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Gender Diversity / Politics in games (was Tropes Vs. Women)


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14 hours ago, Qazimod said:

Mm, Borderlands 2 (I don't remember a lot of 1 and I haven't played the spinoffs) had a number of major and minor female and LGBT characters and they were kind of introduced in a matter-of-fact way rather than the game having to make a big deal about it. I remember one ECHO log in the wildlife preservation area where Jack mentions the wife of a female doctor when threatening her after she protests against his actions or something, and there's other stuff such as the bits Dudley mentioned above.

 

The writer of Borderlands 2 is the guy who does Hey Ash Whatcha Playing and he's pretty vocal about "social justice" stuff and how shitty GG are and always appears in their little collages of "cuck men". If he was a woman they'd be harassing him like mad.

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Not that you guys deserve it, but here's further contribution nonetheless.

 

 

33:30 for when Jeff gets asked about the butt stuff. Honestly I still respect him enough (from the WoW days) to know he isn't lying when he says the pose was being discussed internally anyway, and the forum post wasn't so much a reaction but a confirmation of their (the teams) thoughts. Mentions he wishes he'd dealt with the forum post differently, great discussion on his average work day and such when it comes to answering things like that. Blizzard are the type to think about every little stupid thing, so again, I believe him.

I think part of it has to do with WoW cynicism as, from a gameplay perspective, Blizzard had also been gaining the reputation of 'caving' to anything brought up to them. I think that's more to do with whichever teams left handling WoW, as everything else Blizzard has done hasn't the same issue imo.

Oh, and he mentions the new pose is still 'over the shoulder'. So yay.

 

http://www.kotaku.co.uk/2016/04/06/overwatch-replaces-butt-pose-with-strut-pose

And here it is. Better indeed. :)

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Apparently the new pose is an up yours to SJW's? Because the bum is now more prominent? I can''t understand any thought process that GG-ers seem to follow, it's really like reading something about the land of Dr. Seuss for all the sense any of it makes.

 

I'm disappointed that Kotaku allow such bollocks comments on their pages but unfortunately they probably couldn't give two shits about hordes of their readership being misogynistic eejits.

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3 hours ago, b00dles said:

Apparently the new pose is an up yours to SJW's? Because the bum is now more prominent? I can''t understand any thought process that GG-ers seem to follow, it's really like reading something about the land of Dr. Seuss for all the sense any of it makes.

 

Yup, this has blown me away. Ignoring the fact that new pose says  "Whoo whey hey!", and old pose says "Mmmm, you like my bum?" and instead seemingly focusing on the amount of pixels the bum takes up on the screen, suggests these guys have difficult parsing real human interaction, body language and thoughts.

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In response to criticism Beamdog have made some changes to Balder's Gate:Dragonspear.

 

http://www.usgamer.net/articles/baldurs-gate-ee-dev-handles-controversy-with-a-delayed-but-perfect-response

 

 

Quote

 

"We've received feedback around Mizhena, a supporting character who reveals she is transgender. In retrospect, it would have been better served if we had introduced a transgender character with more development," wrote Beamdog CEO Trent Oster in a forum post. "This is a lesson we will be carrying forward in our development as creators and we will be improving this character in a future update." 

"Minsc has a line which generated controversy. Looking back on the line, we agree with the feedback from our community, it has nothing to do with his character and we will be removing the line," he added. "We've received valuable feedback around some bugs we failed to catch for ship. We're hard at work right now patching up the issues that slipped through and we're striving to ship fixes and improvements quickly. We will provide a complete list of the issues we plan to address in our next update." 

"While we appreciate all feedback we receive from our fans, both positive as well as negative, some of the negative feedback has focused not on Siege of Dragonspear but on individual developers at Beamdog -- to the point of online threats and harassment," Oster continued. "I just want to make it crystal clear that Beamdog does not condone this behavior, and moreover that it will not have the desired effect as we stand behind all our developers 100%. We created the game as a group, and moving forward we'll work on the game's issues as a group, which I believe is exactly as it should be."

 

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1 hour ago, Gambit said:

GG continue the fight against censorship while they get a game censored.

 

To be fair that Minsc line is not only out of character but it's a reference that will (hopefully) end up being quite dated. In this case I think the change is for the better.

 

And complaining about Mizhena being 'token' has lead to Beamdog looking at expanding her role in later games which is a good thing.

 

Steam review bombing is becoming a bit of a thing and it's making me think user reviews were a huge mistake.

 

 

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I found this a particularly sad experience because I had been taking a close interest in the development of the game, watching a lot of the streams which included Amber in the buildup to release, and I'm glad Beamdog responded as they did (damned either way with taking the Minsc remark out of course, with many saying they will mod it right back in).  Never can so many words have been posted with such little direct experience of the issue.  Another woman in the firing line.

 

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On 3/14/2016 at 11:20 AM, K said:

Yeah, “don’t feed the trolls” is not very useful advice when people are being actively sought out and harassed, i.e. that lady who works in Nintendo’s localisation department. It’s like being told that it takes two to tango while you’re sat quietly watching TV and there’s a man shouting “I can smell your tits!” over and over again through your letterbox.

 

Biffo has now written a post about this very case:

 

http://www.digitiser2000.com/main-page/alison-rapp-nintendo-and-the-endlessly-repeating-cycle-of-abuse-by-mr-biffo

 

...

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See I must be fucking blind because it reads to me that the only thing someone who's been a victim of harrassment can do is not talk about it publicly at all. PROBLEM SOLVED!

 

All she needs to do is shut her trap. Which is what her harrassers wanted in the first place.

 

I have to be wrong, that's not what Mr Biffo is saying is it?

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Either grin and bear it, or stop using the internet.

 

I also like how he thinks that the revelation that she was a sex worker means that the support she received was misguided.  What a div.

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Yep, it's your standard 'Hey, I'm not a Gamergater, but what if, get this, they may not be so bad and might have a point guys?' article.

 

Starts off by making sure that you know that the author really doesn't care about this subject.

 

Then makes sure that you know 100% absolutely positively that the author isn't a Gamergater, followed by a buuuuuuuuuut...

 

Plenty of victim blamings, classes her being rightly upset on Twitter as 'stoking the fires'. Aknoweledges that this only happened due to a bunch of sociopaths obessively trawling through her entire life history, but then follows it up with a variation of if you've got nothing to be scared of if you have nothing to hide. Straight out says she should have just shut up when receiving abuse and by not doing so was encouraging it.

 

Fuck me, this is just horrible - "identifies as having a mood/personality disorder".

 

Use of scare quotes around Gamergaters.

 

Poorly interpreted science.

 

Rinse and repeat when next week we have another long article by someone who really doesn't care about this at all.

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The big problem with Biffo's analysis is that the Karpman triangle was developed to analyse behaviours and the "victim" role has nothing to do with actual victims. He has failed consistently to demonstrate any of the classic victim behaviours in people he's subjecting these analyses, while diving headlong into the "rescuer" pathology himself.

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14 minutes ago, PK said:

I also like how he thinks that the revelation that she was a sex worker means that the support she received was misguided.  What a div.

Did the "sex worker" stuff ever get any more substantiation than the fact that she had a profile on a shifty site and a public Amazon wishlist? Genuinely haven't been keeping track of this.

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It's a "great" article though. It would totally shame anyone who had been a victim of harrassment or worse into just shutting up, refusing help (from people who are probably only helping you for their own selfish reasons) and just dealing with it stoicly. And more importantly, quietly.

 

Victims, just don't be victims. The only ones deserving of help are those who would shun help.

 

Rescuers, don't assist people who look like they're being bullied. You're just being slefish and if they aren't the Virgin Mary you'll just look silly.

 

Harrassers, you scamps. No-ones asking you to change!

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At least the latest one seems self-contained bollocks and isn't a bollocks clarification of a bollocks clarification of a load of bollocks.

 

That's a net gain of (at least) 4 bollocks.

 

I do want to defend him really, it's clearly a lot of pressure to generate such a vast amount of output and being so involved day-to-day in the games world does make it seem like he should respond. But it would be a lot better if he'd either take longer writing and checking things so it says what he wants it to (and judging by comments on the last ones, he clearly didn't spend much time thinking about what he'd written beforehand) or just not saying anything. It'd almost be better if he was properly pro-gg as at least that wouldn't be a pile of wishy-washy "but, ".

 

I've definitely got to stop reading them, but I clicked on the Rapp article in exactly the same way I'd look at a car-crash. I knew what I'd be seeing, I didn't want to and clickety-click.

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