TRY TO TAKE OUR GAAAAAMES"

 

Whether it's at work where I notice my female boss automatically being treated with less respect and admiration than her male counter parts, or in a game of Alien Swarm where you almost refused to even listen to my suggested strategy. Or, as a crude example, the moment I say something into my microphone, and a guy on the server goes "ahh, jizzed on my pants. Keep talking grill." Sexism is everywhere, I see and feel it every day, offline and online. There is no safe space from it. And this thread would certainly be one of the last places I'd look if I sought one.

Excellent post!

 

Mentazm will be along shortly to tell you how what you've said is 'obvious' and 'everyone knows this'.  I'm not sure why he thinks that is true. 

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9 minutes ago, Mentazm said:

I recommend you watch some Adam Curtis.

 

The greatest redpill of them all.

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