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Game of Thrones - No Book Chat. NONE. The Books don't exist.

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Season 6 has some iffiness creeping in but it’s still good. Season 7 is where the complaints really started ramping up, because that was where it became clear that they were trying to get it wrapped up as quickly as possible, to the detriment of the quality. They could have done a lot better if they’d had the desire, but they just wanted it over and done with. That’s their prerogative, but I’m not going to feel bad for them over it.

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9 minutes ago, Omizzay said:

...they made the difficult decision to go it alone.  And I applaud them for it.  

 

alan-partridge-funny-quotes-fresh-best-a

 

 

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1 hour ago, The Fox said:

I kinda wish they’d actually presented it like this

 

 

 

honestly - that's exactly how I think it's going to pan out in the books... but the programme couldn't go to that level of depth because they didn't bother explaining who the 3ER was and where he came from...   my interpretation of the ending is that Brandyn Rivers, the bastard Targaryen, is on the throne... he's leaving the small folks to bicker about sorting out Kings Landing while he goes off to find Drogon.

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1 hour ago, Fletch said:

So wait a minute, there are many many sailing ships in Westeros, but no one has ever decided to go West of Westeros before now?

 

have you never played Civilisation?  It's a lot easier to take ships along the coast and the narrow sea... it's a different kettle of fish heading off into completely open and uncharted ocean

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GRRM should just start the next book with

 

Spoiler

Stabbed to death by the Night’s Watch John Snow’s eyes turning ice blue.

 

Then we can really concentrate on Pretty Pig.

 

Also another 900 pages of Brieanne walking around in a circle.

 

 

 

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Just now, Naieve said:

Arya's gonna end up killing so many indigenous people in Americos :(

 

 

 

she's immune to greyscale - but a carrier... and decimates the entire population.

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6 minutes ago, scottcr said:

 

have you never played Civilisation?  It's a lot easier to take ships along the coast and the narrow sea... it's a different kettle of fish heading off into completely open and uncharted ocean

 

I used to love sending a trireme out into the ocean in the hope that it'd find land we could claim before it sank. To hell with the crew!

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Just now, Fry Crayola said:

 

I used to love sending a trireme out into the ocean in the hope that it'd find land we could claim before it sank. To hell with the crew!

 

hahaha.. .likewise. :D

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10 minutes ago, scottcr said:

 

have you never played Civilisation?  It's a lot easier to take ships along the coast and the narrow sea... it's a different kettle of fish heading off into completely open and uncharted ocean

 

If only they had some sort of flying, winged-like creature that someone could have hopped on to check. Damn.

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They're cousins - that might fly with Lannisters and Targaryens but not the Starks. 

 

Of course, normally I'd just say we never saw a marriage so no, but fuck knows what D&D decided happened in the time skips.

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6 hours ago, schmojo said:

Drogon wouldn't have killed Jon, but would have understood the reason for Dany's death (and decline).

 

Er... himself?

 

6 hours ago, SpagMasterSwift said:

Especially loved the dragon wings behind her, Imp throwing down his badge

 

The first bit was my least favourite, as if written by a Sonic-with-guns 13-year-old. Numetalberg; I get the picture. I'm not ragging on it as an idea, I just think it was plank-to-the-face subtle. They could've done it in sunny Meereen.

 

And Tyrion throwing down his badge a day from retirement in front of all those Unsullied and Dothraki was totally asking for a Thulsa-Dooming, but Dany's evil was selective to suit. So too the behaviour of most characters, such as Varys becoming a careless fatalist after surviving Littlefinger with superior wits.

 

3 hours ago, The Fox said:

I kinda wish they’d actually presented it like this

 

 

 

Toxo Bran's right there on the table, especially in light of him letting so many innocents die for familial gain, but it's like they threw a cloth over it to try and hide that. It's never been hinted that he can see multiple futures, hence choosing the least damaging timeline.

 

3 hours ago, Omizzay said:

The Door remains my all-time favourite episode ever on GoT.  The Winds of Winter and Battle of the Bastards, which they also wrote, are also regarded universally as some of the best.

 

Most of my friends hated Hodor's treatment and consider it a sharkjump. I know someone who hasn't watched any more seasons because of it. I thought it was cheesily okay. BotB was one of the main spectacle eps, but I prefer Blackwater for its greater focus on the emotions of battle, rather than just the terror. BotB is a great complement, but represents the action-film era that followed without ever matching its heights. The will-they-won't-they Vale appearance was a 101 cliche and so on, whereas Blackwater was tactically sound, and because of the mortality rate at the time, actually more tense for my master of coin.

 

[edit]

 

I've always known that I'd enjoy this series less as it went on, because I loved its medieval stuff alongside the lowest of fantasy, but its balance was always going to shift from the former to the latter, becoming more fantastical as it went. That's a personal thing rather than a criticism, because there are loads of viewers with the reverse opinion — those who couldn't wait for the dragons to grow up, etc.

 

(I enjoyed the first Scorpion battle, but I think that's it for me re: dragons. Everything else reminded me of 3DMark 2001.)

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Did they ever actually state that Bran could see the future? I only ever recall him delving into the past with the weirwoods, as well as being able to transport his consciousness in the present, but then towards the end he keeps dropping lines insinuating that he can in fact see things that haven't happened yet ("Waiting for an old friend"; "Why do you think I came all this way?").

 

In which case, as you say, is it not a pretty fucking bad look that he just lets the massacre at King's Landing go ahead? I guess it could be because he doesn't fancy their chances of toppling Cersei without Drogon? That's the only reasoning I can come up with.

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8 minutes ago, The Fox said:

Did they ever actually state that Bran could see the future? I only ever recall him delving into the past with the weirwoods, as well as being able to transport his consciousness in the present, but then towards the end he keeps dropping lines insinuating that he can in fact see things that haven't happened yet ("Waiting for an old friend"; "Why do you think I came all this way?").

 

In which case, as you say, is it not a pretty fucking bad look that he just lets the massacre at King's Landing go ahead? I guess it could be because he doesn't fancy their chances of toppling Cersei without Drogon? That's the only reasoning I can come up with.

 

he wants to be King... and the only way he'll be king is by letting Dany do what she did, topple Cersei and then be killed herself.

 

We never found out what  Bran told Tyrion when they had a chat by themselves... but I suspect he put the doubts into Tyrion's head.  

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6 minutes ago, scottcr said:

 

he wants to be King... and the only way he'll be king is by letting Dany do what she did, topple Cersei and then be killed herself.

 

We never found out what  Bran told Tyrion when they had a chat by themselves... but I suspect he put the doubts into Tyrion's head.  

 

Sorry, you are actually saying that Bran wants to be King? As in, he has a desire as a character to be King?

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7 minutes ago, scottcr said:

 

he wants to be King... and the only way he'll be king is by letting Dany do what she did, topple Cersei and then be killed herself.

 

We never found out what  Bran told Tyrion when they had a chat by themselves... but I suspect he put the doubts into Tyrion's head.  

 

But why does he suddenly want to be king? He's basically been a mystical robot since he came out of that cave. He hasn't seemed like he wants anything, or even feels anything. I like the idea of Evil Megalomaniac Bran, but that isn't something they've really presented. At all.

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but then... I (and I'll get negged again for it as it's winding someone up) reckon that it's not Bran anymore - it's the 3ER who's taken over his mind and controlling him.  

 

So, it's either he knew he was going to be king so just peaced out till it happened because it was inevitable - or he pushed certain people in particular directions to ensure the future where he became King came to pass.  That meant encouraging an angry Sam to tell Jon about his lineage (against Sam's initial judgement - Bran took advantage of his emotional state).  It meant making sure Arya got the dagger... shit it might even had meant that he made sure that Littlefingers dagger was used to try and kill him in the first place.  

 

I don't think the show did a great job of projecting bad Bran - but it was only after the fact, when I started thinking about why he knew he was going to be King, why Tyrion picked him and why he's particularly interested in finding Drogon - did I start to think that there's more to it.... and for obsessives like me who have read a lot of the history, it makes sense.  

 

We'll never know until the books are finished... and even then, it might be left open.  But Bran *definitely* changed significantly after the Max Von Raven *died* and made a point of reminding everyone who asked that he was not Bran anymore.

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18 minutes ago, Talk Show Host said:

 

Sorry, you are actually saying that Bran wants to be King? As in, he has a desire as a character to be King?

 

yes

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4 minutes ago, Talk Show Host said:

 

So you are basically making up stuff in order to deal with the faults of the narrative. :P

 

I did say the show didn't make this clear - it's also not confirmed that Brandyn Rivers became the 3ER in the books yet.  Still being argued about.  All I'm saying that the 3ER took over Bran's mind and it's him that's on the Throne... 

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If they intended on the takeaway being 'Bran has been possessed by power-hungry Max von Sidow and nobody even knows it!', then they'd have carried over the Bloodraven plotline from the book. Without that, the theory makes pretty much no sense.

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Just now, scottcr said:

 

I did say the show didn't make this clear - it's also not confirmed that Brandyn Rivers became the 3ER in the books yet.  Still being argued about.  All I'm saying that the 3ER took over Bran's mind and it's him that's on the Throne... 

 

But none of these exist in the show. That can't be an argument to justify why Bran became King. 

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So you think they predicated the entire end of the show on it being the elaborate Machiavellian plot of a character, who popped up very briefly as a side character in a couple of spin-off novellas, pulling a long con, all this without any mention of said character’s backstory or motivations in the show itself, and then didn’t do anything at all to flag this at all to viewers? Death of the author and all that and if it makes you enjoy the show more then so be it, but there's about as much to support the theory as that Star Wars story that claimed IG-88 was actually the Death Star computer.

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3 minutes ago, The Fox said:

If they intended on the takeaway being 'Bran has been possessed by power-hungry Max von Sidow and nobody even knows it!', then they'd have carried over the Bloodraven plotline from the book. Without that, the theory makes pretty much no sense.

 

yeap - and I don't know why they didn't.  The whole Targaryen Blackfyre rebellion history, the Golden Company and new heir 'Young Griff' is a pretty major part of the books.  The only reference back to *any* of this stuff in the show is when Aemon talks about Egg as he dies.

 

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1 minute ago, scottcr said:

 

yeap - and I don't know why they didn't. 

 

The reason they didn't is because, while it's a fun theory, it quite simply is not what happened in the TV show. There is absolutely no evidence to support it.

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