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Gender Diversity / Politics in games (was Tropes Vs. Women)

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NEG

NEG

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Just for clarity, you think writing more lines of dialogue for female characters in children's movies largely aimed at girls which suffer a problem with not giving the female characters a real voice is pointless.

At least you're honest, although in the unlikely event you're not actually trolling that probably says more than you think it does.

More lines don't help for more decent role models in the movies the article poked at. Lines alone as improvement to those films are pointless. Wonder if the singing is included...

What is fiction if not a part of society?

You don't see any gain in having better written female characters in movies that young girls watch? I mean, what?

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Better written is not the same as more lines.

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My personal take away is that NEG thinks equality is a joke and that trying to fix inequality is "pointless".

Never a joke, but lines an inequality? In 90's Disney? An issue? Goodness no.

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NEG

NEG

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Yes, if you ignore things you tend not to see them, that's usually how it works. It doesn't change the fact that works of fiction are designed objects with thematic goals and the characters, plot and dialogue act in service of those goals; failure is bad design.

Not everything is meant to mean something, not everything has goals.

Please tell me the meanings and goals of Winnie The Pooh from a thematic standpoint.

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Alex W.

Alex W.

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Please tell me the meanings and goals of Winnie The Pooh from a thematic standpoint.

It's about friendship, trust and companionship with the characters reflecting different feelings a child might find in themself or others.

It's not exactly the ending of 2001.

When you read a book or watch a movie are the stories just a bunch of things that didn't actually happen in real life?

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NEG

NEG

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It's about friendship, trust and companionship with the characters reflecting different feelings a child might find in themself or others.

It's not exactly the ending of 2001.

When you read a book or watch a movie are the stories just a bunch of things that didn't actually happen in real life?

See, my description would have been it's about a bumbling cute bear that wants honey. Nothing much more to make me love Pooh bear. Social goals don't have to automatically come to mind, you know?

Is 'Honey' a clear euphemism for Pooh's addiction to prostitutes? Let's write a paper on it!

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ZOK

ZOK

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See, my description would have been it's about a bumbling cute bear that wants honey.

If that was all there was to Winnie the Pooh, you would never have heard of it.

If you are unable to divine any meaning in literature beyond the most facile, that isn't necessarily the fault of the author.

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sir stiff_one

sir stiff_one

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My (almost) four year old daughter chimed in today after my son said "I want to be like Hulk!" with "Yeah, me too. Is hulk a man or woman?" And I said "oh he's a man but there is a she-hulk!" and then I searched for pictures on google and we're sat there both looking at them and I was embarrassed on behalf of the world we live in. Literally dozens of pictures of massive tits, 'sexy' posed bimbo variations and fan art. The original comic cover wasn't too bad.

So I searched for She-Ra as she's a pretty good female role model - just as strong as He-Man and arguably more powerful, and her original costume & proportions are pretty reasonable considering. And then there's this fan redrawing which is almost the same but with bigger tits/ass & skimpier clothes and I'm like come on now. Fuck this. Little girls are exposed to these images as their role models from day one! And then I thought of NEG and how he's sitting there rubbing his itchy face and wasting his life making this piece of shit argument about how harmless it all is. And I negged him. And it felt pretty good.

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NEG

NEG

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A particularly nihilistic argument there.

You're also once again assuming that people are attempting to apply "fault" and "blame" to things; that's not what critique is about.

It does feel like that at times, though. The Disney thing was probably just clickbait.

My (almost) four year old daughter chimed in today after my son said "I want to be like Hulk!" with "Yeah, me too. Is hulk a man or woman?" And I said "oh he's a man but there is a she-hulk!" and then I searched for pictures on google and we're sat there both looking at them and I was embarrassed on behalf of the world we live in. Literally dozens of pictures of massive tits, 'sexy' posed bimbo variations and fan art. The original comic cover wasn't too bad.

So I searched for She-Ra as she's a pretty good female role model - just as strong as He-Man and arguably more powerful, and her original costume & proportions are pretty reasonable considering. And then there's this fan redrawing which is almost the same but with bigger tits/ass & skimpier clothes and I'm like come on now. Fuck this. Little girls are exposed to these images as their role models from day one! And then I thought of NEG and how he's sitting there rubbing his itchy face and wasting his life making this piece of shit argument about how harmless it all is. And I negged him. And it felt pretty good.

Sounds like your browser might need parental controls.

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Shoes

Shoes

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Werner Herzog's Winnie the Pooh.

"The bear escapes the honey hole, but he can not escape the meaninglessness of his existence."

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"I discover no kinship, no understanding, no mercy. I see only the overwhelming indifference of nature. To me, there is no such thing as a secret world of the bears. And this blank stare speaks only of a half-bored interest in food."

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cowfields

cowfields

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Sort of mostly in response to what Uncle Mike is saying - it's hard to understand if NEG is actually knowingly trolling or just has a learning difficulty brought on by what seems like a fairly sheltered life. Neg how many women do you actually hang out with in a regular basis? That you could say you actually know?

Anyway - to infer that Stiff should have just blanket censored the websites from his daughter is ridiculous, and what actually happened is he probably ended up teaching them a few lessons about sexualisation.

It's a shame that this thread went from an interesting discussion about a really significant topic, into everyone trying to explain it to someone who is either willingly trolling for laughs or so stupid that paragraphs on a forum are simply not the way that person should learn.

The whole women vs games thing is an interesting subject because I imagine gaming is one of the only cultural mediums that still has an unequal audience. While the tropes and the sexism is prevalent from the creators of other mediums, at least the people consuming art, film, music, books is probably 50/50. Doubt it for games.

We could talk about that, but instead is but instead lets talk for ages about why if guys wore a skimpy swimsuit in a freezing ocean it's just make the game even more stupid.

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Wiper

Wiper

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The whole women vs games thing is an interesting subject because I imagine gaming is one of the only cultural mediums that still has an unequal audience. While the tropes and the sexism is prevalent from the creators of other mediums, at least the people consuming art, film, music, books is probably 50/50. Doubt it for games.

We could talk about that, but instead is but instead lets talk for ages about why if guys wore a skimpy swimsuit in a freezing ocean it's just make the game even more stupid.

Well, aside from all the statistics over the past few years saying the opposite, yeah. Of course, they tend to be approached similarly to the film industry (and, historically, the world of literature) - arguing that while there might be parity in those who partake of the medium, it is men who are the 'real' fans, the enthusiasts that the medium needs to primarily focus on to turn a profit, and that genres which don't sell primarily to men aren't the same as the real thing anyway.

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smac

smac

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The whole women vs games thing is an interesting subject because I imagine gaming is one of the only cultural mediums that still has an unequal audience. While the tropes and the sexism is prevalent from the creators of other mediums, at least the people consuming art, film, music, books is probably 50/50. Doubt it for games.

I wouldn't be so sure. Everybody games, these days, and I'm not just talking about Angry Birds and that ilk.

And it's been that way for a while. Sure, I wouldn't be surprised if it's generally men that dominate the conversation, but that's the point of this thread, right?

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