Gender Diversity / Politics in games (was Tropes Vs. Women)

[Delargey]

I'd watch.

[Mr Cochese]

Bond and Bondgirl in one. At the end of the film, they'd knock on the outside of the lunar escape module and find him frotting himself against his Walther PPK with a noose around his neck.

[Gorf King]

But Bond's supposed to be a fantasy secret agent, not an authentic depiction of British intelligence services.

[Rowan Morrison]

The Spy Who Kissed Myself

[NEG]

I know you are just trolling. Please don't, what is the point, man?

Even if this was a "proper" wetsuit design though I've never seen one like it before, why do you think the designers chose that particular version over the more traditional full body wetsuit?

Do you think that if there was a male option in that game he would have the same type of wetsuit?

Do you see how the skippy ass showing design is unnecessary?

Why bother drawing this conversation out?

Wet suits were a genuine ponder as people were discussing wet suits already.

'Maybe it was a warm day out' would have been the troll post. Was it a warm day in the game that day...?

You don't have to answer that.

[The Bag]

[Gambit]

Is it possible to ban someone from a thread rather than the whole forum?

Just wondering.

[Nick R]

[Alex W.]

NEG misses the point the way a Russian infantryman misses aggressive sniper fire at the siege of Stalingrad.

[macosx]

what is the point exactly re the wetsuit discussion?

[Scribblor]

It gave NEG an excuse for showing himself up yet again.

[Delargey]

Wet suits were a genuine ponder as people were discussing wet suits already.

'Maybe it was a warm day out' would have been the troll post. Was it a warm day in the game that day...?

You don't have to answer that.

Your right, of course, there is no way you could possibly speculate on the how pratical a wet suit which covers the upper body but exposes 70% of her ass until you've done at least 4 years of WetSuitology at the University of Wetsuits. It was a stupid question.

Why do you think games designer's picked this particular wetsuit design rather than the more traditional full body wetsuit that even a wet suit novice could reconise?

Do you think games designers have/would be likely to put a man in a similar costume or would such wild speculation be beyond you?

Also, if she wore that wetsuit on a warm day her arms would get really warm so she would have to wear it on a day were she was planning on keeping her top half underwater while her legs were in the sun.

[NEG]

Is all sea water cold?

I'm not discussing why it's in the game (as that's obvious), just wondered about wet suit design/what would have been actually appropriate to those being bemused by Lara wet suit.

The answer was 10 or so posts ago by the person that first responded.

Where is University of Wetsuits based? Is it out at sea?

Sonic dives in the water naked.

[NEG]

Oh, and to answer the question:

Would they put male fan service in their game? If they thought male fan service would sell, yes.

[Straps]

...and back to square one. Again. For like the 12th time. With one person, not even the thread.

[TehStu]

With apologies to everyone else

Is all sea water cold?

I'm not discussing why it's in the game (as that's obvious), just wondered about wet suit design/what would have been actually appropriate to those being bemused by Lara wet suit.

The answer was 10 or so posts ago by the person that first responded.

Where is University of Wetsuits based? Is it out at sea?

Sonic dives in the water naked.

Why don't you dig up the respective TR thread and ask which wet suit would have suitable, instead of playing into the tropes in the tropes thread, of all places.

Sonic isn't a woman.

[NEG]

Wouldn't short wet suits be a trope? Since you don't want me asking about what would be appropriate wet suits here, let me ask something else...

Do you want men in short wet suits? More variety at least, I'd agree.

Choice. We need choice.

Edit: By that I mean 10+ wet suits to choose from.

[The Grand Pursuivant]

Am I the only one appreciating the fact that NEG is a stone cold troll genius?

I thought he had reached his peak when he started posting responses to unrelated youtube videos but this wetsuit stuff is just sheer brilliance.

[David Kenny]

Yes. You are the only one.

[TehStu]

Wouldn't short wet suits be a trope? Since you don't want me asking about what would be appropriate wet suits here, let me ask something else...

Do you want men in short wet suits? More variety at least, I'd agree.

Choice. We need choice.

Edit: By that I mean 10+ wet suits to choose from.

The question about men is irrelevant, because: this entire thread and the objectification of women. Assuming you're being genuine, you're approaching it from an "equality of objectification" point of view (i.e., give the blokes some speedo-suits), whereas everyone with a modicum of sense can see that makes zero sense in the context of Tropes vs Women in Videogames, and society in general.

[DukeOfEarlsfield]

This is about films rather than games but it's an excellent piece that people interested in this kind of things should find informative.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/wonk/wp/2016/01/25/researchers-have-discovered-a-major-problem-with-the-little-mermaid-and-other-disney-movies/

It's a report on a statistical analysis of the Disney Princess genre of movies, relating to language.

In 1989, when Disney finally released “The Little Mermaid,” critics praised this modern new heroine. Unlike her predecessors, “Ariel is fully realized female character who thinks and acts independently, even rebelliously,” Roger Ebert wrote. The New York Times called her “a spunky daredevil.”

And yet, in one respect, “The Little Mermaid” represented a backward step in the princess genre. For a film centered on a young woman, there’s an awful lot of talking by men. In fact, this was the first Disney princess movie in which the men significantly outspoke the women.

And it started a trend. The plot of "The Little Mermaid," of course, involves Ariel literally losing her voice — but in the five Disney princess movies that followed, the women speak even less. On average in those films, men have three times as many lines as women.

Loads of interesting facts. The thing that really jumped out at me was that out of the twelve films analysed there was only a single comedy side-kick character who was female.

[macosx]

I just asked my wife if she was was ever bothered by seeing Lara Croft in skimpy clothes or was it more extreme stuff like that old DOA game I used to play. To which she replied 'that was my favourite game ever, I liked buying swimsuits and flip flops'. I gave up any hope of further discussion.

[NEG]

The question about men is irrelevant, because: this entire thread and the objectification of women. Assuming you're being genuine, you're approaching it from an "equality of objectification" point of view (i.e., give the blokes some speedo-suits), whereas everyone with a modicum of sense can see that makes zero sense in the context of Tropes vs Women in Videogames, and society in general.

Didn't the thread agree there is nothing wrong to sexiness persay? Equality would go a long way to, well, making things equal. I'm talking strictly costumes here.

Assuming a game has the ability to provide multiple costumes and male and female, I'm fine with swim suits big and small for both genders. If I want my character to look a certain way, that's completely my choice. Does it automatically mean I'm objectifying if the character is wearing something skimpy? Am I objectifying my Diablo character by making them look 'more awesome' when I use transmogrify on my gear? Taste is always be each to their own when it comes to wear.

Not that all choice is done right however: Wiper touched on it in the previous page, but the Xenoblade example didn't look like 'choice' to me, as everything female is (I'd assume?) as skimpy as the picture he shared. I could be wrong.

So why would men in speed-oh! suits be bad? Some women might be into that. Just look at the fashion on the previous page.

Choice. Butts. Both things are beautiful. Appreciate and expect to see tons of both.

[Dig Dug]

I forgot who posted it but there was an article posted on here a while back about how the original DOA extreme was a bit odd in that it was at face value a fanservice game but at the same time contained a lot of what the writer described as feminist game concepts such as the games single player focus on building relationships between the characters, lack of any violence and the emphasis on enjoying holiday activities.

In hindsight there really was an excellent holiday sim in there its just it was presented to appeal to a certain audience.

A game like that could have found a diverse audience but instead they made the breast physics a focus of the sequel which ruined any chance of the series finding a wider audience as an innocent guilty pleasure.

Considering the beach holiday is a theme has shown to be appealing to a large number of people in the past (all media, not just games) it would totally be worth experimenting with the theme in a game. DOA extreme was a legitmately good game, if someone made a title that was just as solid but more friendly to bigger audiences then I think it could do well. It might be a game that finds its audiences better on mobile devices than consoles.

I'm rambling but I think it is a missed oppitunity that DOAX is the only thing on the market for this kind of game.

[Alex W.]

Edge's review certainly took that tack.

[Sprite Machine]

Didn't the thread agree there is nothing wrong to sexiness persay? Equality would go a long way to, well, making things equal. I'm talking strictly costumes here.

"Per se".

And there's nothing wrong with ANYTHING in isolation, but no art or media exists in isolation. It's about common trends and why they recur. Come on, this isn't hard.

[Timmo]

I cut the arms and legs off my wetsuit (along with buttock holes) and I find it much more comfortable than before. Also I stay just as warm due to convection.

[Anne Summers]

Didn't the thread agree there is nothing wrong to sexiness persay? Equality would go a long way to, well, making things equal. I'm talking strictly costumes here.

Assuming a game has the ability to provide multiple costumes and male and female, I'm fine with swim suits big and small for both genders. If I want my character to look a certain way, that's completely my choice. Does it automatically mean I'm objectifying if the character is wearing something skimpy? Am I objectifying my Diablo character by making them look 'more awesome' when I use transmogrify on my gear? Taste is always be each to their own when it comes to wear.

Not that all choice is done right however: Wiper touched on it in the previous page, but the Xenoblade example didn't look like 'choice' to me, as everything female is (I'd assume?) as skimpy as the picture he shared. I could be wrong.

So why would men in speed-oh! suits be bad? Some women might be into that. Just look at the fashion on the previous page.

Choice. Butts. Both things are beautiful. Appreciate and expect to see tons of both.

Men haven't historically had their opportunities limited by being sexualised or objectified. Women have. This is a situation which we are still attempting to rectify today.

That's really all the information you need, to realise that you can't justify sexualisation of women in games/the world with the fact that men are sometimes sexualised too.

[NEG]

So you rather no sexualisation ever, Anne? Because the world fucked up till a certain point against one of the genders? That causes sexiness to not be 'justifed'?

I assure you the opportunities of my Diablo character hasn't been affected by having the choice of what they're wearing visually.

[Alex W.]