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Game of Thrones - No Book Chat. NONE. The Books don't exist.

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36 minutes ago, scottcr said:

 

rarely has there been so wrong in so little words

 

Absolutely, this looked great. The queen face off across the city was extremely well-done, just before they mugged everyone off with the reality of war.

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55 minutes ago, BossSaru said:

A shame that they made him look like a cross between Uncle Fester and RotJ Anakin though. I was hoping for a properly rotten head with half the flesh missing.

 

Yeah I felt that. For a moment I thought it was a green undead Varys.

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I'm glad they didn't go too far with it. I liked the idea of him ever so slowly putrefying.

(He looks a lot paler and greener than he did in the rape scene.)

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There's a guy in my office who rants about this show every week now and is very much in the "everything is stupid and makes no sense" school of thought. His criticisms ultimately down to the fact that the pacing has stepped up dramatically in the last couple of seasons and events happen too quickly. I don't think that's a strong criticism at all. I can understand a personal preference for the pacing of the earlier seasons, but you have to evaluate these latest episodes on their own merits.

 

Then there's the character development criticism especially with regard to Daenerys. I really don't see how her character needed any more development than what we've already had across many seasons to make that plot turn consistent and believable. It happening when it did and how it did was a fine balance between being consistent with her character arc while maintaining some shock value. Actual human beings regularly do terrible things in extraordinary situations that are far more incongruous with what people understood their characters to be than what happened in this episode of TV. Aung San Suu Kyi, who someone brought up earlier in the thread, being a perfect example.

 

I should say that GoT has never been one of my favourite shows (I enjoy it, but not on the same level as BB/Better Call Saul, Mad Men, Twin Peaks and other shows), so my point of view probably comes from a place of being less personally invested in it and the characters than a lot of the people who are now upset with it.

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Larger clangers aside, what annoyed me most was how rubbish the Golden Company was. They’ve been built up to be this elite fighting force, probably on par with the Unsullied, and all we see of them is getting roasted on bastillas and cut down by Dothraki (speaking of which, weren’t all the Dothraki supposed to have died in the battle of Winterfell?) 

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Didn't Dany turn evil last week anyway? We all knew what was coming.

 

Anyway after watching it again, in the darker light of the afternoon rather than the full morning glare, it's really really violent. Graphically so. I'm suren it's a nod toward the "tactical" bombing of WW2.

 

Also I like how the wide shot of the city from the keep doesn't change and you gradually see it destroyed through the episode. This is is the single biggest genocide in the history of westeros, probably a million people. At least biggest deliberate one.

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17 minutes ago, SM47 said:

Can we appreciate the callous killing of Qyburn? I thought that was excellent and might be my favourite character death of the whole show. 

 

Fair play to the old geezer - loyal to Cersei right to the end. 

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We knew Dany was going evil since series 1. It was obvious. Literally nobody who has ever seen game of thrones was surprised at what happened. That's why people naming their children Khaleesi has always been hilarious. The problem is how fucking hamfistedly it played out.

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I still think that this could've been up there with Season 3 or 4 as one of the best seasons of GOT if the showrunners had given us 4 more episodes.  

 

So many things feel rushed and therefore "out of character" but would've made a lot more sense if given more time and care.

 

Shame!

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As has been said, an extremely impressive piece of television and whilst an enjoyable and appropriately gruesome episode it’s also somehow feels extremely unsatisfying. 

 

I’ve no major qualms with Dany losing it although the pacing and race to get this series finished has seriously let it down.  One of the best things about GoT is the characters and the fact that there are very few out and out ‘goodies’ and ‘baddies’. Avoiding those tropes is what made the subject matter so much better than your average sword and sorcery epic. They seemed to have lost this even if we saw glimpses of it like the scenes with Tyrion and Jaime or Hound and Arya. 

 

I think part of it is that I really couldn’t give a shit about Missandei or Grey Worm so, personally, I felt zero dramatic impact. Whilst I understood that  the beheading was a final catalyst for Dany going berserk I felt that she didn’t earn the shades of grey that would have made you empathise with the character’s motivations a little more. Sure you can argue that they’ve foreshadowed that she is actually just a nutty tyrant but that’s just far less interesting. 

 

Also, not having a Stark or even Dany have a personal face off with Cersei was hugely disappointing.  I appreciate that in some ways that’s a subversion of a trope but the Starks suffered so much at the hands of the Lannisters  over the course of the series it would have been nice to see some form of personal revenge. I was almost hoping Jaime would turn out to be Arya at the end and for her to get to kill Cersei whilst dying herself would have been a great and a fitting way for both Lannisters to go. I’d rather have seen that than Arya’s heroics at the Battle of Winterfell. 

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No one except Dorne, the Iron Islands, the Stormlands, the Unsullied, the Dothraki, the warden of the north etc etc.

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Her going nuts because Jon spurns her would have been more effective if the pair of them didn’t have even less the chemistry of Ben Affleck and Henry Cavill on screen.

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6 hours ago, mdn2 said:

I think Jamie is the character who's been short changed the most recently. He travelled up north, shagged Brian, came back south to be with his sister and had a building fall on in.

 

I keep thinking back to that Lannister-history-book scene when they wrote him off for his Mr Han[d], and he said there was still time for his chapter. It now reads that he survived the undead for half an hour and was killed in a construction accident after a set-to with the foreman.

 

5 hours ago, BossSaru said:

Cleganebowl was always going to underwhelm.

 

But it was so close! They were right next to the map room where they should've been fighting (ending could've been the same), and the Mountain should've been hacking chunks out of those pillars by actually swinging. Instead, they reserved the room for Jaime and Cersei to no great effect. When he caught the Hound's sword in his hand, it was fine that he didn't feel pain, but rotten flesh is flesh, and the Hound could've cut his fingers off when he released it.

 

Storywise, the Hound gave up on killing his brother when he left Joffrey, and during his time with Arya was shown to have stopped caring about revenge through weariness. This was never truer than when he joined Lovejoy's gang with intentions to stay retired. Never works out that way in TV, but nevertheless, that was a memorable period of his arc. So to have him barrelling after the Mountain felt a bit odd to me, at least without pausing for thought after sending Arya away. I'd have liked to have seen him reflect for a moment before carrying on, or just standing there in the map room when the others appeared. Cleganebowl had to happen because fans, but it wasn't a bad send-off for them if executed well.

 

I only think it was bad for taking place in a massively cramped area, where the Mountain just stood there doing his ‘Come at me, Bro’ routine for most of it, as Drogon's flames lit up the sky like fireworks. It had nothing on Oberyn's fight, and I had this in mind leading up to it:

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ii6XQkiVa2o

 

5 hours ago, whizzo said:

If only Drogon had a way of attacking people that has been repeatedly shown to have no effect on Danerys......

 

But how would you write it if Jon's right next to her? A captured Grey Worm? I totally get what you're saying, but from a writing point of view it's Dany-kills-everyone. Which might well be accurate at this point, but I can't see many viewers being happy with what, in reality, is most plausible.

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44 minutes ago, Harsin said:

Her going nuts because Jon spurns her would have been more effective if the pair of them didn’t have even less the chemistry of Ben Affleck and Henry Cavill on screen.

She knows his wife!  It's more awks than Lord of the Rings.

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56 minutes ago, Harsin said:

Her going nuts because Jon spurns her would have been more effective if the pair of them didn’t have even less the chemistry of Ben Affleck and Henry Cavill on screen.

 

Ι can't argue with that, their chemistry is awful. I would have better chemistry with Dany than John. 

 

Spoiler

:eyebrows:

 

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27 minutes ago, Escaped said:

I only think it was bad for taking place in a massively cramped area, where the Mountain just stood there doing his ‘Come at me, Bro’ routine for most of it, as Drogon's flames lit up the sky like fireworks. It had nothing on Oberyn's fight, and I had this in mind leading up to it:

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ii6XQkiVa2o

 

Was I the only one getting Highlander Kurgan vs Ramirez vibes from it? A big lad, a narrow staircase, apocalyptic shit going on in the background..

 

They should've had Brian May's face superimposed over the top and a little snippet of 'Who Wants to Live Forever' as they fell.

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3 hours ago, SM47 said:

Can we appreciate the callous killing of Qyburn? I thought that was excellent and might be my favourite character death of the whole show. 

 

A lot people are pissed at it but he was a pretty feeble old dude.

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5 hours ago, morcs said:

 

Yeah I felt that. For a moment I thought it was a green undead Varys.

 

I thought bald Grott Bags.

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