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Gender Diversity / Politics in games (was Tropes Vs. Women)


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The harassment campaign against Alison Rapp was bad but so were her repeated comments, both in her published thesis and in numerous tweets (even recent ones), about how child porn laws should be more lax and 'men who like kids' shouldn't be judged and that 'child sexual agency' should be taken into account.

 

The fact that Gamergate and other misogynists seized on this as a convenient plank of their argument doesn't make it something actually worth defending or minimizing, it's fucking horrible.

 

Also I think it's weird that this is the Last Straw for people rather than, for instance, Nintendo's use of conflict minerals in manufacturing their hardware. It feels like gamergate has distorted everyone's view of what's actually going on, even those who are opposed to it - now it's just 'if gamergate wants something we automatically take the other side completely'.

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14 minutes ago, John0 said:

Oh God some fucking idiot has made a video compilation of male arses in games in "response" to the Overwatch thing.

I was blissfully unaware of the whole Overwatch thing until I read this thread. What a fucking ridiculous thing for people to get their knickers in their twist over. It's a pose. It has no impact on gameplay whatsoever, so why the fuss when Blizzard decide not to use it ( because it really is exactly the sort of pose that makes women go "oh for fucks sake") And people are making videos about the decision? Really? Time to take a step back and look at what you are actually wasting time and energy crying over.

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47 minutes ago, ZOK said:

Can't somebody organise a boycott of Nintendo over this?

 

I'll stop buying their products myself, but as the last thing of theirs I bought was Wii Music it probably isn't going to make much of a dent.

 

 

Count me out. In my country we can't organise or take part in a consumer boycott that might commerically damage a corporation.

 

Also worth noting that the woman who was let go has said on twitter that she doesn't feel people should blame Nintendo about this.

 

I do want to also say that I had some truly incredible coworkers at Nintendo, and I'd love it if you continued to support them. <3

 

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46 minutes ago, ZOK said:

Can't somebody organise a boycott of Nintendo over this?

 

I'll stop buying their products myself, but as the last thing of theirs I bought was Wii Music it probably isn't going to make much of a dent.

 

http://kotaku.com/nintendo-employee-terminated-after-smear-campaign-over-1768100368

 

She was sacked for Moonlighting, which she has now admitted.

 

So in this regard it's a good thing that Nintendo have been shown not to be bowing to anything.

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2 minutes ago, PeteBrant said:

http://kotaku.com/nintendo-employee-terminated-after-smear-campaign-over-1768100368

 

She was sacked for Moonlighting, which she has now admitted.

 

So in this regard it's a good thing that Nintendo have been shown not to be bowing to anything.

 

Well, that's a creative way of looking at it, if I'm being charitable.

 

Sort your head out, Pete.

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7 minutes ago, Rudi von Starnberg said:

The harassment campaign against Alison Rapp was bad but so were her repeated comments, both in her published thesis and in numerous tweets (even recent ones), about how child porn laws should be more lax and 'men who like kids' shouldn't be judged and that 'child sexual agency' should be taken into account.

 

The fact that Gamergate and other misogynists seized on this as a convenient plank of their argument doesn't make it something actually worth defending or minimizing, it's fucking horrible.

 

Also I think it's weird that this is the Last Straw for people rather than, for instance, Nintendo's use of conflict minerals in manufacturing their hardware. It feels like gamergate has distorted everyone's view of what's actually going on, even those who are opposed to it - now it's just 'if gamergate wants something we automatically take the other side completely'.

 

I hadn't seen those tweets and if they're there they are either

 

a) pretty twisted views

 

or

 

b) proof positive that complicated ideas shouldn't be condensed into 140 characters.

 

I don't think anyone here is suddenly going to defend or condone the exploitation of children because of this.

 

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1 minute ago, Shoes said:

What does Rapp's opinions about child pornography got to do with anything, though?

 

In most jobs, but especially in PR tweeting something supporting the exploitation of children is pretty much an instant dismissal offence. Even if it's a private account.

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Her opinions are not the issue, and I can't believe that anyone who posts here is stupid enough to think that they are.

 

The issue is that a group of internet psychopaths have chosen to target a random woman at a games company for mass smearing simply because they have erroneously decided that she has political opinions different to theirs. Which is being charitable once again...the real reason is their 'movement' needs to be continually fed with women to attack.

 

It's disgusting, and Nintendo are disgusting for playing into their hands.

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15 minutes ago, PeteBrant said:

I was blissfully unaware of the whole Overwatch thing until I read this thread. What a fucking ridiculous thing for people to get their knickers in their twist over. It's a pose. It has no impact on gameplay whatsoever, so why the fuss when Blizzard decide not to use it ( because it really is exactly the sort of pose that makes women go "oh for fucks sake") And people are making videos about the decision? Really? Time to take a step back and look at what you are actually wasting time and energy crying over.

 

It's so ridiculous it's angering me on a daily basis at the moment. Every day I go on to reddit and see some stupid meme or video or pisstake of Blizzard's decision to remove a single pose from *their* game getting thousands of upvotes and positive comments. Fucks sake.

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6 minutes ago, ZOK said:

 

Well, that's a creative way of looking at it, if I'm being charitable.

 

Sort your head out, Pete.

What the fuck is this shit? Nintendo said they sacked her for a thing, she has agreed. It has nothing to do with her harrassment, which is of course, dreadful. If there is any positive, it is that Nintendo have not sacked her for other reason related to GG.

 

"Sort my head out" fuck off!

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5 minutes ago, Unofficial Who said:

 

In most jobs, but especially in PR tweeting something supporting the exploitation of children is pretty much an instant dismissal offence. Even if it's a private account.

 

She was supporting exploitation of children?

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15 minutes ago, Rudi von Starnberg said:

The harassment campaign against Alison Rapp was bad but so were her repeated comments, both in her published thesis and in numerous tweets (even recent ones), about how child porn laws should be more lax and 'men who like kids' shouldn't be judged and that 'child sexual agency' should be taken into account.

 

The fact that Gamergate and other misogynists seized on this as a convenient plank of their argument doesn't make it something actually worth defending or minimizing, it's fucking horrible.

 

Also I think it's weird that this is the Last Straw for people rather than, for instance, Nintendo's use of conflict minerals in manufacturing their hardware. It feels like gamergate has distorted everyone's view of what's actually going on, even those who are opposed to it - now it's just 'if gamergate wants something we automatically take the other side completely'.

Like anyone's going to read a thesis. Or tweets.

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4 minutes ago, ZOK said:

, and Nintendo are disgusting for playing into their hands.

This is bollocks mate. If she walked up and punched someone in the face at work and got the sack, is that Nintendo bowing to pressure? This is no different, she has effectively been sacked for gross misconduct. 

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What was it she actually did to awaken the ancient evil?  I've seen references to her being involved in the localisation of some game that was interpreted as censorship, but why would a PR bod be involved in that?

 

(I would click that Kotaku link, but I'm concerned about dodgy anime bikini girls raising eyebrows at work)

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2 minutes ago, ZOK said:

Don't be a fucking moron. It's tiresome enough when the genuine idiots who post here do it.

Well the reason given by Nintendo, and accepted by Rapp is pretty clear, but you put whatever spin you like on it. I'm not interested in rowing with you about it.

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3 minutes ago, PK said:

What was it she actually did to awaken the ancient evil?  I've seen references to her being involved in the localisation of some game that was interpreted as censorship, but why would a PR bod be involved in that?

 

She wasn't involved in any localisation, it seems the original thing was they didn't her talking about the topics they don't like.

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2 minutes ago, PeteBrant said:

Well the reason given by Nintendo, and accepted by Rapp is pretty clear, but you put whatever spin you like on it. I'm not interested in rowing with you about it.

 

If you can't see that the only reason this is even a situation for this particular employee is that an internet hate mob has chosen this woman as their current victim, I am stunned.


As for her 'accepting' the Nintendo claim, what else do you expect her to do? She presumably wants to be able to work again for a company in the industry at some point, and minimising the noise surrounding this situation is the only course of action that will give her any chance of that.

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13 hours ago, geekette said:

A nice illustration of gender role reversals: http://1.1.1.2/bmi/41.media.tumblr.com/4c308be610f0af94a165df6c969635e2/tumblr_o4ftsphLBz1r34y4ho5_500.png


Also another trailer for DOAX3, showing the bum-bumping battle game, the upskirt camera angles, the skimpy outfits and the super-immature mannerisms, plus if you watch to the end the way you can interact with characters through the touch screen, by poking their boobs or lifting their skirts. There is such a lot to miss out on if the European localisation doesn't happen due to SJW censorship: 

Spoiler



 

 

 

The balls of gamergate to complain about Rapp's opinions on the age of consent and then go on a rampage about this not getting a release. In the opening few seconds, THERE'S LITERALLY AN OLD SLEAZY GUY OGLING PRE-PUBESCENT GIRLS BEHIND HIS SUNGLASSES.

 

It's like a BrassEye special.

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11 minutes ago, macosx said:

I thought she was dismissed for having a second job. Something she says was ok with Nintendo policy.

 

Ninentendo are looking like they threw someone under the bus.

Depends what the second job is, and who it is for. Given her stance this morning is "fair cop , guv". Nintendo aren't looking anything of the sort.

15 minutes ago, ZOK said:

 

If you can't see that the only reason this is even a situation for this particular employee is that an internet hate mob has chosen this woman as their current victim, I am stunned.


As for her 'accepting' the Nintendo claim, what else do you expect her to do? She presumably wants to be able to work again for a company in the industry at some point, and minimising the noise surrounding this situation is the only course of action that will give her any chance of that.

What did I just say?

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As Alex mentioned earlier, this is why privacy and surveillance concerns should be terrifying to everyone. The extent these 'humans' went to, digging dirt, I can't think of a word to describe such 'humans'.

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So, if I'm understanding this all correctly, Nintendo's reasoning behind Rapp being sacked is her moonlighting, which they say is not allowed, and she says is allowed. This part of it seems fairly straightforward; if her contract explicitly stated that she was not allowed to do so, then I can understand at least how something of a compromise has been reached between her and Nintendo. What happened to her was shitty, and I think in the circumstances I'd have preferred them to have kept her on a statement to the harassers out there and as a message of good faith to Rapp. Without knowing all the discussions that went on between her and Nintendo however, it's still pretty hard to avoid Alex W's point above that however you look at it, and whatever breach of contract happened, it still only came to light because of abuse and doxxing. Not a good look for Nintendo at all.

 

On the other hand, if there was no explicit prohibition of moonlighting in her contract (and given that there's conflicting information from different sources on this, I suspect that even if it's in there, it's not exactly clearly stated) then this feels like a terrible decision, especially if it was based on information scrounged up about the nature of her second job (which I don't want to look into, but Nintendo's stuff about her being 'out of line with their corporate image' does not sound positive). If this is the case I hope she fights it; easy for me to say when I'm not the person who would be jeopardising their chance at further industry work, as well as opening themselves up to months or years of abuse from 'gaters, though.

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As far as the pragmatics of the situation go, Nintendo have attempted to head off a pre-NX PR disaster that only really existed in the minds of an internet clique, and inadvertently converted it into a fresh new one that exists across the mainstream games media.

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1 hour ago, Shoes said:

 

She was supporting exploitation of children?

 

I haven't dug up the actual tweets but selective quoting would be enough for most organisations. It's basic risk management and every time the employee < the organisation.

 

We don't know and will never know what happened but I think we're assuming she had a nice little chat with HR on the way out of the building. I know who who've suddenly been dismissed and it involved HR and security meeting them at their desk with a check for a few months work or their contract paid out and a cardboard box to take their stuff home in.

 

I'm surprised it's taken this long for Nintendo to terminate her contract (and had actually assumed after all this time they were going to stand behind their employees) because most companies wouldn't deal with that sort of disruption and fairly or not will terminate the employee involved for the safety of other staff and the smooth running of their business. (There's loads of cases down this way where women find it difficult to retain or gain employment due to the harrassment from on ex husband, ex boyfriend or stalker. A literal army of such would make it more likely.)

 

I've said this before but again we have this issue of distributed harrasment where the responsibility is broken up into little chunks so that the subject  has little or no legal recourse. Zoe Quinn was harrassed by people who made public their goals and gloated every time they committed what used to be a crime against her. Two years of constant harrasment, with most of the evidence self documented. No charges.

 

There's an old Chinese proverb that a law that isn't enforced isn't actually a law. Having driven several women out of the industry and having gotten away with harrassing at least two high profile women for YEARS now it's now wonder that they felt pretty damn confident of a result here.

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