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Gender Diversity / Politics in games (was Tropes Vs. Women)

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rockstarjez

rockstarjez

Posted
Posted

For someone so gleeful about "triggering" people, you sure whine like a pathetic little child every time you see an insult.

I find it quite insulting that I have to know I'm the same species as you and be reminded that even worst kind of people sometimes drag their brains out of the gutter and pretend to want to discuss things.

You stupid cunt.

You seem to be the typical male feminist. If someone has a different way of thinking than you, then you insult them.

Really is quite pathetic and not very manly.

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Wiper

Wiper

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Posted

It's also worth noting that the TFA thread in Film/TV has had an awful lot of people commenting on the laziness of the big bad act, both in the way it's handled and the simple fact of it - it's generally been received as a weak point of the film, as a lazy JJ-ism.

Heh, that looked a bit like it said jism.

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NEG

NEG

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If Genocide is treated any less then Episode 4 had done ( obi-wan scene and I guess the Leia scene beforehand ) I'd consider that quite crappy. On the other hand, if 4 was released today, would we see the obi-wan scene as enough? The blowing up of the planet was also a means to make Leia talk, which added tension to film, so on and so forth.

Neg, you seem to be labouring under several delusions:

1: That I'm reading your posts, rather than just telling you to fuck off when I see them

2: That the language used in a discussion is directly relevant to the discussion

3: That I agreed to discuss anything with you in a way you find acceptable.

So yeah, keep spewing thoughtless shit wherever you like. But I'm perfectly within my rights to tell you how I feel about you, and if I decide to do so by posting the same thing multiple times or swearing I can't see how you of all people could criticise.

You're dragging this repeatedly off topic, listening to nothing and being wilfully obtuse. I genuinely believe this thread would be a better place if you'd fuck off.

I know you'll ignore this post, maybe quote the swear word and then give a sanctimonious little comment about helpful discussion. Like anybody, anywhere needs discussion tips from you.

Bloody hell Broker. Well, forgive me for being polite enough to try to talk to you. Thank you for continuing to be rude.

1) Well you evidently are, as you understood I'm giving you discussion pointers. If you genuinely weren't reading, it means you are adding little to nothing in the first place and swearing for the sake of, which isn't a good thing.

2) You mean I should be talking Japanese to you instead? Oh, you mean the swearing? Well yes, it is relevant when you decide to simply say 'fuck off'. You chose a relevant comment to say 'fuck off' to.

3) We're only human, we expect the same from others. Forgive me for trying. I evidently should have stuck to the level of jpegs when it comes to responding to a person that can't bother.

I won't be wasting my time responding to you again (unless you respond sensibly of course!). Feel free to belittle and swear all you want, Broker. It's your right, after all.

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Fry Crayola

Fry Crayola

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If Genocide is treated any less then Episode 4 had done ( obi-wan scene and I guess the Leia scene beforehand ) I'd consider that quite crappy. On the other hand, if 4 was released today, would we see the obi-wan scene as enough? The blowing up of the planet was also a means to make Leia talk, which added tension to film, so on and so forth.

I haven't seen The Force Awakens (or Anita's review of it, as there'd be no point), so I'll just mention one thing here - it doesn't matter what the character's motivations in the film are. Moff Tarkin didn't blow up Alderaan, because Moff Tarkin and Alderaan don't exist. It wasn't a means to make Leia talk, but rather something George Lucas wrote to advance the plot.

When critics like Anita discuss this, they're discussing George Lucas and his work, or recently JJ Abrams and his work, and the cultural impact of these scenes. How it may change the rest of the film if this were to be handled differently isn't the issue here - if a writer uses a particular action to evoke a response, that action is not free from commentary just because it worked.

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S0L

S0L

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Posted

You seem to be the typical male feminist. If someone has a different way of thinking than you, then you insult them.

Really is quite pathetic and not very manly.

Oh the irony! I don't even know where to start :)

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NEG

NEG

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I haven't seen The Force Awakens (or Anita's review of it, as there'd be no point), so I'll just mention one thing here - it doesn't matter what the character's motivations in the film are. Moff Tarkin didn't blow up Alderaan, because Moff Tarkin and Alderaan don't exist. It wasn't a means to make Leia talk, but rather something George Lucas wrote to advance the plot.

When critics like Anita discuss this, they're discussing George Lucas and his work, or recently JJ Abrams and his work, and the cultural impact of these scenes. How it may change the rest of the film if this were to be handled differently isn't the issue here - if a writer uses a particular action to evoke a response, that action is not free from commentary just because it worked.

I don't write a book simply to advance it. I care about it.

Though I'm not sure if you disagree with that, don't think you do, but I'd like to think Lucas did care about things, at least back in the day. We can't be that cynical, can we? I mean yes director fat cats that care little exist, but I don't think that was the case with Star Wars. If Lucas is to be guilty of anything, it was wanting to pay homage to stuff he loved himself.

Not saying the scene/s are free of critic no matter how loved (hence my 'if released today' comment), just stating how much genocide before and aftereffect is 'enough' for a Star Wars film for me. Am I judging by what came before? Yes. Do I expect more? In 2016, yes. But we also know that kids will be watching. I rather not be turned into a pile of depressed mess.

This is why the obi-wan scene in episode 4 is just the right amount impactful to me. It makes you stop and think, if only for just a second as to what has just happened. Silence. Just silence.

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Broker

Broker

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Posted

You seem to be the typical male feminist. If someone has a different way of thinking than you, then you insult them.

Really is quite pathetic and not very manly.

It's interesting that you need to project so often by using the word "typical". I assume it's because your whole character is such a painfully generic "lad". But again, I notice you don't have a counter argument for the fact that you are so happy about "triggering" and yet you get all upset when people use swear words or dare to insult you. How come it's so funny when you use words to annoy other people but then you have the right to demand other people speak? Typical cunt behaviour.

Massive :lol: at manly as well, a little insight into how your pathetic, broken brain is functioning.

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Dig Dug

Dig Dug

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Posted

It has little to no redeeming value anymore. This was the only site I knew of that even remotely talked about this topic, other sites immediately shut these kind of threads down because they immediately turned into the kind of shit show we have now. It was good while it lasted.

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Fry Crayola

Fry Crayola

Posted
Posted

I don't write a book simply to advance it. I care about it.

Though I'm not sure if you disagree with that, don't think you do, but I'd like to think Lucas did care about things, at least back in the day.

You may very well care about it, as I'm sure Lucas did, but the fact remains the decision to include was his and his alone. So when the cultural implications of displays of wanton terracide are discussed, it's rather irrelevant how poor Leia would have taken it. Much as it was irrelevant when stupid people argued that of course the hero was going to rescue the damsel, because the alternative would be that she died. The criticism is rarely aimed at the story's believability.

For the record, I think Alderaan's destruction was pretty awesome and don't have any issue with how it was handled in the film.

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Alex W.

Alex W.

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Other critics who have suggested they should bring the "tremendous massacre and suffering" to the foreground and "pay heed to incomprehensible loss"?

"In TFA genocide on an unspeakable scale is merely a bump in the road for the people who really matter, Rey, Finn"... Yes, because they are the protagonists of the film.

"The films don't give the audience time to process the... loss of life, the morality or lack thereof" ... SW isn't Schindler's List. It's a pantomime and Darth Vader, Kylo Ren, they're pantomime villains, though they at least gave Ren a modicum of inner-conflict. One of the franchises key aims is to appeal to and sell toys to children, so it would be inappropriate to dwell on such content. Ignoring the change in tone, the film could perhaps attempt to show families and cities being wiped out in a non-graphic way, but then it would be very difficult to balance that in what is a light and fun movie, and could lead to accusations of exploiting and trivializing such events.

If someone posted a critic making these assertions in the Film/TV folder and I called them ridiculous, nobody would've negged me for it. The point being criticism of Anita Sarkeesian or FemFreq is not welcome in this thread (and possibly the forum) even when it doesn't relate to issues of feminism. It's zealotic.

Not to put too fine a point on it, but yes, Star Wars' superficial characterisation and storytelling has been a point of criticism in SF film and lit circles essentially since it became massively popular. It's a saga about an ubermensch lineage where the deaths of millions are used as set dressing, it kind of lends itself to this sort of analysis much as the ur-myths that inspired it do. As a mainstream entertainment it's just fine family fun but the SF cognoscenti have a much broader range of thoughts on it.

Links when I can be bothered.

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K

K

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Not to put too fine a point on it, but yes, Star Wars' superficial characterisation and storytelling has been a point of criticism in SF film and lit circles essentially since it became massively popular. It's a saga about an ubermensch lineage where the deaths of millions are used as set dressing, it kind of lends itself to this sort of analysis much as the ur-myths that inspired it do. As a mainstream entertainment it's just fine family fun but the SF cognoscenti have a much broader range of thoughts on it.

Links when I can be bothered.

JG Ballard's review of the original film is one of my favourites:

http://spager.home.xs4all.nl/Scorn/toot/sturr.htm

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Wiper

Wiper

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Posted

Star Wars is a popular film, you're on a videogame forum, so presumably you're proposing we're all desensitized to death, violence and genocide.

Seems reasonable enough. As a society we are pretty desensitized to death, violence and genocide, so long as it's not happening to us, presumably helped by the fact we're subjected to pretty constant visions of violence in our media (fictional and otherwise).

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Alex W.

Alex W.

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Anyway, I agreed with pretty much everything else in the Fem Freq review, but if someone is professing to be deeply analytical but I think they're talking shite, then why shouldn't I call it?

You were deeply sceptical that these ideas were widespread amongst film critics, and argued that Sarkessian's postulating them was anomalous. I pointed out that such ideas are commonplace amongst SF professionals.

Call away, but please remember what you said when you see people responding to it.

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