Gender Diversity / Politics in games (was Tropes Vs. Women)

[Unofficial Who]

Two minute mark. Jack Thompson? Seriously?

[elmo]

.

As I said, I don't think the Gigolo missions worked on any level. But what you're discussing here is should we have seen the rape scene in irreversible? I mean there's a discussion to be had but I'm not sure a conclusion can be made on that one. For example A Serbian Film is a film a cannot watch. I've heard what's in it and I won't watch it. It'll offend me to my core but should it be banned? I don't know. I'm struggling with that one myself.

On the flip side, do so many games need brothels filled with women that come out with pointless lines that render the prostitute as nothing more than an object? No.

[RubberJohnny]

I think Killer is Dead is a bad example because those bits were literally forced in by the publisher against the creators wishes - like what's a bigger issue when it comes to creative integrity? The studio messing with the creators vision to try and get sales? Or someone saying the stuff they added is shite?

[elmo]

I think Killer is Dead is a bad example because those bits were literally forced in by the publisher against the creators wishes - like what's a bigger issue when it comes to creative integrity? The studio messing with the creators vision to try and get sales? Or someone saying the stuff they added is shite?

I agree but people were asking for them to be removed before anyone knew that information.

[Graham S]

[Capwn]

I think Killer is Dead is a bad example because those bits were literally forced in by the publisher against the creators wishes - like what's a bigger issue when it comes to creative integrity? The studio messing with the creators vision to try and get sales? Or someone saying the stuff they added is shite?

Had no idea about that. I think that makes it more yucky? at least before I had some idea that Suda was trying something that didn't quite work out but now it seems like it was created only for the purpose of selling more units. Sounds a bit like the HBO situation where they give out a mandate to include nudity in their dramas that creators must abide to.

[elmo]

Well they were and they weren't. They were created by Suda for another game I think. He tried them again here but it was supposed to be less erotic but the publisher insisted they were left in and more controversial.

[Qazimod]

I only did one Gigolo mission, just to see what it was like, and I didn't play any more than the one because it was dumb and boring. Killer is Dead is great when it's just being an action game but the Gigolo missions just seemed completely out-of-place. I watched the Matt Lees thing about Mondo and later the Chet & Jon discussion in the video review they did, and both sides of the argument have their merits (although the whole "Suda51's career is over" angle from Lees was a bit cringey) but personally I think it's kind of a shame that the missions are there because KiD is good when you're just shooting and swording, and you wouldn't really be losing that much from the core experience if the gigolo stuff was removed.

E: links to Youtube videos included

[Tourist]

I just fell down a rabbithole to do with the making of a kickstarted book called The Untold History of Japanese Game Developers. And I came across this link:

http://theralphretort.com/sjw-media-blackouts-coverage-of-japan-chroniclers-book/

I dunno why I am sharing it; I guess I just found it sort of scary and amusing the way it is presented as some sort of hard-hitting vindication in the face of an SJW agenda - as opposed to just a mental, slightly misogynistic, very bitter rant that does its author no favours.

[Alex W.]

So it turns out that the author in question had been going around trying to get her fired from her localisation clients long before she contacted the IGDA. Such ethics.

It looks like they were doing most of the legwork trying to get him the interviews he needed and he had a falling out with them.

[ZOK]

If you read the piece, a number of things are clear.

1) The guy is hysterical, and unreliable.

2) He vastly overestimates his own writing ability.

3) Please don't link to the Ralph Retort again, under any circumstances.

[Alex W.]

I don't see why anyone would look at Gamergate and conclude that dragging your dirty laundry out into the public like this is a good idea. "Hey, Erroneous Gjorny got fired, maybe I should do what he did."

[Tourist]

If you read the piece, a number of things are clear.

1) The guy is hysterical, and unreliable.

2) He vastly overestimates his own writing ability.

3) Please don't link to the Ralph Retort again, under any circumstances.

I agree with all of these things.

[earlymodernsteve]

Not to mention that the cover he talks about is damn ugly. And who has just their surname on the cover? Even the renowned Dan Brown (not the lovely Danster of these parts) isn't that presumptuous.

[Protocol Penguin]

So Szczepaniak blames some kind of SJW conspiracy or something for his book getting overlooked. No, it's because the book is badly written. I paid (to my regret) into the Kickstarter, and that book has amateurish presentation and almost non-existent editing, think a mid '90s photocopied fanzine taken to the size of a telephone directory. Total waste of money in my opinion, has really put me off donating to KS projects to be honest. Anyway, it's a niche subject area, was he expecting anything more than the a brief mention in Retro Gamer or wherever even if the book was any good?

[Alex W.]

Really? I read the excerpts on Digitiser and it seemed really interesting. Even if it's kind of formless, it'd be a useful reference for a future oral history.

[Wiper]

I kickstarted it too, and it is very amateurish, but also very interesting - the interviews are fascinating as archive content. But yeah, absolutely no style to it.

I'd have been happy with it (awful cover notwithstanding), but for the fact that throughout the project Szczepaniak proved himself to be a massive bellend, and made me regret that I'd given him any money.

[The Bag]

I've got my Kickstarted copy but have yet to find the time to read it. All I know from his KS updates is they were trying to sue him for something, anyone know what?

[Alex W.]

The way she tells it, he wrote to every one of her localisation clients - game publishers - and spread a lot of shit about her. At any rate she then sued him for defamation, but it was thrown out for lack of jurisdiction because she served his parents' address in France and he's actually a UK resident.

[Danster]

Not to mention that the cover he talks about is damn ugly. And who has just their surname on the cover? Even the renowned Dan Brown (not the lovely Danster of these parts) isn't that presumptuous.

[Anne Summers]

Sad to see Szczepaniak turning to Gamergate for support. Although having just read the most recent tweets by Agnes it seems that the libel case isn't actually over and will proceed in a UK court? Hard to know what the truth is here with both of them accusing the other one of blatant lying.

I will reserve judgement but it does seem to be a common theme that creators/developers/artists with conservative personal views (Which I assume Szczepaniak has from some of the language he uses) turns to Gamergate for solace and companionship, when their products don't perform well commercially.

[PK]

What a weird, fascinating saga. From her side of things he seems to be completely unhinged - http://versusjs.blogspot.co.uk/

[Tourist]

Like I say it is a total rabbithole. He certainly does not come across very well either in his Kickstarter updates or his communications with them.

[ZOK]

The one article linked to on Ralph Retort originally was enough for me to think he was totally unhinged! You don't even have to read between the lines, he thinks he is the world's best writer.

If that's the guy putting himself across in what he thinks is the best light...well, he isn't very self-aware.

[Fry Crayola]

I'm particularly intrigued as to why the versusjs site raises the question "Is John well?" and responds with a link to the Wikipedia article on electromagnetic hypersensitivity.

[Alex W.]

There's a section of the site that explains that John thinks he's allergic to wifi which is hard to avoid in Tokyo. Honestly I don't know what to make of that claim; it's hard to credit the idea that a games journalist would have that specific delusion.

[Kelthink]

I really can't believe people supported icycalm. Did people genuinely not know he was already unhinged?

[rumblecat]

To be fair, the Ralph Retort article (well, you know... blogpost) is from last year so it doesn't look like his attempt to involve Gamergate did much good, although they tend to see RR as full of shit as well.

edit: @Kelthink - isn't icycalm somebody different..?

[Kelthink]

To be fair, the Ralph Retort article (well, you know... blogpost) is from last year so it doesn't look like his attempt to involve Gamergate did much good, although they tend to see RR as full of shit as well.

edit: @Kelthink - isn't icycalm somebody different..?

Oh it's Sketch! Oh sorry, jumped the gun.

He was also 'a bit wrong'. Got banned from forums for being genuinely racist. I think he thought of Japan as a superior society before he went, he's one of 'those people'.

[Nick R]

I haven't followed Sketch's Japanese developer book kickstarter at all until it was mentioned in this thread. But he almost certainly isn't icycalm.

At the risk of getting a bit too gossipy: in our thread about that kickstarter, Liquid Myth linked to a SelectButton thread from 2010 in which he said:

Based on my Cattel test scores I have an IQ so high I'm eligible for membership not only in MENSA but in the Triple Nine Society.

As far as can be measured by human beings, I am a genius.

Whether that's a genuine boast or just a jokey exaggeration, that's pretty much the icycalmiest thing it's possible to say!