Gender Diversity / Politics in games (was Tropes Vs. Women)

[Jarik]

I wouldn't think you'd need to be a racist to write a good story about racism, in the same way as you wouldn't need to be a criminal to write a good story about crime.

[Capwn]

A few people posting this today as a victory against Anita Sarkeesian, a German study is apparently evidence that there is no link between games and sexist attitudes. The blog didn't actually give any examples of evidence so I tried to find it myself, to open it up you have to pay $51 :/

http://www.forbes.com/sites/olliebarder/2015/04/10/new-study-finds-no-link-between-gaming-and-sexist-attitudes/

Oh I did find this little bit from the abstract;

"Controlling for age and education, it was found that sexist attitudes—measured with a brief scale assessing beliefs about gender roles in society—were not related to the amount of daily video game use or preference for specific genres for both female and male players. Implications for research on sexism in video games and cultivation effects of video games in general are discussed."

I think a GG just found that and posted about it, without paying the $51 to open it. Because there are no quotes from within the study.

[Nick R]

I thought we'd resolved months ago not to link to Cacophanus' writing in this thread...?

[Anne Summers]

They let anyone write for Forbes these days (including me lol).

That article is clearly ridiculous. He starts off talking about a scientific study (which is about "Do games make you sexist?") then by the end is talking blatant gamergate nonsense about people saying "gaming itself is somehow ethically and morally bankrupt as a medium" (who said this, ever?) and "the argument that gaming as a whole is inherently sexist" (again, never heard anyone make this argument).

[Alex W.]

Take a scientific study you're only passingly familiar with, don't contact the authors, and use it as evidence for whatever it is you want to say about games.

I can see why Jack Thompson fit in.

[ZOK]

A few people posting this today as a victory against Anita Sarkeesian, a German study is apparently evidence that there is no link between games and sexist attitudes. The blog didn't actually give any examples of evidence so I tried to find it myself, to open it up you have to pay $51 :/

http://www.forbes.com/sites/olliebarder/2015/04/10/new-study-finds-no-link-between-gaming-and-sexist-attitudes/

Oh I did find this little bit from the abstract;

"Controlling for age and education, it was found that sexist attitudes—measured with a brief scale assessing beliefs about gender roles in society—were not related to the amount of daily video game use or preference for specific genres for both female and male players. Implications for research on sexism in video games and cultivation effects of video games in general are discussed."

I think a GG just found that and posted about it, without paying the $51 to open it. Because there are no quotes from within the study.

Worth reading the comments (not the article), as some thoughtful people rip the Gamer Gate cheerleaders to shreds there.

[K]

I guess if science has proved that games don't make you sexist, they'll have to look for another reason as to why all Gamergate supporters are raging misogynists.

[Sledge]

Even if one had ironclad proof that the tiresome sexism in vidgames was an effect of misogyny rather than the cause of it, I don't see how that'd be much of a cultural victory.

[TheSlugFormerlyKnownAsNap]

The outcome of the study is a good thing I suppose, just as when it was pretty much concluded that playing violent videogames are unlikely to make us violent. So even if some games are sexist or misogynistic, our fragile little souls seem to be equipped to handle it without permanent damage which at least is one less string on the bow of censorship advocates.

[Anne Summers]

Definitely but none of the people who Gamergate is railing against are advocating censorship. They are all just saying that the average game dev studio could do a bit better when it comes to how they portray women (or minorities or anyone who isn't a white hetero male).

[Comrade]

Cacophanus writes for Forbes now?!

[TheSlugFormerlyKnownAsNap]

Definitely but none of the people who Gamergate is railing against are advocating censorship. They are all just saying that the average game dev studio could do a bit better when it comes to how they portray women (or minorities or anyone who isn't a white hetero male).

Well, there was some stuff going on in Australia with stores refusing to stock GTA and maybe some other titles and the like on the back of anti-sexism advocates so it isn't completely unprecedented.

[Anne Summers]

He's a contributor which is like a guest blogger. The barriers to becoming one are fairly low. As you can see by the quality of some of the content they provide. Lots of (formerly) fairly prestigious publications are going down this route in the quest for unending content.

[Anne Summers]

Well, there was some stuff going on in Australia with stores refusing to stock GTA and maybe some other titles and the like on the back of anti-sexism advocates so it isn't completely unprecedented.

Well I don't know about that, but there have been those sort of campaigns for decades about anything vaguely controversial. Usually conservative/family values types rather than feminists. But you certainly never hear Anita Sarkeesian or any of the people who Gamergate spend their time hating, saying anything like that.

[TheSlugFormerlyKnownAsNap]

Ahuh, but as this is now the general Game Politics thread it's still something to consider, no?

[Unofficial Who]

It was a pretty easy sacrifice for the stores in question to make as they sell more to kids than adults. Business wise they would have used the space to sell Amibos and Skylanders instead.

But that protest had little to no effect, if it had Rockstar would have been able to take the organisers to court for affecting commercial trade.

[Unofficial Who]

Well Gamergate got what they wanted and finally stopped Zoe Quinn from talking in public.

Oh wait, no. The opposite thing.

http://www.polygon.com/2015/4/15/8420237/depression-quest-creator-speaks-at-congressional-briefing-on

Zoe Quinn, the Depression Quest creator and co-founder of support group Crash Override, spoke at a congressional briefing this morning about cyberstalking and online threats.
The National Task Force to End Sexual and Domestic Violence, National Council of Women's Organizations and The National Organization for Women are holding the congressional briefing in partnership with U.S. Rep. Katherine Clark (D-Mass.)

During the briefing, experts will discuss the prevalence of cyberstalking and online threats and how to combat them.

[MDY]

They struck her down.. and she became more powerful than they could possibly imagine..

[loathsomeleopard]

Well, there was some stuff going on in Australia with stores refusing to stock GTA and maybe some other titles and the like on the back of anti-sexism advocates so it isn't completely unprecedented.

That's not quite correct -- they weren't anti-sexism advocates per se (though I suspect they'd happily be part of that group as well) -- the campaign was rather more specifically around sexual violence in GTA (and the rather tired kill-hookers-for-their-cash thing). Blatant Plug: I wrote about it here.

[Unofficial Who]

Quite right loathsome (the perils of half remembering things.)

Australia has an issue with violence against women that probably makes some of the criticism of GTA and the like a bit of a local issue.

So far in Australia 31 women have been murdered, mainly by partners with some random attacks here and there. So while randomly smashing a woman to the ground and kicking her to death seems like otherworldly fantasy to people in the UK and US down here it's a bit of a hot button topic.

And as always politicians love it when the people protest against GTA rather than doing the hard yards. If it kicks off again with the PC release no doubt our leaders will be happy with attention being taken away from the reduced funding of women's shelters this year.

[The Bag]

GGers have got themselves a booth at Calgary Expo, and are attending panels to harrass speakers.

The expo has evicted them, do lots of cries of free speech on Twitter. Write up here: http://www.themarysue.com/calgary-expo-gamergate-evicted/

[Benny]

lol wut

[Alex W.]

It's not like they were associated with A Voice for Men or anything!

[Spacehost]

Gamergate seems to think "opposing censorship" means "people always have to listen to what everyone says and give them a space to say it".

I mean, if a radical feminist group infiltrated the con to hijack panels in order to spout their opinion they'd get booted out as well.

[Dig Dug]

I like how these self proclaimed defenders of geekdom admitted they had created fake geek personas to get into the expo.

[Dig Dug]

Gamergate seems to think "opposing censorship" means "people always have to listen to what everyone says and give them a space to say it".

So that's why GG podcasts are 6 hours long.

[Spacehost]

I bet their fake geek personae were also toe-curlingly embarrassing.

[Rudi von Starnberg]

come on guys

We plan to infiltrate nerd culture cunningly disguised as their own. Each of us has been carefully crafting a persona of nerdiness through decades of dedication to comics, science fiction, fantasy, comedy games and other geekery, waiting for this moment, our moment to slip among the unaware. Once there we will start distributing the totalitarian message that nerd and gamer culture is… perfectly wonderful just as it is and should be left alone to go it’s own way.

they're pricks but this is clearly a joke about how they're Real Geeks, not an admission of purposeful infiltration

[Dig Dug]

Yeah we know, we're dicking on them for being try hards.

[The Bag]

And top hat boy continues to be a dick: http://www.kotaku.co.uk/2015/04/16/popular-youtuber-says-wont-cover-game-twitter-spat