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Game of Thrones - No Book Chat. NONE. The Books don't exist.

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1 minute ago, BlinkyBear said:

 

 

I cannot fathom people who are essentially complaining that the episode was ruined because we didn't get a long explanation about some fucking chains. 

Absolutely mental. 

 

Other things to consider: where did Danny get her new coat from? What is it made of? Did she just have a winter coat lying around or have one made really quickly when the raven arrived?

Where does all this wine come from? I've never seen a grape in the show, so where does all the wine come from? Do different regions produce their own variation? Do they have vintages? Why do they only drink red wine?

How do they build the big castles? I haven't seen a quarry where stone is being mined so how do they make the castles? 

 

I could go on, but fuck that noise. 

 

Those things don't require an explanation they are just part of the world at large and yes different regions do have different wines with Dornish wine being the best.

 

I must admit I did wonder about the chains whilst watching but not enough to diminish my enjoyment but it's a valid point.

 

Danerys obviously just has a fabulous wardrobe in that castle too.

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5 minutes ago, BlinkyBear said:

 

Other things to consider: where did Danny get her new coat from? What is it made of? Did she just have a winter coat lying around or have one made really quickly when the raven arrived?

Where does all this wine come from? I've never seen a grape in the show, so where does all the wine come from? Do different regions produce their own variation? Do they have vintages? Why do they only drink red wine?

 

 

<_<

 

Yes, because a vast medieval-style civilisation being able to make wine is exactly the same as absolutely gargantuan chains - essential to a plot-point happening no less - appearing out of nowhere in a snowy wilderness.

 

It's just bad writing. If they'd briefly shown some of the army dragging the chains earlier in the episode, they would have got away with it. The problem is really that the NK pulled them out of his magic pocket. It's a basic writing trick to foreshadow this kind of thing.

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Just now, abc said:

 

<_<

 

Yes, because a vast medieval-style civilisation having wine is exactly the same as absolutely gargantuan chains - essential to a plot-point happening no less - appearing out of nowhere in a snowy wilderness.

 

 

Fuck me. 

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15 minutes ago, abc said:

 

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I presume the javelins aren't specifically made for that purpose. But anyway, I can visualise him making the javelins using ice/snow and imbibing him with his magic (ironically, given the arguments here, this is one thing I can accept "cos magic"). However, the chains would require huge forges (and the presence of towns) and a team of metalworking experts. And anyway, those chains were gargantuan - this wasn't "just" the chains you'd need to operate a castle drawbridge.

 

 

Spoiler

Were they not also made from ice magic?

 

 

 

 

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People say this kind of thing to defend science fiction or fantasy all the time. "Yeah, like dragons are realistic".  Anything goes.

 

So if Jon Snow's head flew off, flew round the moon, landed back on his shoulders and he carried on talking, and no explanation or comment was ever offered, then that would be fine because dragons.

 

Things still have to make sense. We may disagree on which things do or don't make sense, but this being a fantasy show doesn't come into it.

 

 

Edit: oops, the same point has been made upthread.

 

Where did I say that? Where did I say that nothing has to make sense because dragons are also fantasy? Of course things have to make sense, but in a fantasy not everything has to have an explanation and not everything has to be explained to the viewer.

 

The amount of nit picking, which can be applied to any fantasy and completely make it look ridiculous, is off the scale here. People immediately think that because something doesn't make sense to them it has to be wrong and stupid, even though it's just an opinion.

 

There are serious plot threads that haven't been handled well and some plot devices that are just too convenient, there is truth to that. But asking how the chains can be manufactured in a medieval setting like the north or why a character said one line instead of another and calling the creators stupid because, you know, rll could write a much better show in a couple of posts -it's just internet at its best. [emoji14]

 

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4 minutes ago, BlinkyBear said:

 

They really are. Both in this thread people are moaning about the quality of the episode, quoting the chains thing as an issue and there are dozens of people online moaning about it. 

 

It was mentioned by several people as a stupid element of the show that they disliked (among many points), then people challenged them saying "it's OK because dragons", and hence a back-and-forth happened. The people bothered by the chains are not saying it ruined the episode - they have just been drawn into wider discussions like whether or not anything goes because it's a fantasy show, using examples like the chains, or the silly uncle rescue incident, or the icy plunge survival incident.

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3 minutes ago, Fletch said:

 

Those things don't require an explanation they are just part of the world at large and yes different regions do have different wines with Dornish wine being the best.

 

I must admit I did wonder about the chains whilst watching but not enough to diminish my enjoyment but it's a valid point.

 

Danerys obviously just has a fabulous wardrobe in that castle too.

 

Chains=part of the world at large. 

 

 

Personally, I have no desire to either be given an explanation for the existence for every prop or element of mise-en-scene in the series or to have every element foreshadowed. 

 

If you do that's great but I imagine watching anything must be an entirely exhausting and joyless exercise. 

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25 minutes ago, Wickedkitten said:

I'm convinced a lot of people all over the net must be multitasking on their phones or something whilst watching the episodes because there are a lot of people confused about where the extra people come from, but you could see them ready to walk out behind The Magnificent Seven when they left Eastwatch in the last episode, and they were pretty much there from the very beginning of this one

 

UxleCWN.jpg

 

It wasn't so much 'where they came from', it was more that they were only on screen properly when they were being murdered. They existed solely to give a false sense of peril. It's just so lazy and shit.

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5 minutes ago, Talk Show Host said:

Where did I say that? Where did I say that nothing has to make sense because dragons are also fantasy? Of course things have to make sense, but in a fantasy not everything has to have an explanation and not everything has to be explained to the viewer.

The amount of nit picking, which can be applied to any fantasy and completely make it look ridiculous, is off the scale here. People immediately think that because something doesn't make sense to them it has to be wrong and stupid, even though it's just an opinion.

There are serious plot threads that haven't been handled well and some plot devices that are just too convenient, there is truth to that. But asking how the chains can be manufactured in a medieval setting like the north or why a character said one line instead of another and calling the creators stupid because, you know, rll could write a much better show in a couple of posts is just internet at its best. emoji14.png

 

But it's not "nit-picking" if it took me out of the show when I was watching it. It may not have done so for you - fair enough - but if it did for me, why not mention it, and explain why? Another week, you might find something takes you out of the show, and it may not bother me.

 

Also, what's wrong with nit-picking such things? You don't have to engage at length about such detail if you're only interested in the bigger picture stuff.

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Just now, BlinkyBear said:

 

Chains=part of the world at large. 

 

 

Personally, I have no desire to either be given an explanation for the existence for every prop or element of mise-en-scene in the series or to have every element foreshadowed. 

 

If you do that's great but I imagine watching anything must be an entirely exhausting and joyless exercise. 

 

I get what you mean but they were a very handy thing to have lying around but it doesn't spoil my enjoyment in any way but people enjoy dissecting these things.

 

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Why are people nitpicking anything at all that's not the bit where variously a blacksmith, ravens, and then dragons travel what must be something like a combined 5000 mile round trip in what was portrayed as a few hours?

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3 minutes ago, Simply Marvellous said:

 

It wasn't so much 'where the came from', it was more that they were only on screen properly when they we being murdered. They existed solely to give a false sense of peril. It's just so lazy and shit

 

Edit: also they weren't they when they were walking out in the final shot of the previous episode

 

They were, you can see one of them right to the left and behind the Hound

 

Dm8wnVt.png

 

UJURln0.png

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6 minutes ago, abc said:

 

But it's not "nit-picking" if it took me out of the show when I was watching it. It may not have done so for you - fair enough - but if it did for me, why not mention it, and explain why? Another week, you might find something takes you out of the show, and it may not bother me.

 

There are many things that take me out of the show all these years. I am objecting to the incredible backlash and calling the creators stupid and that the show now is just shit by all the ''writers'' here who, by the looks of it, could write a better show in a couple of posts but life just landed them into working as accountants or something. :D

 

 

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The whole "x is this week's y" is a perfect example of this. Some people feel let down by some of the hand wavy elements every week. I agree 100% that, in isolation, the argument about the chains seems stupid, but so does the raven argument in isolation, or a single example of fast travel, or kidnapping a skeleton.

 

But start combining all of those elements together and you get a trend. So yeah chains might be this week's whatever. But the point is there's something every week which translates into a season. That's what people have a problem with.

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3 minutes ago, Mr Cochese said:

Why are people nitpicking anything at all that's not the bit where variously a blacksmith, ravens, and then dragons travel what must be something like a combined 5000 mile round trip in what was portrayed as a few hours?

 

I think most people agree on that one. It's relatively minor things like the chains that draw the most discussion, because they are regarded by some as unimportant, so we end up with 1000 posts about whether they are important or not. This explains the "disagreement of the week" throughout this thread.

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1 minute ago, Fletch said:

 

I get what you mean but they were a very handy thing to have lying around but it doesn't spoil my enjoyment in any way but people enjoy dissecting these things.

 

 

Part of the problem is that it doesn't feel like an enjoyable exercise at all to "dissect " things in this manner. It's like those horrendous YouTube channels that decry the quality of a film because a glass moved from one shot to the next. Joyless, proto-analysis that only succeeds on a personal and innane level. 

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Just now, Talk Show Host said:

 

There are many things that take me out of the show all these years. I am objecting to the incredible backlash and calling the creators stupid and that the show now is just shit by all the ''writers'' here who, by the looks of it, could write a better show in a couple of posts but life just landed them into the life of accountant. :D

 

 

 

For my part, I didn't say the show is shit. I said certain elements were shit, and exhibited terrible writing, which is a very different thing.

 

As for your "don't criticise something if you don't do it for a living". What else are people meant to say? "I didn't like it"? They are going to provide a reason, and if they feel that reason is the writing, then that's what they are going to say. Are they allowed to praise good writing?

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1 minute ago, BlinkyBear said:

 

Part of the problem is that it doesn't feel like an enjoyable exercise at all to "dissect " things in this manner. It's like those horrendous YouTube channels that decry the quality of a film because a glass moved from one shot to the next. Joyless, proto-analysis that only succeeds on a personal and innane level. 

 

The chains maybe but these weren't nitpicking errors with the script. There was a lot of glaringly bad writing and forced story-telling in order to make x and y happen. It affected my enjoyment as a result.

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4 minutes ago, BlinkyBear said:

 

Part of the problem is that it doesn't feel like an enjoyable exercise at all to "dissect " things in this manner. It's like those horrendous YouTube channels that decry the quality of a film because a glass moved from one shot to the next. Joyless, proto-analysis that only succeeds on a personal and innane level. 

 

That's fine - we all watch things in different ways. Some people, however, do like talking about that kind of stuff. Feel free to ignore me, then you won't see my criticisms of things you're not bothered by. There's no point in us each saying "you shouldn't be making posts like this".

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I'm nostalgic for when people were moaning about Arya running full pelt on a stabbed up stomach.

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2 hours ago, Talk Show Host said:

Man, this thread can get depressing. :lol: 

 

Criticizing some major things I understand, but trying to pick holes in every little thing in a fantasy show... Damn.

 

 

 

Well it's because people give a shit about this show. It's changed; I think even you said a few pages back it's not the same show as it was before. There'll be reasons why - some people will not like those reasons. 

 

 

1 hour ago, Camel said:

So because it's a fantasy show, anything goes?  Gendry might turn into a giant marzipan shoe in the next episode* and that will be fine because hey, it's a fantasy show?  Also, discussing the ins and outs of a TV show is very likely to be something that happens in a thread about a TV show.

 

Bahahahaha :lol:

 

 

1 hour ago, jonamok said:

Yep, for all of these beefs, most of us can suggest a better, more thematic, more logical way to get the same result than the show's bloody writing team.

 

The fact we never needed these conversations before is pretty telling of how far we've fallen in terms of logical consistency, fantasy land or not.

 

Exactly. 

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The chains argument, lol

 

Anyway, I think this episode and some of the other epic ones suffer a lot from the series being ahead of the books. You can be sure that Martin would have had the whole expedition make a bit more sense, for example there would probably be some backstory to the red-shirts, if they were even there at all. The travelling stuff at first seemed a bit silly but I got the impression they spent almost two days there stuck on the island. They weren't that far from Eastwatch, the blizzard slowed them down before, and so it was quick for Gendry to get back (I mean probably took him like half a day or whatever). Raven is fast, dragons are fast. 

 

Why do people want the dragon to rise up from the lake by itself? The white walkers gotta touch them to make them undead anyway. 

 

Yes if you pull the episode apart it has flaws but I still really enjoyed it and although I found the redshirts etc a bit stupid when I was watching, I really didn't give a damn because I was excited and wanted to know what was gonna happen.

 

 

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11 minutes ago, Talk Show Host said:

 

There are many things that take me out of the show all these years. I am objecting to the incredible backlash and calling the creators stupid and that the show now is just shit by all the ''writers'' here who, by the looks of it, could write a better show in a couple of posts but life just landed them into working as accountants or something. :D

 

 

 

Oooh, no, don't do that. While I agree that some of the nit-picking is unnecessary/a bit anal (and some really isn't), the 'could write/sing/play/paint it yourself better then, could you?' is such spurious reasoning that it makes my teeth hurt. 

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Just now, Davros sock drawer said:

Just for balance, I did enjoy the stuff between Arya and Sansa. 

 

Get out.

 

I refuse to accept that anyone could have enjoyed the '1 arrow' monologue.

 

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Yes. I think it's safe to say 99% of us complaining about parts still enjoy each episode. Frustration brings out the questions. 

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Just now, Steely said:

 

Get out.

 

 

Literally almost posted the same thing but thought it was too mean :lol: 

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Although I am still loving the show, it really worries me that there's only one more season with such a short number of episodes. It's too late to do anything about it now but it could have really used another season or more episodes to flesh out more of the characters and story. We can forsee the final season just being epic event after epic event, the plot hurtling along covering the major bases with very little time for the twisty schemes and character moments that add so much to the series.

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