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Game of Thrones - No Book Chat. NONE. The Books don't exist.


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2 hours ago, grindmouse said:

The event people are referring to couldn’t have been more heavily foreshadowed.

 

I mean, I get the writing is pap now compared to book material, but the idea this just happened in 5 minutes is nonsense.

 

No it's not

 

Spoiler

The turn to kill innocent people was instant. Shes made mistake before through rashness like when she fucked up with the Slaver Cities. She thought she was doing good by just killing the slave masters and freeing the slaves. She didn't listen to her advisors then and it set her back. Pretty sure it's even acknowledged that she made a mistake and would listen to people again.

 

Here she just jumped straight into the deep end after a few shifty looks and losing a dragon and her friend the previous episode. She feels betrayed which is understandable but does that warrent burning all the people she came to rule and love.

 

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16 minutes ago, Stigweard said:
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Watch the scene again, its actually snow not Ash. The vision shows Winter and destruction coming KL which would have hinted more towards the Night King. Winter is nowhere near KL at the moment 

 

 

Spoiler

It could be either - one of if not the main theme of the whole thing has been ice v fire.  It's not too much of a stretch of the imagination to link the two together.  Where she thought ice was coming to destroy KL, it was actually her, via fire.  She thought she was the saviour, but she's the destroyer.

 

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2 minutes ago, Boothjan said:

 

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It could be either - one of if not the main theme of the whole thing has been ice v fire.  It's not too much of a stretch of the imagination to link the two together.  Where she thought ice was coming to destroy KL, it was actually her, via fire.  She thought she was the saviour, but she's the destroyer.

 

Spoiler

It's clearly snow. Its white and she walks out the doors to a wintery blast. 

 

You're looking for some kind of justification that isn't there.

 

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6 minutes ago, Stigweard said:
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It's clearly snow. Its white and she walks out the doors to a wintery blast. 

 

You're looking for some kind of justification that isn't there.

 

 

Spoiler

I'm really not :lol:

 

I think it makes perfect sense - it works for me anyway so I'm happy. :)

 

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12 minutes ago, Stigweard said:

 

No it's not

 

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The turn to kill innocent people was instant. She shows mistake before through rashness like when she fucked up with the Slaver Cities. She she thought she was doing good by just killing the slavers and freeing the slaves. She didn't listen to her advisors then and it set her back. Pretty sure it's even acknowledged that she made a mistake and would listen to people again.

 

Here just jumped straight into the deep end after a few shifty looks and losing a dragon and her friend the previous epsidoes. She feels betrayed which is understandable but does that warrent burning all the people she came to rule and love.

 

 



She has been adored by the Dothraki and the Unsullied... but Westeros hasn’t embraced her. The people of KL would’ve have seen her as an usurper they probably didn’t want. She decided that she had to go with shock and awe and she establish her claim with pure fear.

 

Im now convinced Bran is going to warg into drogon.

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8 minutes ago, scottcr said:

 

 

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She has been adored by the Dothraki and the Unsullied... but Westeros hasn’t embraced her. The people of KL would’ve have seen her as an usurper they probably didn’t want. She decided that she had to go with shock and awe and she establish her claim with pure fear.

 

Im now convinced Bran is going to warg into drogon.
 

 

 

 

I mean she could have at least tried the nice approach first.

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1 hour ago, Mr. Gerbik said:

For those surprised that people don't like this season, keep in mind that the twists in themselves aren't the problem. The character endings in themselves aren't the problem. The events in themselves aren't the problem. It's the bad writing, *that's* the problem. Good writing and convincing character development could have sold all these story beats even if you're never going to please everyone's personal idea of how it should have ended. 

 

"Bad Writing" is the most subjective criticism ever. The story beats are what feel the most off for me rather than actual character development. It's been excellent so far, especially eps. 2 and 3...and 4 even. I've not seen this new one as mentioned, but I doubt things will be that inconsistent. 

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The worst thing in this episode was that we’ve had seasons of 

Spoiler

building Cersei up as big bad and yet the whole series she has been on the periphery and her death was all over in a fairly meandering way. 

 

I get that Daenarys ultimately wants  to be popular so I guess bringing the house down on Cersei and Jamie is one of doing it. 

 

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2 minutes ago, grindmouse said:

I know the writing is shite compared to the earlier seasons. It’s basically fan-fic. But accepting that, the show is still enjoyable. And it seems like the “geek” community is enjoying a pile-on, when some shit they revere like MCU has never had writing as good as early GoT.

 

We're not disputing early GoT writing and comparing it to the MCU though are we. We're discussing the poor writing here and now. They've done themselves, the show and the fans a massive disservice in my opinion.

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It's just bad writing e.g.

 

 

They've been hinting, to be fair, for ages that Dany's lust for power/thrown keeps overshadowing her noble ideals and brings out her tyrannical or slightly murderer side.

 


 

What that became was "I've won! They've surrendered! Oh well better kill everyone! MAD QUEEN BITCHES!".

 

It's just crap.

 

What's odd is it would so easy to be do it better....they should have just had the bells not rung, and then Dany goes nuts trying to force subjugation/supplication...

 

 

 

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I thought that was bloody brilliant.

 

 

I think Daenarys anger was heavily foreshadowed. Not least with the early part of this episode where it's clear she feels betrayed by even her closest allies. She outright said at one point that she could only rule by fear, not love.

Looks like we're now set up for a battle (at least diplomatically if not physically) between the Starks and Daenarys. Arya's experience from the sacking of the city seemd pretty clear cut that she'll be looking for vengeance from that massacre.
 

 

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I just have one thing I was confused by.

 

What did Dany's army consist of? Did the north come down to fight because it looked like she had Dothraki, unsullied and grimy northern fighters? Or were they dressed in black?

 

If so, why did they attack the surrendering army? The Stark's would never attack unarmed surrendering soldiers?

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2 minutes ago, Stigweard said:

 

We're not disputing early GoT writing and comparing it to the MCU though are we. We're discussing the poor writing here and now. They've done themselves, the show and the fans a massive disservice in my opinion.

 

They very clearly have given up compared to the earlier seasons because they are busy with the Star Wars movie, but ultimately this all falls on GRRM's head.

 

 

 

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Is this ending how I wanted it to? Nope! Is it living up to two years of hype?  Not really!

 

But is it... The worst thing I have ever seen! Laughable. Pathetic.

 

Nah, its still good television, it just could have been great.

 

Spoiler

I for one cannot wait for Daenerys redemption arc in the next episode, I recon they can squeeze it in. :D

 

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Spoiler

Danny clearly doesn’t trust Tyrion anymore. He went on and on about the bells and when she heard them she considered it and came to the conclusion “fuck it, don’t believe him”. 

 

I thought she was going off to nuke Cersei in the keep rather than burning up all the plebs though.

 

What was up with the wildfire though? I saw the green explosions a few times and was expecting some kinda gotcha! moment but it seems some people just had wildfire knocking around in their houses  

 

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At least we know who will be sitting on the iron throne now.

 

Next ep will be tying up maybe 3 seasons worth of plot in 60 minutes.

 

Hopefully that prick Grey Worm gets Merc'd. Always fucking hated the prick and his girl who demanded everyone burns. Fuck em.

 

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3 minutes ago, Jonny5 said:
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Danny clearly doesn’t trust Tyrion anymore. He went on and on about the bells and when she heard them she considered it and came to the conclusion “fuck it, don’t believe him”. 

 

I thought she was going off to nuke Cersei in the keep rather than burning up all the plebs though.

  

What was up with the wildfire though? I saw the green explosions a few times and was expecting some kinda gotcha! moment but it seems some people just had wildfire knocking around in their houses  

  

 

Spoiler

I took it more as Dany intentionally killing innocents after the surrender as a lesson in fear for the rest of Westeros but the dumb fucker has just shot herself in the foot. If she was smart, she would have had Jon killed.

 

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Well I thought it was a lot better than previous weeks, but still had some pretty weak parts, along with some good parts.

 

Spoiler

The Tyrion/Varys stuff I enjoyed. Varys has stayed 100% true to his nature since the start, and this was reflected in this episode. At what he knew was his end he was still hoping he was wrong about Dany, but he really knew he wasn't. I hope whatever he was doing gets some payoff next week. Tyrion has gone from cocksure know all to wanting to believe in people and it's destroyed his ability to make super smart decisions. I really like that part of it, started when he met Jon Snow way back when and his story arc is the only one that hasn't seemed forced.

 

Dany going mental has been foreshadowed for ever. And I thought it worked well, otherwise we were heading for a 'happily ever after ending' which would have been proper shit. And Greyworm made sense too, he was not happy with how everything was going, he knew everyone hated his people, that was set up a long time ago.

 

Bits I didn't like : Jamie and Cersei's end was just a bit lame. Scorpions being shit after being awesome. The Clegane Bros. fight was just a fan pleaser, could take it or leave it. The clumsy writing that got us to the battle part. Jon SNow being a fucking idiot all the time. He needs to step up and take some responsibility that boy. And the horse scene at the end, not sure what the hell that was all about. I was hoping that Arya would recite her list again and add Dany, and maybe Jon to it. But the writers have probably forgotten about the list she used to say every night before she went to bed (yes, I am fanficcing now, completely aware of that).

 

What pisses off the nerd in me Ignoring the fact that in the Iron Throne vision it was snow, the script said it was snow, the writers said it was snow, and now it looks like it'll be retconned to ash. But they can get away with that, so why not. They changed the plans at some point. But where the hell is this proper Winter everyone kept going on about?

 

Anyhoo, on to next week, I hope they don't mess up too badly and have some interesting twists for us!

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Would have to rewatch and check, but I’m sure they said in previous episodes that Cersei was barricaded into the Red Keep and had loads of civilians within the walls so they’d be killed if Dany just sent Drogon in to the keep and that would be bad.

 

But, Dany decided to double down and torch the entire city and this is what I’m not entirely buying.

 

Yes, they foreshadowed that she might be crazy. Yes, they set things up where the surrender of Cersei wasn’t enough after two significant deaths and she wanted blood, but it doesn’t explain why she didn’t fly to the Red Keep and torch Cersei (and all the innocents within its wall – which Ayra could have been witness to ) and instead go and burn everything and anything before eventually burning bits of the red keep (where she may or may not have killed Cersei).

 

If the answer is – she had gone totally crazy, then that is fine – but show it happening or have something happen in the battle that pushes her totally over the edge so she decides to kill them all.

 

Her troops murdering/raping and pillaging is believable as they hate the Lannister’s/Kings Landing and have put up with years of torment from the South (and there Queen is burning everything).

 

It’s not a bad conclusion at all, just felt like it needed another scene to ‘sell’ that she was as mad as the good old mad king.

 

The annoying thing is that it makes for a very potentially interesting final season of a resistance trying to take down the new big bad tyrant, but instead we have to wrap it all up in 75 minutes.

 

In theory, Jon, Davos, Tyrion, etc are screwed, because is the north/Dorne, etc going to be that bothered that Kings Landing and the Llanisters have all been torched, because the army that sacked it seemed to be enjoying themselves why would they now switch to Jon against their indestructible Queen who just won the war easily.

 

At least, no-one would have had – a building fall on her - in the who kills Cersei poll.

 

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Spoiler

All I will say that I’m a good judge of character.

 

I always knew Danny was a bad’un, even in earlier seasons when people were stanning themselves over her, she never had much of a moral compass...seeing her own brother being murdered in front of her without flintching was a sign she wasn’t all right in the head.

 

I guess it also explains Jon’s bouts of dumbassery too.

 

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4 minutes ago, Boothjan said:
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Drogon to turn on Dany and side with Jon, anyone.....?

 

 

I fully expect this. 

 

Spoiler

Next week will see Jon have to defeat Danny and end up on the throne, and the dragon will choose him over her for some reason. 

 

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