Jump to content

Gender Diversity / Politics in games (was Tropes Vs. Women)


Unofficial Who
 Share

Recommended Posts

12 minutes ago, Alex W. said:

It's not even action that needs to be done in most cases, aside from guys like Milo who are literally sicking trolls on people. In most cases it's just a question of getting through people's thick skulls that maybe their support for Gamergate is propping up a bunch of regressive crap.

 

I don't think that's been working for the majority. Surely some of the stuff Milo has said (preferably towards another person) has been terrible enough to do some sort of legal action? Especially when this person cares enough to always point out it's himself that's saying it (verified on twitter, etc). If anything not acting like a Anonymous group is going to bite him in the long run.

 

On the other hand I also doubt even 50% of GG support comes from listening to him. It's the general atmosphere of the subject that's been tainted and not much to do with figure heads. Could be wrong.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

2 hours ago, Alex W. said:

 

I like most of what Biffo writes, I think he just bought into Gamergate early on out of his own mistrust of games journos and this is the latest step in his self-de-brainwashing process. He's become a lot more lucid about it over time.

 

I don't think he ever bought into it, he's basically just consistently taken the piss out of it, albeit in a fairly light way, for the past year or so.

This piece was a low point and I think he was majorly wrong with the comment about telling sex attack victims to get over it otherwise they will turn into victims (?) but he did go to lengths to say he is definitely not a GG fan. Which most of these "Well both sides are bad ..." articles generally don't.

 

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

 

45 minutes ago, Gizamaluke said:

I'm not sure what's worse. Jez ignoring anything that challenges and probably needing serious psychiatric help, or NEG reading and watching everything that gets posted and yet still coming up with the most ridiculous rubbish.

 

LOL

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, Anne Summers said:

 

I don't think he ever bought into it, he's basically just consistently taken the piss out of it, albeit in a fairly light way, for the past year or so.

This piece was a low point and I think he was majorly wrong with the comment about telling sex attack victims to get over it otherwise they will turn into victims (?) but he did go to lengths to say he is definitely not a GG fan. Which most of these "Well both sides are bad ..." articles generally don't.

 

 

He's not a GG fan, but he does buy into a lot of the ideas that were and are espoused by it in a big way. It was only a few months ago that he was writing about how Zoe Quinn herself should just be shutting herself away and not doing things like writing a biography.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

There's an interesting exchange with him in the comments section which casts quite a sad light on his article:

 

Mr Biffo 
11/3/2016 11:36:22
 

Yeah... when it spills over into harassment or becomes threatening - that's when it crosses the line, obviously. That's when the police potentially needs to get involved. And that's what I had to do in 2008 - the grief I was getting reached a tipping point. I chose not to follow up with the police thing - I mean, they had the names and addresses of the people responsible - but I instead wanted to try just stepping away. And it worked, y'know.

It sucks that I had to do that, and in some respects it stalled my career, disappearing like that, but it saved my sanity. It's amazing what passive resistance can do - I just took away what they wanted, which was my engagement, and them being able to see that they were getting to me. I could've chosen to hit back - and try to hurt them like I was being affected - but it took me years to realise that it was exactly what they wanted, and all it did was fuel the harassment.

 
11/3/2016 12:33:59
 

Glad it worked for you, Bifflord, but "just step away" halts young careers, and seems less and less feasible in the Always_Connected years since 2008, especially the way women (and their families) are pursued, especially those that are Doxxed, and now it's all on such a "readymade hate-gang" scale. It's not giving them what they want, but if you give up (for a bit), you still kinda Lose.

Alas. There is no easy answer (nor sufficient support) for the harassed. I hope I don't seem to diminish your experience.

 
11/3/2016 13:20:10
 

btw I recognise that readymade hategangs exist for those who accidentally be a little bit racist etc. too.

 
Mr Biffo 
11/3/2016 12:40:55
 

Colin - no, not at all. And you make a good point. I think it's just a hot button issue for me, because I went through it - to a degree. I don't for a second compare my experience to what some have been through with the Doxxing and whatnot. But I guess I just don't want anyone else to feel as shite as I did. I know the damage it can do.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

8 minutes ago, Protocol Penguin said:

Gah, depressing to see that Biffo is 'one of them'. Won't be donating anothet penny to his website.

 

If you've not been reading his website, you're probably not quite getting value from your donations anyway.

 

There seems to be a feeling amongst older members of the gaming community that GamerGate raises enough valid points to be considered, rather than something that should be dismissed as a parade of woman-hating scum and anything relevant it brings up raised separately.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

57 minutes ago, Rudi von Starnberg said:

He means 'Biffo, toonfool, and the Pickfords', which probably isn't enough to be a statistical trend really.

 

American McGee, Brad Wardell, Denis Dyack...

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Come on, Biffo's "support" (not really support as he has denounced it openly several times) is in no way on the same level as Pickfords' or Toonfools, let alone the full-on Rockstarjez'z of the world. 

I don't agree with taking a "If you're not 100% with us, you're the enemy" stance on things like this. It's what "they" (GG) say that "we" (SJWs) do, and like most of those things they say, it's wrong. 

 

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, Broker said:

 

Dyack is a lying criminal though, so maybe not worth including.

 

I'll remove him ASAP, I'd hate to spoil the reputation of GamerGate.

 

That is (sort of) the point I was making. They're all there for different reasons. I don't really think any of them have taken to the real core stuff, just the katamari has picked up a few opinions they agree with and because of that they've let it carry them along whilst ignoring the horrific shit that they're now rolling around with.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

American McGee is the only one I am vaguely disappointed in. Mainly because I loved the original American McGee's Alice (I know I was relatively alone on that one).Brad Wardell and almost all of the other "prominent" devs who are pro-gg are all people who are open about being very conservative and right wing. I guess McGee is too but I've never read about his political views. Great creative talent doesn't usually tend to stem from closed minds so it's surprising when it does, I guess. And McGee is absolutely the only gg-aligned dev I can think of who could be termed "great" in any way, the others are pretty small fish from what I can tell. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

8 hours ago, Anne Summers said:

American McGee is the only one I am vaguely disappointed in. Mainly because I loved the original American McGee's Alice (I know I was relatively alone on that one).Brad Wardell and almost all of the other "prominent" devs who are pro-gg are all people who are open about being very conservative and right wing. I guess McGee is too but I've never read about his political views. Great creative talent doesn't usually tend to stem from closed minds so it's surprising when it does, I guess. And McGee is absolutely the only gg-aligned dev I can think of who could be termed "great" in any way, the others are pretty small fish from what I can tell. 

 

 

Yeah, it leaves me in two minds when friends ask me for examples of games with feminist narratives. (Has happened once or twice, not everyday obviously.) I used to hold up Alice:Madness Returns as one of the best, but now I feel that doing so would be disrespectful of the creators political views. I still think it's one of the most beautiful games ever made, the art direction is stunning. It has one of my favourite soundtracks of all time. On a "tropes" level they've done an exceptional job of not sexualising Alice which is a rabbit hole too many others fall into. Everyone I've recommended it to has loved it to bits.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Denying people freedom to do things is not ever an answer. Biffo may not be 'one of them' but that's still a stupid thing to think. It actually pisses me off a bit that a person would suggest that as a solution to anything.

 

'You might encounter a lot of abuse and sexism if you decide to follow your dream to become an electrician or a plumber love so give up now lol.'

 

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

19 minutes ago, Gizamaluke said:

'You might encounter a lot of abuse and sexism if you decide to follow your dream to become an electrician or a plumber love so ignore them and carry on following your dreams to the best of your ability.'

 

Fixed.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

You don't have to intend harm to do harm, just as a game doesn't need to have a sexist agenda to manifest sexist tropes. This is a major source of misunderstanding around the general subject, and indeed in this very thread. We can discuss our problems with Biffo's post without suggesting he's 'one of them'. He goes to great lengths to state that he's not 'one of them', in fact, but on every occasion he feels compelled to lob in a troubling conjunction. If he was some schmoe prattling away on a forum I'd just dismiss it as a poorly thought-out post and think nothing more of it, but Biffo has readers and reach, and the potential to make a difference - and in that context I think his post definitely does more harm than good, which deserves to be addressed.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

7 minutes ago, NEG said:

'You might encounter a lot of abuse and sexism if you decide to follow your dream to become an electrician or a plumber love so ignore them and carry on following your dreams to the best of your ability.'

 

Fixed.

 

He's not suggesting that people ignore it.  He's suggesting that they remove themselves from social media or the internet as a whole, which in today's world would be complete career suicide for someone looking to work in independent game development, journalism, and a whole host of other fields.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I remember when I was a kid in school being bullied by a guy three years older than me. My parents gave me sage advise: "Just don't be around the bully as often. Really, you shouldn't let him see you if you don't want to get bullied." 

 

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
 Share

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    • No registered users viewing this page.
×
×
  • Create New...

Important Information

We have placed cookies on your device to help make this website better. You can adjust your cookie settings, otherwise we'll assume you're okay to continue. Use of this website is subject to our Privacy Policy, Terms of Use, and Guidelines.