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The Spoiler-Filled Game of Thrones Book Readers Thread (Seriously Spoilers)

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Another cool thing from the latest ep: a bit of Tywin backstory in the form of a hint towards his father's disgrace that we learn about through Cersei in A Dance with Dragons. I hope the writers take more opportunities like this to flesh characters out when they can because there's so much in the books that can't make it to the screen.

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Aye then they can start off season four with a close shot of grey wind's eyes with a slow pan out to his head sewed on Rob's neck.

Yes!

massive spoilers book 3

I really hope they end S3 with the RW. One moment everyone's laughing and having a feast, with suspicious glances between Boltons and Freys, then a bard starts playing the Rains of Castamere. More exchanged glanced between Boltons and Freys. Roose and Lord Frey look at each other. Suddenly everything goes into slow-mo and all audio fades out. Robb looks down, and sees a crossbow bolt sticking out of his chest, then the massacre begins in earnest as

is played. People die, people cry, we get to see the Smalljon flip over a table to protect his dying King from more crossbow bolts while Greatjon Umber kills three people and bites the ear off another while Catelyn Stark's throat is slit. Grey Wind gets released from his cage and tears into some Freys before being overwhelmed. We see the Hound dragging a crying hysterical Arya away, outside The Twins. The season ends with a slow vertical zoom out from Robb's lifeless eyes to reveal the entire hall full of corpses as the music comes to an end.

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Yes!

massive spoilers book 3

I really hope they end S3 with the RW. One moment everyone's laughing and having a feast, with suspicious glances between Boltons and Freys, then a bard starts playing the Rains of Castamere. More exchanged glanced between Boltons and Freys. Roose and Lord Frey look at each other. Suddenly everything goes into slow-mo and all audio fades out. Robb looks down, and sees a crossbow bolt sticking out of his chest, then the massacre begins in earnest as

is played. People die, people cry, we get to see the Smalljon flip over a table to protect his dying King from more crossbow bolts while Greatjon Umber kills three people and bites the ear off another while Catelyn Stark's throat is slit. Grey Wind gets released from his cage and tears into some Freys before being overwhelmed. We see the Hound dragging a crying hysterical Arya away, outside The Twins. The season ends with a slow vertical zoom out from Robb's lifeless eyes to reveal the entire hall full of corpses as the music comes to an end.

The way you describe it sounds amazing.

The only thing is, if that's the final shot of the season, won't most people kind of think the whole story's over?

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IIRC, Storm of Swords ends with (MASSIVE SPOLIERS)

the appearance of Zombie Catelyn in the Riverlands; and Stannis' arrival at the Wall,

which should set up the story for the next season pretty well.

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If anything this is just making it seem more and more apparent that Tywin might not be the father of the incest twins.

Are you talking about the Tyrion is secretely a Targ theory?

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I don't think it makes sense from a narrative POV that the incest twins are secret Targaryens. It doesn't really affect the plot. Sure, it would explain why Cersei is a fucking nut (especially in FFC), but if anyone was a secret Targaryen it would make more sense for Tyrion since he's on his way to hang out with dragons.

This week's episode was very interesting. Bran and company clearly not hanging out in the Winterfell crypts, then. I was expecting the Reeds to show up and save them from the pursuing Ironmen.

The Qarth storyline is getting a bit bizarre.

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I don't think it makes sense from a narrative POV that the incest twins are secret Targaryens. It doesn't really affect the plot. Sure, it would explain why Cersei is a fucking nut (especially in FFC), but if anyone was a secret Targaryen it would make more sense for Tyrion since he's on his way to hang out with dragons.

This week's episode was very interesting. Bran and company clearly not hanging out in the Winterfell crypts, then. I was expecting the Reeds to show up and save them from the pursuing Ironmen.

The Qarth storyline is getting a bit bizarre.

There is absolutely nothing at all to suggest that Tyrion is a secret anything though. It does make sense from the narrative if you look at how Jaime became the youngest Kingsguard in addition to him killing his own father and meeting up with his auntie basically if it turns out that Jon and Jamie are the other two heads of the dragon and Tyrion serves as Hand.

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Bit slower after last week's.

I love Ygritte, but I thought it was a bit much to have three different scenes where she was basically saying the same thing over and over. At least we got the catchphrase.

Arya and Tywin's scenes are always awesome, but I'm wondering where their scenes are going. If they follow the books, Tywin's going to lose Harrenhal to Roose Bolton soon, and Arya should have no reason to ever encounter the man again (she never encountered him in the books at all!) So why spend all the time building a connection between them? I can only hope it's so that the vengeance is sweeter when Arya is integral in letting Bolton take Harrenhal. But it looks like Arya is befriending Tywin genuinely -- or at the very least, she doesn't appear to be filled with hate and vengeance, and she's not saying her nightly "prayer". Where are the writers going with this?

I can't remember what the fuck happened at Qarth in the book (my imagination gave up and it passed as a sandy blur), but at least the TV version is providing some excitement. I like the TV Pyat Pree. He took the dragons because he wants Dany to have a mindfuck experience at his scary magic castle!

Theon. I don't suppose any of the unspoiled TV viewers are convinced for a second that those burned bodies are Bran and Rickon. It's not how TV works -- you just don't get off-screen deaths for characters like Bran on TV. But in the book it was more acceptable to believe Bran and Rickon may have been killed off the page, and it was a tough few chapters waiting to see if Theon really had killed them (GRRM is so evil, it was a 50/50 chance!). The TV show changed it from heads-on-spikes to charred corpses -- I guess heads-on-spikes would give the game away for TV viewers too easily.

They're making Cersei a lot softer, aren't they? She's downright sane in the TV show. Openly and calmly talking about her incest to Tyrion, openly and calmly admitting what a monster Joffrey is.

I'm rather enjoying how much season 2 is deviating from the books. It keeps things interesting.

Unfortunately I was stung by two versions of the download that unRAR'd into password-protected ZIPs. Bastards!

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Dany goes to the House of the Undying and Pyat Pree gives her 90 seconds in the Aztec Zone to solve a sliding tile puzzle to get her dragons back next week.

I don't remember if they had much build up to the Karstarks throwing their lot in with Team Bolton in the book.

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I definitely recall Karstark's son getting offed one way or another (maybe he was a hostage of the Lannisters and they killed him/ them, or Jaime killed them in battle or something), and Robb refusing to execute Jaime for it, making Karstark unhappy.

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Unfortunately I was stung by two versions of the download that unRAR'd into password-protected ZIPs. Bastards!

Why would you download a rar? That's always a bad sign.

Fuck all happened in Qarth in the books from what I remember other than Dany getting bored and going to the temple of the undying because there wasn't anything better to do.

Yeah, Xaro is kind of in competition with the warlocks in the book for Dany's attention. Dany goes to the House of the Undying with Drogon (I think), sees a bunch of kooky visions, burns the place down when the Undying try to steal the dragon, then later goes to the docks to see about a ship and is saved from assassination by Arstan Whitebeard and Strong Belwas. The book ends with her heading out to sea on the ship Illyrio sends her.

I definitely recall Karstark's son getting offed one way or another (maybe he was a hostage of the Lannisters and they killed him/ them, or Jaime killed them in battle or something), and Robb refusing to execute Jaime for it, making Karstark unhappy.

I'm rereading A Game of Thrones at the moment. Torrhen Karstark (who was the jailor offed in this episode) along with his brother were killed protecting Robb from Jaime Lannister during the Battle of the Whispering Wood when Jaime was captured.

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Isn't all the Dario stuff in Qarth? I loved that sleazy mo-fo.

No, Daario appears about halfway through Storm of Swords, after Dany destroys the slavers of Astapor.

heh, go check the non book reading heathen thread

Another thing is, in the books, Jojen has a 'green dream' where Bran and Rickon are dead, which makes it seem like more of a possibility. My first thought when reading that was that the wolves were going to be killed by the Ironborn. I remember being confused when reading the bit where Reek tells Theon he 'knows' where the boys have gone, pointing at something in his bag. I managed to work out what that was about and guessed they weren't really dead before it was finally revealed, but it was a close thing. You never know with Gurm. He breaks the rules.

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+ Good episode full of great and hilarious moments

+ Have made Qarth much more exciting

+ Tywin/Arya interaction

+ Brienne is coming into her own

+ Alfie Allen is a great Theon, superb

+ Tyrion and Cersei interaction is great

- Bran and Rickon not hiding in the Stark crypts like they did in book (can deal with this)

- Where is the Bastard of the Dreadfort? (can somewhat deal with it)

- Jaime killing his cousin, completely OOC (can barely deal with it)

You win some, you lose some

They've made Cersei and Tywin a LOT more likeable than they were in the books, which confuses me. In the books Cersei was the character I loved to hate, and I saw Tywin as a cold merciless motherfucker who I couldn't forgive for his treatment of Tyrion and his hand in the RW. In TV series Cersei is less of a crazy psycho bitch and seems to realise that Joff is an insane sadistic motherfucker who should have been aborted; and Tywin is an awesome badass. Damn you HBO, you're supposed to make me hate them! :(

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I'm so slow I've only just realised that Jon Snow may be named after Rhaegar's BFF Griff Tannen.

When I read a ADWD it was interesting the characters that I started imagining as looking like their series versions and those who remained as they always had in my head. Tyrion is Dinklage now but I didn't see Cersei as Headey once.

If you haven't already, be sure to check out the one preview chapter for WoW that GRRM has released. Nothing particularly exciting (it was cut from ADWD).

http://www.georgerrm.../if-sample.html

Don't worry by the time the book is actually released the heat death of the universe will have occured you'll have forgotten.

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Jon snow - gurm has never stated who the mother is - potential targ blood?

I guess Jamie killing his cousin replaces the ones killed when held at river run?

And Jamie killing karstark sets up that arc as the sons didn't die in the battle.

I kind of wished arya had knifed Tywyn when she had chance. Though their scenes are amazingly good.

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I like the interaction between Tywin and Arya, especially when he revealed he'd worked out she obviously wasn't a peasant.

But it doesn't quite *work* because all the portentous knife wielding doesn't make sense when she could just ask Jaqen to kill him. In fact, wouldn't that have almost made more sense than Armory Lorch? (!)

Absolutely in love with Ygritte, the filthy cow.

She's hot but appears to be younger than Jon Snow, or at least the same age. She's definitely much older in the books? Isn't Jon supposed to be 16 or 17?

Also: Jaimie killing his cousin in cold blood is completely out of character. After he becomes a POV character in the books you realise that even his prior to having hand chopped off behaviour had a logic to it and he wasn't supposed to be as sadistic as you initially think he is?

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They've made Cersei and Tywin a LOT more likeable than they were in the books, which confuses me. In the books Cersei was the character I loved to hate, and I saw Tywin as a cold merciless motherfucker who I couldn't forgive for his treatment of Tyrion and his hand in the RW. In TV series Cersei is less of a crazy psycho bitch and seems to realise that Joff is an insane sadistic motherfucker who should have been aborted; and Tywin is an awesome badass. Damn you HBO, you're supposed to make me hate them! :(

I really like how they make characters like Cersei and Tywin a lot less one-dimensional then they are in the books. Not just that, they are also trimming a lot of fat, often for the better (Dany's arc in particular). This bodes well for future seasons, as the last few books really became way too bloated for their own good.

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I'm not really feeling the Jon/Ygritte thing at the moment mainly because how are they going to manage the bit where Jon has to kill Qhorin now? In the book Ygritte gets away and Jon rejoins the men of the Watch and then they have the convo about how Jon may end up having to kill him to let the wildlings know that he is serious about joining up with them.

Also I don't think its that out of character for someone who is meant to have been rotting in a dungeon for an entire year really. Jaime at this point is still on with his own sense of honour and the fact that kid is a really distant cousin isn't going to hold him back from trying to make his escape.

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Jaimie is a great manipulator. His dialogue with Catelyn (great actress btw) was one of the highlights of this episode for me.

Also, Pryat Pree is one creepy fuck.

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I like the interaction between Tywin and Arya, especially when he revealed he'd worked out she obviously wasn't a peasant.

But it doesn't quite *work* because all the portentous knife wielding doesn't make sense when she could just ask Jaqen to kill him. In fact, wouldn't that have almost made more sense than Armory Lorch? (!)

Also: Jaimie killing his cousin in cold blood is completely out of character. After he becomes a POV character in the books you realise that even his prior to having hand chopped off behaviour had a logic to it and he wasn't supposed to be as sadistic as you initially think he is?

Arya is an 8 year old girl, which means she acts entirely off her emotions and for short term gain. She doesn't hate Tywin in the show, it seems like she actually has some sort of respect for him. She's probably thinking of what will best get her out her situation rather than what will win Robb the war.

As for Jaime, I agree. HBO are probably making him more evil so his "redemption" is clearer to show watchers.

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