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Gender Diversity / Politics in games (was Tropes Vs. Women)

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PaB

PaB

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There's actually been warnings issued about the risk of atagonising these guys

I can't imagine a less confident group people than one that meets up to talk about how they can meet girls.

It would be like antagonising a bowl of custard.

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Unofficial Who

Unofficial Who

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I can't imagine a less confident group people than one that meets up to talk about how they can meet girls.

It would be like antagonising a bowl of custard.

Might be true in the UK. In Australia there's been some fairly awful things take place after a group of men come together and decide rape would be an awesome idea. We have a massive problem with sexual violence and there's plenty of tragic stories that have the "he seemed like such a quiet guy" annecdote in there.

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b00dles

b00dles

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I thought the weird thing about these Roosh 'seminars' is that they aren't actually about pick up skills and the like anymore and are all a bit more general MRA stuff and how much men are now the minority or some other such load of bollocks too idiotic to even comprehend.

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PaB

PaB

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I thought the weird thing about these Roosh 'seminars' is that they aren't actually about pick up skills and the like anymore and are all a bit more general MRA stuff and how much men are now the minority or some other such load of bollocks too idiotic to even comprehend.

Actually MRAs are the only group of people i can imagine being less secure and self confident than men who go to meet other men to talk about how to meet girls, so in their case it would be like antagonising a bowl of jelly and ice cream.

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b00dles

b00dles

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From watching that Reggie Yates doc where he went along to one of Roosh's things, the people that did agree to be filmed or the bits of people in the crowd, it really didn't look like it's all a load of smelly 40 year old virgin types though, which is what I found even more worrying though.

I know there's probably a fair few people that fit that type of nerdy neckbeard shut in stereotypes but it really doesn't even seem to be the case, just bitter and stupid (in this sense - they don't seem to be morans in general, if you know what I mean) people from all walks of life.

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Squigs

Squigs

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Wait, so this 'Roosh' thing is at 8pm on Saturday? The Edinburgh one could be just as interesting as Glasgow, given that Scotland play England at Murrayfield earlier in the day, and the Grassmarket will be rammed full of pissed up rugby fans.

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Anne Summers

Anne Summers

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Yes they are all over the place, I don't think he has said which one he will be at, if any, but he appears to be saying he will be in Australia.

Lots of them have "gone dark" today, he's removed the public details of where the meetings will take place (and cancelled them I think) and is setting up new ones. You can only get the locations if you've been a forum member or posted on his blog for longer than 3 months, or can show a receipt proving you've bought one of his books!

Someone asked what this has got to do with games - Roosh used to have a section on his website dedicated to video game news (with a GG twist of course) but he discontinued it a few months ago because it wasn't bringing in any traffic. Which hopefully bodes not well for Breitbart Tech.

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Anne Summers

Anne Summers

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From watching that Reggie Yates doc where he went along to one of Roosh's things, the people that did agree to be filmed or the bits of people in the crowd, it really didn't look like it's all a load of smelly 40 year old virgin types though, which is what I found even more worrying though.

I know there's probably a fair few people that fit that type of nerdy neckbeard shut in stereotypes but it really doesn't even seem to be the case, just bitter and stupid (in this sense - they don't seem to be morans in general, if you know what I mean) people from all walks of life.

I thought most of the attendees in the Yates doc looked like 25 year old virgin types rather than 40 year old virgin types. Apart from the age (which is certainly worrying) they fit the profile quite well I thought.

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b00dles

b00dles

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Sorry my misunderstanding on the Roosh front, I thought he was doing a tour, I didn't realise it was a tea and biscuits night for all his MRA followers. There's some sort of amazing logic behind a load of men going to spend an evening with a load of other men (with no women allowed) to bemoan the fact they can't talk to women and are being oppressed :wacko: Why not meet in a pub and you might even get the chance to actually speak to one of these 'Laydeez"?

@Anne Summers Fair enough, I really didn't think they looked 'that bad' as it were. I didn't think it was like looking into your average Games Workshop/ end of big train platforms/ IT depts or something along those lines in regards to seeing stereotypical nerdy types but it was a few weeks ago I saw it.

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K

K

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I watched that Reggie Yates documentary, and thought most of the men on it – the actual punters, rather than Milo and Roosh and their fellow demons – seemed to be normal-looking guys. I would hazard a guess that they’d either been rather unsuccessful with the ladies, and (not unreasonably) thought they should be doing a lot better, but had jumped to completely the wrong conclusion and decided that feminism and women in general were to blame, rather than bad luck and inexperience.

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Anne Summers

Anne Summers

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Yes I totally agree, I think that's the foundation of the mindset.

I think it's worth expanding on it slightly to say that the reason they've jumped to the wrong conclusion (when quite a lot of people manage to jump to the right one) is rooted in arrogance - "There's nothing wrong with me, so there must be something wrong with you." So it isn't necessarily right to simply say they are misguided, because it is their own personality flaws that are causing them to be misguided.

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b00dles

b00dles

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That was my take on it too, perhaps I just mangled my language per usual.

Simply put, as is often the case; 'wot K said' I didn't think it was a case that they were all hideously ugly/ paralysed by shyness/ introverted shut ins and that was what I found more alarming. It's just a lot of the chat in here and about GG-ers often seems to be about the stereotypical neck beard / nerdy types.

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ZOK

ZOK

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What I wonder (and it wasn't made clear by that Reggie Yates doc) is what they actually hope to achieve when they get together.

If they think Feminism and women's growing sense of superiority is what's stopping them getting dates (and yes, that is what they think), shouldn't they be concentrating on getting feminists and any other women along to those meetings and telling them to start thinking differently? Moaning to each other about the outrageous injustice of women being able to think for themselves doesn't seem to be much of a solution.

I mean, obviously there isn't an actual solution, because these MRA types are idiots and there isn't really a problem other than the one that exists in their own minds, but you know.

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Superblast!

Superblast!

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I watched that Reggie Yates documentary, and thought most of the men on it – the actual punters, rather than Milo and Roosh and their fellow demons – seemed to be normal-looking guys. I would hazard a guess that they’d either been rather unsuccessful with the ladies, and (not unreasonably) thought they should be doing a lot better, but had jumped to completely the wrong conclusion and decided that feminism and women in general were to blame, rather than bad luck and inexperience.

There's definitely a middle-aged contingent amongst MRA circles, but rather than a 40-year-old virgin thing I think it's probably men who've gone through horrific divorce proceedings that, rightly or wrongly, have gone against them. I remember reading the background of some prominent guy from somewhere like A Voice For Men or Return of Kings and it fit the profile to a tee. There's even a few older guys present during Roosh's seminar in the Reggie Yates documentary, one of whom is heard worrying about how to prevent his daughter from being "poisoned by feminism" or some such nonsense. The ideology clearly isn't limited to frustrated youth who aren't getting any.

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ah

ah

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I think it's a major mistake to write that kind of stuff off as idiots being idiots, or frustrated young men being frustrated young men, or what have you. I'd like to think that supposedly more enlightened people could exercise the mental effort required to recognise, as is noted above, that it's not just idiots or just naive youngsters, and extrapolate from there to see this kind of thing as evidence that their supposedly enlightened and correct way of looking at the world is failing some of their neighbours so severely that they go looking in these weird and unpleasant places to try and find a worldview that helps them make better sense of their lives.

To be entirely clear, what I'm saying is definitely not that I think one should be at all persuaded by the classic MRA arguments. I'm saying simply that if so many other people evidently are swayed by those arguments then that highlights a failing somewhere in the current dominant cultural ideologies to properly accommodate and explain the lived experience of significant numbers of people. And that's worth thinking about to try and understand why it happens rather than simply laughing and going about one's day.

I haven't quite figured out what I think it means for us all yet so I'll stop short of sharing my half-formed ideas on that subject for the time being, but I do think it's interesting and troubling.

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ZOK

ZOK

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Are there significant numbers people though? I don't see any evidence that we are talking about anything other than minuscule groups. Put them together in a ungeographically restricted space like the Internet and it seems far more significant than it is.

That doesn't mean they deserve no thought, of course.

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