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12 minutes ago, Kevvy Metal said:

Regarding Arya 

 

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The whole point of the scene with her hiding from and evading the Walkers in the library is to set up and fore-shadow her covertly sneaking up on the NK.

 

It is an open courtyard, though.

 

The CotF created the NK to keep outsiders away, and Bran the Builder created the wall to do the same in the opposite direction, is that right? In other words, could Bran be the NK's opposite number with similar evil powers?

 

8 minutes ago, Monkeyboy said:

I think my feeling of disappointment with this episode makes me realise that, for all their hype, the big battle episodes are the least interesting parts of GoT.

 

Was it season one or two when they skipped a battle completely and just had Jaime show up captured? Does anyone care that we never saw that battle? I know I don’t care.

 

Whispering Wood, I think? And I fully agree. I've always felt that the battles are necessary for the story, rather than the other way around. If you ever rewatch the attack on Castle Black during Ygritte's bit, look out for the half-assed extras in the background.

 

Having said that, I have enjoyed the visuals of attacks involving fire, from Blackwater to the Sept to the Dothraki. And Bronn's crossbow was fun.

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The death I felt saddest about was that of my Plasma TV two years ago. A spectacular if slightly dumb episode, not a patch on the Battle of the Bastards but still good.

Spoiler

 

The unsatisfying NK/Bran stuff needs some redeeming explanation in the next episode.  

It all seems fairly predicable from here on in, so I hope they don't foreshadow whatever twists they have left as obviously as they did with Melisandre effectively spoilering Arya killing the NK. Now that Arya has killed the NK it seems unlikely that she will get to kill Cersie too. Not sure what I though of her stealth TLoU section, it was cool by itself but seemed a bit out of kilter with everything else that was going on.

Jon Snow was a bit useless in this episode, I wonder if the death of Friendzone will cause ructions between he and Dany.

 

 

 

 

 

 

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1 hour ago, Timmo said:
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Did Gilly survive? Because if she did she has the most plot armour in the history of television. 5 full minutes under a zombie.

 

 

Spoiler

Yes. I think we see her at the end when the survivors are gathered in the crypt and the camera pulls back. She's stood on the right hand side as we look at it, with her son.

 

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Spoiler

 

I’d just like to say, where the fuck were the knights of the vale then? Dammit I want to see my heavy cavalry charge!

Maybe they did take my advice and circled round the rear! But got lost and are currently awol, wandering around the snowy tundra. Poor sods.

 

 

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About the darkness: I didn't mind the episode being lit so darkly in general, but the banding on my copy was pretty ugly. Hopefully the episode will look better on blu-ray, but some scenes looked terrible with a few pixallated shades of deep grey dancing around on the screen.

 

About the episode:

 

 

I agree with all the criticisms, but I was still blown away. It was so much more apocalyptic than I was expecting, partly because of the sense of dread, and partly because of the freezing fog of war that the white walkers summoned.

But yes, the criticisms hold up. Terrible battle tactics: send the Dothraki to ride out into pitch darkness, only use the trebuchets once, dragonfire the wights in random sprays in the middle rather than at the front line. It was funny that they had to scramble to light the trench without dragons because the fog of war rendered Jon and Dany useless... but then when the trenches were lit, Jon was just sat there parked on his dragon a few feet away.

It's also true that battle participants like Sam, Brienne and Jaime were swamped on the verge of being torn apart, then the editing leaves them in that state for almost an hour, making it unbelievable that they are still alive when we return to them. It's also true that the dragon battles took place in such low visibility that it was hard to tell what was happening -- whose dragon was whose. I had no idea how many dragons were still alive by the end... just one? Apparently the other one survived, and apparently Ghost survived too. Huh.

Both Lyanna Mormont and Theon decide to heroically rush an enemy that will definitely kill them.

Crypt zombies were inevitable, but pretty lame. If they had been a major devastating part of the plot ("Everyone in the crypts got killed!") it would be admirable, but the crypt zombies were just used as cheap extra peril. They shouldn't have bothered.

I realise now that Bran was probably warging into crows to draw the attention of the Night King, but at the time I just thought Bran zoned out for no good reason like a dick.

 

 

 

I hope if there's a big battle at King's Landing they do it in the daytime.

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General thoughts on the episode 

 

Spoiler

Yeah there was some flaws and lighting issues and too much plot armour etc but Arya's badass ninja takedown made all that irrelevant. 

 

Poor Theon though, never learnt to carry a small sidearm dagger like Arya and Lady Mormont (RIP :()

 

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I did wonder whether Arya was going to be in a tree above Theon for a moment it looked like maybe he was going to spot something above him as he lay dying.

 

I would have liked the NK's mates to have stayed alive, kill the risen dead sure, but their purpose through the entire series has basically been to pass the NK spears? 

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E3 question:

 

 

The ice dragon's still alive, right? Or at least an ice dragon. Because on the thought that there must be more to Bran's story than that, I suppose he could be the main baddie in a twist and go ham with his dragon at King's Landing. Cersei might not even be the prime villain if he and/or Dany step up. The current lot against Cersei is surely too vanilla, but we'll see.


Any heel turn from Dany's gonna be a harder sell after her reaction to Friendzone's death, though. And Bran can barely muster the enthusiasm for RCs, never mind world domination.

 

1 hour ago, Straps said:

I had major problems with the darkness levels watching on a pirate stream. So I had a think and I realised it deserved to be watched in higher detail so I did the decent thing and torrented it.

 

I watched it with MPC and kept hitting Space to see who I was looking at.

 

1 hour ago, gizmo1990 said:
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I’d just like to say, where the fuck were the knights of the vale then? Dammit I want to see my heavy cavalry charge!

Maybe they did take my advice and circled round the rear! But got lost and are currently awol, wandering around the snowy tundra. Poor sods.

 

 

Aren't they down to that...

 

 

Fat QC type? With his knack for talking a good game and then missing the action when he's on that long road.

 

1 hour ago, SqueakyG said:

About the episode:

 

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Both Lyanna Mormont and Theon decide to heroically rush an enemy that will definitely kill them.

Crypt zombies were inevitable, but pretty lame. If they had been a major devastating part of the plot ("Everyone in the crypts got killed!") it would be admirable, but the crypt zombies were just used as cheap extra peril. They shouldn't have bothered.

 

 

Agree entirely on the latter, but I'll defend the former (one of the few things I will)...

 

Lyanna was in command of the first line of defence in the courtyard, so getting herself killed was her duty, because to try and save herself instead would've been a failure to serve. She was the most heroic of all.

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46 minutes ago, Escaped said:

E3 question:

 

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The ice dragon's still alive, right? Or at least an ice dragon. Because on the thought that there must be more to Bran's story than that, I suppose he could be the main baddie in a twist and go ham with his dragon at King's Landing. Cersei might not even be the prime villain if he and/or Dany step up. The current lot against Cersei is surely too vanilla, but we'll see.


Any heel turn from Dany's gonna be a harder sell after her reaction to Friendzone's death, though. And Bran can barely muster the enthusiasm for RCs, never mind world domination.

 

 

Spoiler

Viserion the undead dragon is dead. Drogon and Rhaegal are alive. Rhaegal had his wing ripped.  

 

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5 hours ago, Shoes said:
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Gutted Dany didn't die. Fucksake.

 

 

 

She was saved by having the zombies which disappear as soon as the camera cuts away running at her instead of the ultra-efficient stabby ones, like the tightly-packed group of 5 at the top here which sprint into frame just before the cut while 3 others are running at Jorah.


vlcsnap-2019-04-29-21h42m12s815.thumb.png.da87b2539b63a755518182d7bb3a30a2.png

 

 

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My actual thoughts on the episode and the show as a whole. I’m about to watch the episode again.

Pretty sure we don’t need to spoiler but I’ll do it just in case. 

 

Spoiler

The storyline of the show, in my opinion, has some huge fucking issues. I can’t even say it’s just because it’s not following the books, because the books have some fucking ridiculous story and writing as well.

 

I don’t rate the GoT writers at all. I think anything that’s turned out excellent was given to them by the source material whilst it was still top notch.

I’ve still largely enjoyed the show because the subject matter is cool and some of the actors and actresses have been extremely good (and, tbh, really fucking carried the show at a lot of points).

 

I want to see how it ends, but frankly it reeks of multiple, complicated plots jettisoned so far out into fucking space, that although they’re thrilling and exciting to watch unfold and speculate how they’ll be resolved, there’s no fucking knitting them back together. Not on a million years.

 

For me, a story needs to blossom out from a single point, but then come back together again. Like a massive bloated diamond or something.

When this can’t be done, and you’re left with gaping plot holes and unreasonable character behaviours just to suit the next chapter of narrative, then the story as a whole loses density and immersion.

 

That is where a lot of GoT storylines are in my mind. I can forgive inexperienced child actors, but not the muddled actions they’re asked to do. Arya fucking scrapes by in my eyes, but I largely dislike what’s been written for her.

 

Bran is....well, we’re supposed to think he’s something big. But when it was time to get his big Three-Eyed cock out at the climax of the main storyline, all we got was a deflated  worm that that would inspire no one.

 

I don’t know what the fuck they’ve done to Jon. It’s almost as if they’ve gotten the balance of him, Dany and Sansa utterly wrong. Add in Tyrion, Jaime and Varys to the same scenes, and even Jorah and Davos, and you’ve just got these huge characters lumped together fighting for the chills and thrills.

It’s just not working for me, especially as some of the actors have so much more presence as their characters have the more believable and understandable arcs.

 

 

But because I’ve accepted all of this and have had my expectations lowered dramatically for a few series, I was really able to enjoy what was good about this episode. I’m beyond looking for reason in what was wrong, because again, I don’t think the writers are good at all. It’s a miracle when anything works these days.

 

 

So what was good was the fucking direction, cinematography and music. You could have enjoyed this as a stand alone piece of TV even if you’d never watched a single other episode or knew a single character. 

 

Some of the shots were just head and shoulders above regular television. Above Hardhome. Above the Sept of Baelor. Miguel really outdid himself. 

The field lit on fire by Drogon with Tormund screaming in the foreground. The dragons illuminating the descending frost from the tree lines. Both of them so realistically and gracefully aloft above the clouds. That looked spectacular, I’m sorry.

I thought the CGI was really excellent, (and I’ve disliked a lot of it), but the light reflecting off their bodies was really good. I loved the close ups of their frills, details and colours you could really see when they focused on Jon or Dany. They really did come across as hulking beasts.

Even smaller scenes like the wight jumping for Melisandre as she lit the trench. So many moments were worthy of a still shot. I’d actually really enjoy flicking through about thirty or so from that episode. Hence why I’m watching it again.

 

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@NexivRed Yeah, for some reason I thought that...

 

Drogon or Rhaegal were reanimated as an ice dragon after dying, but then since Viserion died in front of Jon when the NK bought it, so would they had they turned. Dunno, then.

 

Why did...

 

Theon die?



 

Because he chose the wrong Ironside

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Spoiler

 

I don't think that Jon can get his dragon to make fire, pretty sure we've not seen him do that.

 

I love Arya to bits, mostly because of the unmentionables and how she is in them. But I do like Massie Williams too (am totally biased tho). So was all "Yes Arya!" Several times last night. 

 

Did anyone see Gendry? :( Hope he survived, think he'd be a good king.

 

While I'm glad Sam survived, I didn't like the way he did, although Arya did prove if you stay very quiet then the dead couldn't sense you. I also don't mind the other mains surviving, but would have preferred to see a few more groups surviving as others have said - it did seem like they'd all been fighting their own personal gang of dead for ages. 

 

Theon was great and has had one of the best stories of all the main characters, from day one arrogance, to over confidence, to humiliation, to well earned pride. Think I'd have preferred to see him go down like Boromir though, finally just overwhelmed.

 

I'm kind of glad that Sansa chickened out, when the dead rose in the crypts. She tries to act the hard arse, but she's not really, Arya is the tough one, not her. They compliment each other well. Same with Tyrion and their "we're actually going to die?" Scene was very touching.

 

I think they built up the night king as a character too much, it was a fitting end but a bit fudged.


 

All in all a good episode and now we up the tension even more, going in to the last few hours of the show.

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So whoever was using the ISF calibrated LG C8 OLED - was that Sky or NowTV or a filthy pirate version?

 

cos on my non-calibrated Panasonic OLED in a dark room, using sky, it was absolutely fine.

 

also; I quite like the stealth Arya bit. Gave a nice change of pace in spite of the obvious sound insulation issues. Were they walkers in there? Thought they were just run of the mill braaaains zombies. And I even forgive the eternal corridors of winterfell. Have to allow a bit of poetic license.

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6 minutes ago, choddo said:

 

also; I quite like the stealth Arya bit. Gave a nice change of pace in spite of the obvious sound insulation issues. Were they walkers in there? Thought they were just run of the mill braaaains zombies. And I even forgive the eternal corridors of winterfell. Have to allow a bit of poetic license.

Ask yourself though if the first four seasons had been a series of poor man’s video game scenarios re-enacted would you have stuck with it?

I can’t point to a single aspect of this episode that I.could use to sell the show to someone who has so far refused to watch it

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Apologies everyone...

 

I didn’t actually write a book spoiler - I just meant that’s not how it was written in a really clumsy way which, in hindsight, looks as though it’s a massive book spoiler but it’s not. Sorry!

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13 minutes ago, linkster said:

Ask yourself though if the first four seasons had been a series of poor man’s video game scenarios re-enacted would you have stuck with it?

I can’t point to a single aspect of this episode that I.could use to sell the show to someone who has so far refused to watch it

 

Because three episodes from the end is a great time to change the show to try to attract a bigger audience.

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