Jump to content

Gender Diversity / Politics in games (was Tropes Vs. Women)


Unofficial Who
 Share

Recommended Posts

Youtube 'recommended' a video by the Sargon guy I've linked in the past (froggy future dude) the other day and the main point I'd like to make today is the video had eighty thousand likes. It was only 2 days old.

 

I think I'll go make a coffee.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

It's things like this , and I'm  someone who is purposely avoiding the whole gg thing , that just baffle me . I mean in what other industry outside of the porn business would this be acceptable or even considered? If I went to my boss and suggested that we promote our business with sexy school girls I would up for a disciplinary.  

 

But MS (who are presumably not purposely avoiding the whole gg and women in gaming issue , as evidenced by the awards session they sponsored) decide that in fact this is completely acceptable and indeed a desirable marketing tool .

 

it is plainly obvious that attitudes need to change , and when you have one of the major players in the gaming industry doing shit like this it is plain that it is going to take a very long time . 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

3 hours ago, Shoes said:

There's also the usual "if there were men dancing there'd be no fuss"

 

According to some people I know who were at the party there were also male dancers.  This also was in a single area of the place, there were also quieter rooms/areas for talking/relaxing.  I expect MS hired a company to organise things then okay-ed it without really checking the details.  And despite it being at GDC I don't think anyone in the IEB (or whatever they're calling in now) division who have been involved in setting it up.  If you've seen Phil's response you'll see he takes this sort of thing seriously, as do many at MS - there's a reason they sponsor things like the Women In Games lunch, which was earlier the same day.  As the Eurogamer commenters miss it's about what it says about your company, about the sort of people you want in the place, everything you do publicly reflects on you.  Shouldn't have happened.

 

This email apparently went round the XBox group: http://www.theverge.com/2016/3/18/11264930/xbox-gdc-2016-sexist-event-response

 

 

Quote

 

How we show up as an organization is incredibly important to me. We want to build and reflect the culture of team Xbox - internally and externally - a culture that each one of us can represent with pride. An inclusive culture has a direct impact on the products and services we deliver and the perception consumers have of the Xbox brand and our company, as a whole.

It has come to my attention that at Xbox-hosted events at GDC this past week, we represented Xbox and Microsoft in a way that was absolutely not consistent or aligned to our values. That was unequivocally wrong and will not be tolerated. This matter is being handled internally, but let me be very clear - how we represent ourselves as individuals, who we hire and partner with and how we engage with others is a direct reflection of our brand and what we stand for. When we do the opposite, and create an environment that alienates or offends any group, we justly deserve the criticism.

It's unfortunate that such events could take place in a week where we worked so hard to engage the many different gaming communities in the exact opposite way. I am personally committed to ensuring that diversity and inclusion is central to our everyday business and our core values as a team – inside and outside the company. We need to hold ourselves to higher standards and we will do better in the future.

 

 

 

Spoiler
Spoiler

Stupid new interface

 

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

There were a few great responses in that comments thread though (if you were willing to dig deep enough past all the usual shit):

 

 

Quote

You like tits. I like tits too. Now grow up and realise there's no medal for that. There are very few workplaces and/or work-related environments where this kind of booking would be acceptable and I struggle to think of what they would be. Regardless, the games industry isn't one of them.

 

 

Having continued, that was the only genuinely good response in the entire thread. :(

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Quote

Blizzard to remove Overwatch pose accused of reducing Tracer to “another bland female sex symbol”

 

Blizzard will replace the 'over-the-shoulder' victory pose for Overwatch hero Tracer in response to a fan who complained it "undermines" much of the good work the game has done to promote a roster of diverse, strong female characters.

The pose, below, is one of a number that's currently available to Tracer in the Overwatch beta and if unlocked by a player, is used as part of their team lineup at the end of a match. Assuming they win, that is. The pose, as you can see, focuses attention on Tracer's butt.

 

145923720091.jpg

 

"What about this pose has anything to do with the character you're building in Tracer?" asked Overwatch fan Fipps in a three-day old post on Battle.net. "It's not fun, its[sic] not silly, it has nothing to do with being a fast elite killer. It just reduces Tracer to another bland female sex symbol."

 

Fipps goes on to argue that, unlike poses for heroes such as Widowmaker, "who is in part defined by flaunting her sexuality", Tracer's victory pose is out of character and has been included, primarily, to sell more copies of the game.

 

After a couple of days of fairly reasonable discussion, Overwatch game director, Jeff Kaplanresponded to the forum post to confirm the team had decided to replace the pose.

 

"The last thing we want to do is make someone feel uncomfortable, under-appreciated or misrepresented," said Kaplan. "Apologies and we'll continue to try to do better."

 

In the hours following that reply, this topic - unsurprisingly - blew up. Despite being temporarily locked, the original forum thread has now seen hundreds of replies. Some expressed support for Blizzard's decision. Others voiced their disappointment that Blizzard had bowed down to what they see as a "SJW rhetoric".

 

This prompted a follow-up post from Kaplan who clarified that although influenced by the forum discussion, the Overwatch team had been unsure about this particular pose for some time now.

 

"We understand that not everyone will agree with our decision, and that's okay," said Kaplan. "This wasn't pandering or caving, though. This was the right call from our perspective, and we think the game will be just as fun the next time you play it."

 

This isn't the first time Blizzard has addressed concerns about the way in which it designs female characters. At a Blizzcon press conference in 2014, designer Chris Metzen talked about how the team was trying to improve the way in which they tackle gender with Overwatch.

 

"We've heard our female employees," he said. "And my daughter tools me out about it. She saw a World of Warcraft cinematic of the Dragon Aspects, and my daughter was like, 'Why are they all in swimsuits?' And I was like, 'I don't know. I don't know anymore.'"

 

 

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Being on NeoGAF for a few days has exposed me to some of the stuff which Gamergaters think are being censored. I will admit to playing quite a lot of the first DOAX, but looking at their thread DOAX3 really does seem to be focussed towards the younger end of the character spectrum which makes me really uncomfortable. The same goes for a few other seemingly Japanese PS4 exclusive loli games that they screenshot. 

 

I must admit, that I thought I was going to find a hotbed of Men's Rights Activism and I didn't, which I suppose was cool. But I didn't find any anti GG stuff or any counterpoint to the PS4 screenshots. This is perhaps because I wasn't looking hard enough, though.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

http://www.pointandclickbait.com/2016/03/developers-creative-freedom/

 

Quote

Upset Gamer Clarifies: Developer’s Creative Freedom Only Applies For “Stuff I Agree With”

 

A online champion of free speech and artistic liberty has issued a hurried clarification to explain that when they said that “nobody must be allowed to impinge upon the creative freedom of game developers”, what they really meant was “as long as it’s on an issue I agree with”.

 

The activist, 33-year old Brent Manning, issued the clarification after he realised this meant he would be forced to support decisions that he personally didn’t like, such as not being allowed to ogle pre-pubescent women.

 

“Let me be very clear about this,” Manning explained. “I support the absolute and inviolable right of game developers to pursue their creative vision in full. Nothing is more sacred or important than that.”

 

“Except for the following things: titties, asses, titties and asses, customisable costumes which let me see those titties and/or asses, blood, gore, sexual violence, and of course, breast physics.”

 

“Any creative decisions which result in me being denied access to these things are absolutely unacceptable.”

 

Manning explains that he’s not calling for developers to censor themselves (he’s not some kind of “outraged SJW“) but he’d like them to consider his feelings a bit more carefully in the future.

 

“Hardcore gamers like me… we’re the ones who really love games, who love them unconditionally. And it’s because of our absolute and unconditional love for developers and our total support of everything they do that we’re able to stand up and speak out about this.”

 

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

28 minutes ago, b00dles said:

It still boggles the mind how you can't just read that, look at the picture and go "yeah, it is a bit of a silly pose, fair enough" but instead go into apoplectic rage about censorship and SJW's.

 

Poor old oppressed TotalBiscuit felt the need to make a painfully unfunny 'parody' video.

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ydii76-1l5w

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Ignoring who is on each side of the argument, the Overwatch one is a bit of a tricky one. In most games, yes, obviously it's just stupid male designers not thinking, but if you've consciously made a diverse cast with interesting characters, why is it a bad thing that one shows off their arse? Surely that's part of their interesting and diverse personality? It would be better to not put it in in the first place, but I do think it'd be better to justify it when people question it rather than removing it.

 

(I've never played it and probably never will, as if it needed stating.)

Link to comment
Share on other sites

3 minutes ago, Rev said:

Ignoring who is on each side of the argument, the Overwatch one is a bit of a tricky one. In most games, yes, obviously it's just stupid male designers not thinking, but if you've consciously made a diverse cast with interesting characters, why is it a bad thing that one shows off their arse? Surely that's part of their interesting and diverse personality? It would be better to not put it in in the first place, but I do think it'd be better to justify it when people question it rather than removing it.

 

(I've never played it and probably never will, as if it needed stating.)

Well, from reading that post on the previous page, that particular diverse character is covered by another character in the game and that pose is out of character for the character it was used on. Doesn't seem difficult.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

9 minutes ago, Rev said:

Ignoring who is on each side of the argument, the Overwatch one is a bit of a tricky one. In most games, yes, obviously it's just stupid male designers not thinking, but if you've consciously made a diverse cast with interesting characters, why is it a bad thing that one shows off their arse? Surely that's part of their interesting and diverse personality? It would be better to not put it in in the first place, but I do think it'd be better to justify it when people question it rather than removing it.

 

(I've never played it and probably never will, as if it needed stating.)

 

I've not played it either but that seems to be addressed in the article - one of the players who'd criticised the pose quoted mentions that it seems out of character, which is what makes it unpalatable to them as opposed to the similarly sexualised poses of the character Widowmaker, also from Overwatch, as she's written as a character who flaunts her sexuality.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

2 minutes ago, Wiper said:

 

I've not played it either but that seems to be addressed in the article - one of the players who'd criticised the pose quoted mentions that it seems out of character, which is what makes it unpalatable to them as opposed to the similarly sexualised poses of the character Widowmaker, also from Overwatch, as she's written as a character who flaunts her sexuality.

 

I'm not sure one moment of ass-pose is the same as flaunting her sexuality, it's just one pose that most gals of approximately that age would happily upload to Instagram. It seems healthier to justify it than it does to remove it.

 

Obviously they should have done a better job in the first place, but I don't think just removing it is that helpful to the conversation.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
 Share

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    • No registered users viewing this page.
×
×
  • Create New...

Important Information

We have placed cookies on your device to help make this website better. You can adjust your cookie settings, otherwise we'll assume you're okay to continue. Use of this website is subject to our Privacy Policy, Terms of Use, and Guidelines.