Metal Gear Solid V: The Phantom Pain

[Fury4k]

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[Smitty]

Do you treat people like this in real life smitty? Because I doubt many people would put up with someone acting like such a prick in real life.

I've made some jokes about about a game series. Someone call the police.

If you could point out what i've done wrong, that would help.

[Smitty]

Which? MGS 2 was insane but the gameplay was still good. MGS 4 had the longest cutscenes known to man but I genuinely enjoyed what was a fresh Metal Gear experience, because it mixed in classic MGS scenarios with different gameplay. I'm just waiting to go through my pile of shame before going back and playing them all again.

Just enough. Kojima needs an editor and to move onto something new. Please, just anything new.

[SMD]

Okay can we stick to talking about MGS?

Just enough. Kojima needs an editor and to move onto something new. Please, just anything new.

New would be good but since Konami keep roping him back into it, I don't mind him trying out different stuff with MGS.

[smithstock]

Damn, ran out of negs.

Anyway, looks interesting. One of those 99% sure of what you see, but then a rug is pulled when you play the game like MGS4 (spoiler).

Young Solid Snake shown in trailer for MGS4

[Fury4k]

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[Smitty]

New would be good but since Konami keep roping him back into it, I don't mind him trying out different stuff with MGS.

I won't him to move on, because like Star Wars the weight of all the previous are just pulling the MGS 'world' apart for me.

He's got talents, he just needs to move on. Go to another dev house, do something radical and not under the MGS name.

I only feel this strongly because the games suck me in and then I feel all weird and abused. I only get annoyed this much because it's so annoying to really want to connect with something and just feel the author laughing in your face or just not caring at all and being lost in his little overbaked fantasy.

It's just too much. Even if the new games are amazing, there's all this baggage from the series.

That's leaving aside the question of when this shit actually ends. How about a beginning and end to a series, rather than an ever expanding world racing in every direction, with each game's end being marked by Kojima saying creatively and spiritually the series has come to an end.

It's frustrating. Just stop. Kojima is a big draw by himself, and he will know talented people to work with.

NEW MATERIAL KOJIMA. You fucked around with MGS too much, you were far too sulf indulgent.

[Smitty]

You've repeatedly, for as long as I've known of you, purposefully posted inflammatory stuff in topics you've got no interest in until someone has called you out on it

That's just your opinion. I'm allowed to say whatever I like. Why is there a limit on me commenting but not you?

I have plenty of interest in this - talking about the MGS series, talking about this, slagging it off. I would even play it if it was any good. Who the fuck are you to dictate my interest?

The problem is humourless, control-freak dullards like you who think they have a right never to read an opinion they disagree with.

On many occasions people (myself included) have politely pointed out what it is about your posting style that is so disliked

Oh what a crock of shit. You're having a go because I'm mocking MGS. How can I say MGS is a big pile of shit in a way that won't offend your delicate sensibilities?

[Fury4k]

On 12/8/2012 at 18:58, Smitty said:

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[SMD]

But that's the thing, you say Kojima needs to move on but he was the one who wanted to...wait, are we doing spoilers for MGS 4? Well, I'll be on the safe side:

Killing off Snake was his idea, when he showed the team the ending they complained and said they didn't want that to happen so he got pressured into the epilogue. Which is why the ending for MGS 4 just ends up breaking the entire plot

You mention he should go to another dev house but isn't Japanese corporate culture a lot different when it comes to devs?

[Smitty]

For the most part I agree with you on all of that. We get far too many sequels in general and Kojima is talented enough to go on and do something truly great without the yoke of continuity around his neck and the diminishing returns that come with it. That said, I really enjoyed the trailer and I'm looking forward to seeing more - and I rarely say that about any games anymore.

Fight me with a fucking knife! Knife fight! KILL YOU

But that's the thing, you say Kojima needs to move on but he was the one who wanted to...wait, are we doing spoilers for MGS 4? Well, I'll be on the safe side:

Killing off Snake was his idea, when he showed the team the ending they complained and said they didn't want that to happen so he got pressured into the epilogue. Which is why the ending for MGS 4 just ends up breaking the entire plot

You mention he should go to another dev house but isn't Japanese corporate culture a lot different when it comes to devs?

That's even more reason to move on! He's said he doesn't want to do Snake forever, but he's continually agreeing to do exactly that.

[Smitty]

also:

[Fury4k]

On 12/8/2012 at 19:10, Smitty said:

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[Smitty]

See? Now I feel sad because I thought about the series and the massive disappointments and things never being quite right.

SOB

[Fury4k]

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[Spacehost]

I get people moaning about the almost comically convoluted storyline to MGS, but the games are stone cold masterclasses in game design. Haters gonna hate, etc.

[Kevvy Metal]

Metal Gear Solid 4 is a fucking brilliant game. It's something else, transcend to some kinda Anime/videogame meta-entertainment thing. I love it, it is distinguished.

The big problem is the Epilogue. It's like Mass Effect 3 syndrome or something. Even though the game is incredible over hours & hours of entertainment, it's the terrible final few minutes that stick in our minds and ruin almost everything that came before.

[Marlowe]

The issue isn't the storyline itself, but the ridiculous manner in which it is presented, which is part of the game design. It's a lesson in how not to do storytelling in games, and consequently nothing close to being a masterclass in design.

That's true. The first bit of chapter 5 in MGS 4 (infiltrating the Outer Haven ship) is one of my favorite pieces of gaming of the last few years, if only for the plethora of ways you can approach and beat that level.

Definitely, I loved that part. Unfortunately it was only the length of an average cut-scene. If the rest of the game would have been like that, then we'd be talking about a brilliant game.

[Smitty]

but the games are stone cold masterclasses in game design

If the MGS games were a masterclass in game design, and other games aspired to it, i'd give up on gaming.

Thankfully neither is true.

[Smitty]

or maybe you just like different games eh

Like RE6?

[Smitty]

The issue isn't the storyline itself

Come on, it definitely is at times. The whole arm business in MGS2?

MGS1 had me the whole way. I was enthralled. I thought this series was going to be hot as fuck. Sure the cutscenes were long and wordy but they were the right side of long and wordy.

MGS2....jesus h christ

That's what gets me. So much potential. I want to be this big MGS mega fan. But apparently, like Lucas, there was no-one running quality control at the dev. No-one was saying 'no' to Kojima.

From what I played, it looks to me like MGS3 is the one that's the real fantastic piece of work. I liked what I played anyway, and from the stuff I saw in videos it looks sorta consistent and so on.

I get people moaning about the almost comically convoluted storyline to MGS

Also it's not just that its convoluted, it's badly told.

As everyone always says, give Kojima an editor.

[George Clooney]

Don't be so silly.

SMD asked a question about why this reaction from me, and I gave him an answer.

There really is no need to come out with such hysterical nonsense, as if somehow my dislike for the series impugns upon your appreciation of it.

Its more like you having nearly a quarter of the posts in a thread about a series you hate and spend most of your time just posting one liners about how shit you think it is kind of shits the thread up for people that might actually be interested in discussing it properly.

[Smitty]

Its more like you having nearly a quarter of the posts in a thread about a series you hate and spend most of your time just posting one liners about how shit you think it is kind of shits the thread up for people that might actually be interested in discussing it properly.

Nah, don't be silly. You do realise, all of you, that always make mountains out of molehills when instead of posting your thoughts about the subject in hand, you spend post after post telling me to shut up.

Like just post what you want to post. Everything will balance out.

I can say whatever the fuck I like about MGS, when I like, however many times I like, so instead of telling me to stop expressing my opinion, join the discussion.

I mean, for instance, is Kojima still as creatively in charge of this has he been every other MGS game?

[Fury4k]

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[Spacehost]

Metal Gear Solid 4 is a fucking brilliant game. It's something else, transcend to some kinda Anime/videogame meta-entertainment thing. I love it, it is distinguished.

The big problem is the Epilogue. It's like Mass Effect 3 syndrome or something. Even though the game is incredible over hours & hours of entertainment, it's the terrible final few minutes that stick in our minds and ruin almost everything that came before.

Yeah, I generally block that post credits segment from my memory. It's interesting that if anything, since Shuyo Murata joined the studio The balance has shifted more towards dialogue heavy elements. I guess that's what you get hiring a radio drama director.

[Spacehost]

The issue isn't the storyline itself, but the ridiculous manner in which it is presented, which is part of the game design. It's a lesson in how not to do storytelling in games, and consequently nothing close to being a masterclass in design.

I don't think there's anything wrong with the methods themselves- noninteractive sequences married to brief expositional radio chats are the de facto standard these days in loads of games- but the volume of narrative content, which is definitely a byproduct of the script, is surely the main area of criticism.

They need someone to pare down the dialogue and the amount of material, not reinvent the wheel. MGS4 and Peace Walker both started using radio chatter that didn't interrupt game play to provide exposition, which I think they should move towards more.

[Jug McKenzie]

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[Dandy_Sephy]

They need someone to pare down the dialogue and the amount of material, not reinvent the wheel.

Unlike what seems to be most people, I liked the MGS2 story. However the post Plant stuff is easily twice as long as it needed to be and could easily have been cut in half without actually changing the events. Isn't there about 50 minutes of dialog between the last two fights?

[Triple A]

I love MGS, extra long cutscenes and rambling psychobabble included. BRING THIS ON.

[Spacehost]

Unlike what seems to be most people, I liked the MGS2 story. However the post Plant stuff is easily twice as long as it needed to be and could easily have been cut in half without actually changing the events. Isn't there about 50 minutes of dialog between the last two fights?

Easily. I love MGS2 because it's a game as much about playing MGS1 as it is a sequel to MGS1, but the whole "we are the American political system given consciousness" thing was unnecessarily longwinded as it was plain unnecessary.

Just seen the trailer, got to say, this is epic. Post Traumatic Stress Disorder: The Game, judging from the first snippets. Also, calling it now: this is a game about Solidus.