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Wasteland 2 - Director's Cut

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If a year ago you would have told me that in 2012 I would be spending money on a new 2D Wasteland game and a new 2D isometric Shadowrun.... :wub: Just amazing scenes is what this is, amazing scenes.

I know, it's crazy. I never dreamt in a million years that we'd see another Shadowrun CRPG. It's one of my favourite RPG settings of all time along with Planescape. Now there's a thought, dare we dream?

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If a year ago you would have told me that in 2012 I would be spending money on a new 2D Wasteland game and a new 2D isometric Shadowrun.... :wub: Just amazing scenes is what this is, amazing scenes.

All we need now is a System Shock 2 remake!

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So Wasteland 2 has made it's $2.1m target, $42k in PayPal donations on top of the Kickstarter pager, they also have plans should they hit $2.5m/$3m. I think the process of the funding and development could be as interesting to watch as the game.

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http://www.rockpaper...-2/#more-103098

Interview with Avellone about Wasteland 2 here.

Chris Avellone: I’d argue Kickstarter isn’t what the industry needs, it’s what players need. Who’s to say “dead genres” are dead? Are they? Who made this decision? And worse, who decides that those games won’t be financed? Publishers have every right to watch their bottom line, but for a long period of time, that was largely the only financial model developers had – and the only way most players were going to see games get produced.

...

I still consider a lot of innovations that occurred with Fallout 1 and Wasteland to be unmatched in today’s RPGs. I feel true innovation often gets lost beyond features that require new engine tech and the latest video card when we can achieve more interesting game mechanics in tighter constraints.

I don’t think anything involving Kickstarter would stop future RPG iteration across the major franchises in the slightest. There’s still a market for those huge budget RPGs that people want, and they’re fun to play, so no harm there. I also don’t see the harm in the industry going “backwards” and forwards – again, I think there’s a lot of gameplay elements that can be learned from working on “old school” titles that are just as applicable in current titles and can push both genres forward.

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I only just realised there was a Shadowrun kickstarter project.

Unbelievable.

I pledged immediately, I can barely even fathom the idea of a sequel to Shadowrun, let alone think it's actually going to be made.

Kickstarter is a very good thing.

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Shadowrun on the SNES is actually my favourite game of all time. Glad to see the kickstarter has raised over double of what was needed... however...

2D turn-based? I appreciate it's limited to what iOS can do, but I am hoping it will prove to a big dev that there is room for a full action RPG hack-em-up a bit like Deus Ex 3.

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Well it's isometric 3D like Xcom, according to one of the update vids, so exactly like Shadowrun on the SNES. The fighting in the SNES game was never particularly brilliant so turn based and contextual (that was mentioned a lot) could be pretty cool.

I bloody loved Shadowrun and love Xcom and turn based games so hopefully this will be just that. It was never going to be a Deus Ex 3 with that sort of budget obviously but hopefully it's richness will be in the world iteslf and the character / story. There could be some clever "4 dimension" stuff as well in regards to hacking stuff in the 'net allowing things to open up / change in the real world. I'd rather they kept everything looking like the SNES version and just spent all their money on AI, story, missions and all of that sort of stuff, than it being bells and whistles. Which Deus Ex 3 was to some degree, the hacking part of that was just a little minigame which didn't really do much in the grand scheme of things.

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Yup, I want to ENTER cyberspace and battle with personified AI. Like in the Neuromancer game, how fucking good was that too? Again, one of my fave games. All my fave games seem to be cyberpunk!

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That's where it looks like it's going from the vids etc, which is what it should do.

Even the cyberspace bits in Beneath a Steel Sky were better than the 'hacking' in DE3.

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I only just find it about the Shadowrun kickstarter project. This is amazing.

Now if I can only get Jordan Weismann to remake BattleTech: The Crescent Hawk's Inception and I will pledge everything in my bank account!

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To be honest, I had to trawl to the third page to find this thread when I realised Shadowrun was on kickstarter, it deserves it's own thread in my book, if I create one, can any mods out there be bothered to merge?

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Although I'm doubtless being a negative nelly the Shadowrun project doesn't quite grab me in the same way as Wasteland 2 or Double Fine. Maybe it's just because Brian Fargo/Tim Schafer are bigger names associated with so many great titles and Shadowrun was a bit of a one off, I'm not sure exactly what Data East went on to do after. Also I'm not bothered about a level editor and would rather all resources went into a great single player story. Still if it turns out to be great there's nothing to stop me buying when it comes out so vive la Kickstarter.

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Yeah, I was actually looking for a seperate thread when I found out about it too. CREATE AWAY!

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Although I'm doubtless being a negative nelly the Shadowrun project doesn't quite grab me in the same way as Wasteland 2 or Double Fine. Maybe it's just because Brian Fargo/ Time Schafer are bigger names associated with so many great titles and Shadowrun was a bit of a one off, I'm not sure exactly what Data East went on to do after. Also I'm not bothered about a level editor and would rather all resources went into a great single player story. Still if it turns out to be great there's nothing to stop me buying when it comes out so vive la Kickstarter.

That's more or less what I thought. I didn't pledge for Wasteland as I don't really care, but if I did I'd be in. The whole thing seems professional, they've told people what to expect etc. Double Fine not only make good games already, but they've committed to doing something that we know they're good at. In both cases, it's entirely possible the end result will be shit, but it's unlikely to be an unprofessional mess.

The Shadowrun one, which I might have pledged to, didn't give me that feeling at all. It all seems a bit vague, a bit of a pub conversation blown up and put on the internet. There are some awful, awful Kickstarter projects and that's not one of the worst by a billion miles, but anyone who has spent any amount of time on there will know that you have to keep your eyes open. They do fuck up and when they do it gets fairly messy.

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Fair point, I was very dubious about the info on 'the Banner Saga' which had some interesting sounding write ups from various gaming websites and a mention of 'industry veterans' which were then working on a turn based game based on viking mythology. All sounded like it could be quite good but then after doing some digging on the page, the alleged 'industry veterans' who I thought might have been people that had worked on some classic turn based games perhaps, or some rogue classics from yesteryear, actually turned out to be two artists and a sound guy that worked on Knights of the Old Republic as the only thing in their game making history.

Bit fishy I thought.

Although the game doesn't look bad, it just came across as a bit cheeky.

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Fair point, I was very dubious about the info on 'the Banner Saga' which had some interesting sounding write ups from various gaming websites and a mention of 'industry veterans' which were then working on a turn based game based on viking mythology. All sounded like it could be quite good but then after doing some digging on the page, the alleged 'industry veterans' who I thought might have been people that had worked on some classic turn based games perhaps, or some rogue classics from yesteryear, actually turned out to be two artists and a sound guy that worked on Knights of the Old Republic as the only thing in their game making history.

Bit fishy I thought.

Although the game doesn't look bad, it just came across as a bit cheeky.

Yeah, that kind of thing. Kickstarter is a difficult idea, because it can end up forcing the creator down a path they don't want to go, or at least don't want to go yet. The obvious example is this:

http://www.kickstart...a-a-minimal-pen

A fantastic project, explains what they want, what they're going to make etc. They seem nice, professional, not at all stupid. But then it blew up and they ended up needing to make a few thousand pens when they were expecting to make much less. They've worked through it, kept people informed etc., but there have still been some very unhappy people whinging about not getting their pen as soon as they were promised it etc.

And if that's what happens when something well considered gets a bit out of control, a project that sets off on a slightly dodgy footing is a bit scary, really.

This is basically just a "keep your eyes open" kinda post aimed at nothing/no-one in particular

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Fair point, I was very dubious about the info on 'the Banner Saga' which had some interesting sounding write ups from various gaming websites and a mention of 'industry veterans' which were then working on a turn based game based on viking mythology. All sounded like it could be quite good but then after doing some digging on the page, the alleged 'industry veterans' who I thought might have been people that had worked on some classic turn based games perhaps, or some rogue classics from yesteryear, actually turned out to be two artists and a sound guy that worked on Knights of the Old Republic as the only thing in their game making history.

Bit fishy I thought.

Although the game doesn't look bad, it just came across as a bit cheeky.

I think you might be being slightly unfair, http://stoicstudio.com/about.html has more details. They've only worked with each other on one game before, but that was for five years and John Watson is a coder, his cv from linkedin

  • Lead Combat Programmer at BioWare
  • Lead Client Programmer, DC Comics Universe at Sony Online Entertainment
  • Senior Programmer, Star Wars Galaxies at Sony Online Entertainment

  • Senior Systems Software Engineer at Space Telescope Science Institute

How long do you have to be in the industry to be a veteran? They're all about 10 years. They might not have worked on this type of game but it doesn't mean they can't make it and no where in the kickstarter blurb or their own page do they claim to have worked on this type of game it's just a game they want to make and believe they can. The sound guy and additional animation people are people they've got in contact with to help out now they can afford to with the additional kickstarter cash.

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I think you might be being slightly unfair, http://stoicstudio.com/about.html has more details. They've only worked with each other on one game before, but that was for five years and John Watson is a coder, his cv from linkedin

How long do you have to be in the industry to be a veteran? They're all about 10 years. They might not have worked on this type of game but it doesn't mean they can't make it and no where in the kickstarter blurb or their own page do they claim to have worked on this type of game it's just a game they want to make and believe they can. The sound guy and additional animation people are people they've got in contact with to help out now they can afford to with the additional kickstarter cash.

OK fair enough, 10 years is clearly a good stint, I was only really going by the blurb on kickstarter and from the stuff that has come out recently in regards to Fargo, Schafer, Weisman and even Al Lowe remaking the Leisure Suit Larry games, when something is advertised as it was, it made me (wrongly) expect it to be a team made up by, I dunno, the Gollops or someone. It all looks pretty good, as I said, I just think that kickstarter can be a bit misleading in regards to buying into the hype of other things.

There is of course a huge possibility that although personally I would be more likely to put money towards someone that is back with their own IP or niche (like Schafer etc already mentioned) than someone that may have worked on loads of different games as an artist, these older veterans might be utter shit these days in terms of actually making a good game. I don't think that's the case but that particular project I found misleading, admittedly it's probably my reading more into it and getting excited about what could be but still.

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Doh, I was going to start a Kickstarter roundup thread before I found this one. Maybe it should be given a more general name?

Anyway, a friend of mine has started a Kickstarter:

Chuck's Challenge 3D

http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/niffler/chucks-challenge-3d?ref=history

It's for a PC/Mac sequel to Chip's Challenge with the input of the original designer, made in Unity.

And I really want the one for the PC Gaming Wiki to succeed, it's nowhere at the moment though: http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/438955692/pcgamingwiki-an-encyclopedia-of-pc-game-fixes

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Now if I can only get Jordan Weismann to remake BattleTech: The Crescent Hawk's Inception and I will pledge everything in my bank account!

\o

I actually still haven't put my money in for Wasteland 2. It's one of those things I keep remembering I haven't done yet. Maybe I shouldn't have spent £200 on LEGO last week :facepalm:

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Although I'm doubtless being a negative nelly the Shadowrun project doesn't quite grab me in the same way as Wasteland 2 or Double Fine. Maybe it's just because Brian Fargo/Tim Schafer are bigger names associated with so many great titles and Shadowrun was a bit of a one off, I'm not sure exactly what Data East went on to do after. Also I'm not bothered about a level editor and would rather all resources went into a great single player story. Still if it turns out to be great there's nothing to stop me buying when it comes out so vive la Kickstarter.

Shadowrun as a series of games is hard to pin down in terms of parentage, the only thing that binds them is the license.

The SNES version was done in Australia.

The Genesis version was done in America.

The MegaCD version was done in Japan.

All 3 are not the same game, and even the producer of the recent reimagining of the idea now disavows it, so nobody considers that to be a proper Shadowrun game.

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Shadowrun as a series of games is hard to pin down in terms of parentage, the only thing that binds them is the license.

The SNES version was done in Australia.

The Genesis version was done in America.

The MegaCD version was done in Japan.

All 3 are not the same game, and even the producer of the recent reimagining of the idea now disavows it, so nobody considers that to be a proper Shadowrun game.

Well I did love the SNES version and played a bit of the RPG back in the day. Although the fantasy/cyberpunk mix should be horrible it works really well, if they stay true to that atmosphere and rob a few mechanics from the RPG they're golden. Still can't believe these games are making a comeback after giving up all hope a decade ago, what are the chances of thoroughbred continuations of Deus Ex, System Shock 2, Thief and other 3D greats? The new interpretations play/look good but greater progress has been made on the graphics with the mechanics being more refined than expanded or improved reckon.

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