Jump to content
rllmuk
Unofficial Who

Gender Diversity / Politics in games (was Tropes Vs. Women)

Recommended Posts

The console platform holders won't allow this gane on their platforms either (or anything with an Adults Only rating in the US) . That isn't censorship either.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Might Hatred actually constitute an art game at this point? I mean it's clearly constructed almost entirely to meet a particular vision regardless of commercial impact and alienation of general distributors.

Or have I just completely lost it?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

There's a pretty massive leap between government-enforced restrictions and retailers choosing not to distribute/publishers deciding not to publish things.

The first line of lag's post explains the the subject of his post namely that the slippery slope is not always a fallacy.

Anyway you're right of course but Lag's example is still relevant in other ways.

Anyway whether or not anything I'm occasionally perturbed by in the trope/GG debate actually leads down any road almost doesn't matter as there are just certain things that I dislike viscerally (whiffs of bullshit) and am not keen on, in the same way we hear some religious person chat shit about something and immedietly get irritated even if we know they have no power.

As I said, it's the Mary Whitehouse vibe. The weird moral crusade as RubberJohnny describes it on the last page.

  • Downvote 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

As pointed out here http://www.rockpapershotgun.com/2014/12/16/hatred-removed-from-steam/#more-258097 (and probably better discussed in the Hatred thread unless Hatred suddenly has a sub level involving killing women for fun) Valve sell other violent games and are a near monopoly. So it's still effectivly censorship.

The game clearly allows you to kill women though and as per the logic displayed in Sarkeesians videos and by many here it is automatically on the misogynist pile?
  • Downvote 19

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Neither Sarkeesian in her videos nor anybody in this thread claims that a game allowing you to kill women makes it misogynistic. The context matters.

  • Upvote 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

As pointed out here http://www.rockpapershotgun.com/2014/12/16/hatred-removed-from-steam/#more-258097 (and probably better discussed in the Hatred thread unless Hatred suddenly has a sub level involving killing women for fun) Valve sell other violent games and are a near monopoly. So it's still effectivly censorship.

Steam being the only way to get PC games and all...

Seriously, if your business plan is:

- make game

- get on Steam

- profit

then it's a terrible business plan. Everybody making games knows you're far, far, far more likely to not get on Steam that to get on it, and if you're naive enough to not know that then some basic research would soon fill you in. Even if they got a load of votes on Greenlight Valve don't have to let them on. Having a publisher is no guarantee either, although it makes things easier, Valve still have to approve everything.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Neither Sarkeesian in her videos nor anybody in this thread claims that a game allowing you to kill women makes it misogynistic. The context matters.

You're right; just being able to beat female NPCs let alone kill them makes them sexist. See Sarkeesians misleading montage from Sleeping Dogs.

  • Upvote 1
  • Downvote 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

You're right; just being able to beat female NPCs let alone kill them makes them sexist. See Sarkeesians misleading montage from Sleeping Dogs.

Neither Sarkeesian in her videos nor anybody in this thread claims that a game allowing you to kill or beat women makes it misogynistic. The context matters.

That context is provided - literally hours of it - in Tropes vs. Women. I worry that you're keen to point out a particular clip as flawed (it may well be, I haven't played Sleeping Dogs) to discredit the series, when the whole thesis of the series is to call out wider trends more than specific examples.

  • Upvote 2
  • Downvote 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

It's back on Steam after all. So ultimately Valve just gave the game free publicity.

It's really pretty easy to make a nice pile of money - step 1, make a chan-baiting controversy attracting game. Step 2 profit.

Doesn't need to be a good game at this point. Impressive, really.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Now, now, I don't think Sarkeesian planned all the rabid froth-mouthed attention she got. The fact the attention it garnered her made her make more money than she'd expected is neither here nor there.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

That's true. Gamers have always had a reputation for being calm and relaxed about criticism of their past time or their favourite games

  • Upvote 2
  • Downvote 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The game clearly allows you to kill women though and as per the logic displayed in Sarkeesians videos and by many here it is automatically on the misogynist pile?

Classic #GamerGate

  • Upvote 10
  • Downvote 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Oliver Campbell, the sometimes JOURNALIST who likes to use CAPITAL LETTERS a lot. Also the man who said that accusing GamerGate of not being about ethics is the SAME as rejecting your child when they tell you your gay.

Just to recap on that one-

I'm curious, Antis. How is your excommunication/banishment behaviors against the marginalized ANY DIFFERENT than parental disownment?


Child: "Mom, Dad, I'm gay."
Parents: "YOU DON'T BELIEVE WHAT WE BELIEVE, YOU'RE NOT MY KID, STAY AWAY."

Marginalized: "I think ethics are really important."
Antis: "YOU DON'T BELIEVE WHAT WE BELIEVE, STAY AWAY. YOU SUPPORT HARASSMENT!"

You see how that works?


Like a lot of great artists he probably struggled with the follow-up- once you've thrown that seamless logic out there, it's difficult to know where to go next. But, like Godfather 2 and Empire Strikes Back, he found a way.

post-9022-0-54102900-1418811139.png

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The game clearly allows you to kill women though and as per the logic displayed in Sarkeesians videos and by many here it is automatically on the misogynist pile?

Smitty, there are times when you seem genuinely interested in having this discussion, and times when you seem to be more interested in parroting some bizarre straw man than actually listening to what people are saying. Please, next time you're going to write something like this, go away and read/watch/listen to whatever it is you're reacting to and see what it actually says.

  • Upvote 3

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Have you not heard "Dream 2: Women stay in their god damn place"? It's less well known than the original but it's actually really innovative. MLK also has a new hat (the new hat costs £4.99).

  • Upvote 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

That's true. Gamers have always had a reputation for being calm and relaxed about criticism of their past time or their favourite games

Yeah, she was asking for it, right? :rolleyes:
  • Upvote 4

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I don't think that guy knows what a shibboleth is. I mean he's right, Gamergate has given us some great shibboleths, but from the context I don't think he meant that.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Smitty, there are times when you seem genuinely interested in having this discussion, and times when you seem to be more interested in parroting some bizarre straw man than actually listening to what people are saying. Please, next time you're going to write something like this, go away and read/watch/listen to whatever it is you're reacting to and see what it actually says.

When was the last time you saw Smitty contribute to a discussion? He's either trying to start something new or arguing with everyone. Every fucking time.

  • Upvote 4
  • Downvote 4

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

When was the last time you saw Smitty contribute to a discussion? He's either trying to start something new or arguing with everyone. Every fucking time.

I thought he was on great form yesterday.

  • Upvote 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

When was the last time you saw Smitty contribute to a discussion? He's either trying to start something new or arguing with everyone. Every fucking time.

false

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Yeah, she was asking for it, right? :rolleyes:

I didn't say anything of the sort. I was criticising the typically gamer for being a bit hysterical.

Having said that, If I go into a pub full of Chelsea fans and say "I hate Chelsea", I would expect a reaction. Whether I would deserve the level of vitriol is a different matter.

  • Upvote 3

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Thought crime! You're on the list now, Pete!

Couldn't give a fuck , mate.

You sarcastically implied that she planned it.

Bollocks.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.

×
×
  • Create New...

Important Information

We have placed cookies on your device to help make this website better. You can adjust your cookie settings, otherwise we'll assume you're okay to continue. Use of this website is subject to our Privacy Policy, Terms of Use, and Guidelines.