Gender Diversity / Politics in games (was Tropes Vs. Women)

[NEG]

Wasn't sure of the term for the tongue thing to find a more generic image of, thankfully my memory of SEGA advertising saves the day.

[Anne Summers]

So... correct me if I'm wrong here ...

But I'm thinking that, in your world, this monstrosity has been created by some humourless, terrified-of-offending-anyone feminist/sjw as part of a nefarious conspiracy to undermine white males' place in society.

Whereas I think it's just been done for a bit of a laugh by someone with a sense of humour,

[Shoes]

The obligatory 3 negs for disagreeing/criticizing a point made by FemFreq.

Geekette disagreed with the review and got 7 positives.

[TehStu]

The characters had sufficient development, for me. Not something worth getting too worked up about, particylary as it's so subjective.

[Capwn]

I agree that the genderless gingerbread was done with some eyewinking. I find it interesting how these things are always men, similar to snowmen, policemen, firemen etc and many more. I do actually try to say snowperson or gingerbread person now which I'm sure seems utterly insane and pointless to many. Don't get me wrong though, If someone else says snowman or gingerbread man in front of me I don't get into a fit of rage or anything or start questioning them. I do it more for myself as I just find it weird how much the word man or men is used as a default. I'm sure a little girl won't go into a bakery, see a gingerbread man and then come out with low self esteem but there are a zillion things like this that over time does sell the idea of man as the default. If you want equality in society, things like this build up and slow down progress.

[Alex W.]

SMH

[Unofficial Who]

...and I wonder why that could be?

Because she made a convincing arguement?

[NEG]

I wonder if it's harder to make a snow woman..

[Alex W.]

I believe there are lots of film critics who have raised exactly the same points about the storytelling in the Star Wars movies, I don't think you have to get your knickers in a twist over the idea that SW ain't exactly Solaris.

[rockstarjez]

Fuck off Neg, adults are talking.

How very grown up..

[Anne Summers]

My new year's resolution is to stop engaging with Gamergaters online (except here on rllmuk probably).

Over the past year I have engaged them a fair bit, on Reddit, Youtube, Facebook and other places. Partly I've been doing this to prove to them that its nonsense that SJWs (as they would call me, being a left-leaning, pro-feminist, progressive) will not enter into debate. Partly because I enjoy it I guess. And also partly because I like to think that maybe I can get some of them to have a think about their opinions and actions.

I've got no proof that I've ever successfully fulfilled that third reason, beyond the fact that people have occasionally accepted that I made good points, and then stopped corresponding with me.

I honestly think all that's left is the real hardcore regressive, right-wing idiots, and that's how Gamergate will remain - pretty much analogous to something like Stormfront or RooshV's corner of the internet - a spiteful and petty minded place where spiteful and petty minded individuals gather together and express opinions that they would never dare in the real world. The world will always have spiteful and petty minded people and they will always gather in certain places, and right thinking people just learn to leave them to it. I think that's Gamergate's "ending" and I don't really feel like I need to stick around and watch it happen.

[Broker]

How very grown up..

Fuck off Jez, people with working brains are talking

[NEG]

Your trolling style is not the most...elegant, Broker. Would you like me to provide you lessons?

[Broker]

Telling trolls to fuck off counts as trolling now? That word changes meaning every time I hear it.

[Dig Dug]

Posting something like this is what I would class as trolling.

[Dudley]

A jpeg hidden behind a flash container? I agree.

[NEG]

Telling trolls to fuck off counts as trolling now? That word changes meaning every time I hear it.

Swearing and belittling, in both your earlier posts today, never helps, mate.

It only causes a reaction, free blameless reaction due to not having done wrong. You are clever enough to know this.

Thanks

[NEG]

Mm, as good as your posts can tend to be Geekette, when someone's annoyed by the sight of someone sometimes even the smallest of critic or comment by that person won't help in the common sense reaction department.

Pos/Neg discussion is always pointless, mind. Paying attention/placing any sort of value on it is worse than Hitler.

Nintendo's +Yeah system all the way: at the very least it's inoffensive recognition, if you really need that.

[Wiper]

Basic ingroup/outgroup mentality.

Well, I suppose it could be that, or it could be that the reason one post got a pos from me and one didn't is to do with the fact that one was a considered commentary on the film and review that I found interesting to read, and one wasn't.

[Broker]

Swearing and belittling, in both your earlier posts today, never helps, mate.

It only causes a reaction, free blameless reaction due to not having done wrong. You are clever enough to know this.

Thanks

My point was that I don't want to bother discussing this with you, and I'd prefer if you took your pointless trolling elsewhere. Swearing helped me to communicate that.

Derailing discussions by pretending you want to participate, then actively ignoring every word said to you is a deeply unhealthy way to spend your life. It doesn't help anyone of anything.

[NEG]

My point was that I don't want to bother discussing this with you, and I'd prefer if you took your pointless trolling elsewhere. Swearing helped me to communicate that.

Derailing discussions by pretending you want to participate, then actively ignoring every word said to you is a deeply unhealthy way to spend your life. It doesn't help anyone of anything.

You didn't need to post quite that negatively in language if you didn't feel like discussing my taste in ear rings. I'm free to state my taste in ear rings. I don't believe I've ignored anyone on the subject of ear rings. I should stop this paragraph before it devolves into Sonic rings.

Was it meant to be much of a discussion raiser? Not really. Nor derailment, as the thread continued with whatever it was discussing. I could have just as much said I want to see Anita in Amy Rose costume and would have received just as much (if not more) flak for what's a innocent casual statement/observation. It genuinely came out of seeing so many videos in a row. No ill-intent.

Instead of swearing/belittling, and since you wanted to say as little as possible, saying these would have worked better:

1) NEG, you've let slip comedy in a non-comedy topic again. Tsk

2) NEG, ear rings have to do with nothing and you know it. Shoo.

3) We're watching/listening to these for the subjects within them, in case you forgot.

4) NEG, I played Undertale today. It's so wonderful I could kiss you!

All singular quick lines. Most things are better than:

Fuck off Neg, adults are talking.

and

Fuck off Jez, people with working brains are talking

I'd like to believe we're better then that. Even if and when I'm in the wrong. I'm sorry I frustrated you enough that you had to swear, I guess.

Back on topic: Despite already having spoiled myself on what happens in Episode 7 (so that someone in 'some' game chat room or site doesn't spoil me first - which unsurprisingly happened 2 days after I spoilt myself in HOTS) I won't be watching (the review) until I watch the movie. It's nice to see something non-game related in what looks to have been a long while. (the Tropes videos really took over Anita's previous stuff)

[rockstarjez]

Just as NEG comes across as very dim and/or a troll.

Wow another insult..

[rockstarjez]

Fuck off Jez, people with working brains are talking

Really! Brains.

I very much doubt that.

[NEG]

Wow another insult..

Just as long as she doesn't start doing comparisons to her six year olds again, I'm fine with playing the fool. I know/feel Geekette has no ill-will against anyone posting at least, just can get frustrated like the best of us. Bit harsh on Shrew, most of the second paragraph didn't seem needed.

Just found this:

Live broadcasts of FemFreq? How are these people getting inside the chat room if the broadcast is subscribers only? Or was the stream viewable by everyone, but no one allowed to chat? According to the video description you can't subscribe even if you wanted to?

Happy New Year!

[Alex W.]

She's in with the ingroup

She knows all the latest goss

When you're in with the ingroup

It's easy to get a pos

[Broker]

Another long post that misses all the points

Neg, you seem to be labouring under several delusions:

1: That I'm reading your posts, rather than just telling you to fuck off when I see them

2: That the language used in a discussion is directly relevant to the discussion

3: That I agreed to discuss anything with you in a way you find acceptable.

So yeah, keep spewing thoughtless shit wherever you like. But I'm perfectly within my rights to tell you how I feel about you, and if I decide to do so by posting the same thing multiple times or swearing I can't see how you of all people could criticise.

You're dragging this repeatedly off topic, listening to nothing and being wilfully obtuse. I genuinely believe this thread would be a better place if you'd fuck off.

I know you'll ignore this post, maybe quote the swear word and then give a sanctimonious little comment about helpful discussion. Like anybody, anywhere needs discussion tips from you.

[Broker]

Wow another insult..

For someone so gleeful about "triggering" people, you sure whine like a pathetic little child every time you see an insult.

I find it quite insulting that I have to know I'm the same species as you and be reminded that even worst kind of people sometimes drag their brains out of the gutter and pretend to want to discuss things.

You stupid cunt.

[cerseis eyebrows]

Zealotic .

Don't post much but you lot in my thoughts. Love you mad bunch of fucks, happy new year all!

[Graham S]

I didn't, but might have negged you for coming across as a bit of a dick, like you're so self evidently superior to what you're criticising that you don't even need to make an argument. Finishing your post with "Just no.", for instance. But I'd hate to be the tone police, as you hate that sort of thing, so perhaps a few random neggers are indeed just crazy zealots.

[Unofficial Who]

If someone posted a critic making these assertions in the Film/TV folder and I called them ridiculous, nobody would've negged me for it. The point being criticism of Anita Sarkeesian or FemFreq is not welcome in this thread (and possibly the forum) even when it doesn't relate to issues of feminism. It's zealotic.

Except that we've all criticised some of her points before, she's a critic coming at the subject from a certain perspective.

I can't speak for everyone in the thread but I think if you think her arguement is lacking have at it. The big issue at the very start of this thread years ago that blew up was there were some people who thought that she shouldn't even have the right to speak at all in the first place.

I really shouldn't have to dig back four years to bring up something I disagreed with but here we go I guess

http://www.destructoid.com/a-response-to-some-arguments-in-anita-sarkeesian-s-interview-230570.phtml

Sarkeesian: On the indie side of things, I really enjoyed Bastion, but the only female character in the game doesn’t have any depth (to put it mildly); basically, her whole characterization was "The Female."

The writer makes some pretty good coounterpoints and they're similar to my views. Zia isn't a damsel even if the other characters in the game treat her as such. In my eyes Zia was the most important character in the game. I noticed that Bastion didn't end up in her indie games tropes episode and I'm guessing that might be because she changed her mind when reading counterpoints to her own arguments. If Bastion had remained as an example of the helpless woman trope you can bet I'd be making a case as to why she's mistaken.

Sir Shrew, just ignore the pos and negs. Make your case and if people don't like it so what? I'd prefer a bit of intelligent debate than a 'right on' echo chamber.