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seems to me that the supermarkets have pretty much given up on gaming. Tiny sections with little stock, and the stock they do have is almost always in the wrong place. (eg, star trek in the bioshock slot)

Which is a problem because other than the surely on borrowed time GAME, BB and HMV it's the only retail presence worth a damn they have.
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It wouldn't surprise me if our local GAME is struggling now. Since we opened a year ago we have seen our customers go up and up. It is now a daily basis where we hear people saying they won't shop at GAME anymore. We are also selling out of new titles at launch as people know 9 times out of 10 we are cheaper by at least a fiver.

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Exactly. For the next few years at least, the big 3 need Game to survive.

Why? When did you last buy a game in one?

The console makers main demographic are precisely the set of people most likely to be used to buying things online. Even the parents of the kids involved are as likely to buy online. Even my parents (both in their sixties) are happy buying things online.

We're not in the nineties any longer. The only reason for physical shops is second hand, which is why Game is now 90% second hand.

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blimey.

shops closing doesn't mean there isn't a bricks and mortar market whatsoever.

how about entire chains? chains that had previously bought up all the other bricks and mortar retailers?
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I don't see how it follows that one or more chains collapsing means there is no bricks and mortar market whatsoever. Are you assuming those chains were competently run? HMV's MD said in 2002 that supermarkets would never be a serious threat, downloadable music was just a fad and people would always prefer real shops to buying online. Everyone I know who worked for HMV at various levels and every acquaintance who knew people at HMV said it was shite.

Do you think there is no bricks and mortar market for games at all? Look, you might be right but hundreds of independents have got money riding on the contrary.

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seems to me that the supermarkets have pretty much given up on gaming. Tiny sections with little stock, and the stock they do have is almost always in the wrong place. (eg, star trek in the bioshock slot)

Yup, make all the effort to steal the gaming market from the traditional game retailers by loss leading pricing. Once your competition is on the ropes stop giving a fuck completely and continue to sell beans and cheap toasters. Not just the fault of the supermarkets though, the publishers were falling over themselves to give them bulk discount, price protection and retro active discounting.

Let's blame pre-owned, long generation and piracy for lack of sales.

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Not just the fault of the supermarkets though, the publishers were falling over themselves to give them bulk discount, price protection and retro active discounting.

All large retailers get those things.

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blimey.

shops closing doesn't mean there isn't a bricks and mortar market whatsoever.

Really? There's only 1 chain of reputable size that sells new games, this time last year we nearly lost it. There are only 2 more chains that specialise in new media, over the last year we nearly lost both of them.

Other than that you have Grainger, which is regional at best (I've never seen one), the supermarkets (who we've already established either don't give a shit or don't know how to) and fucking Argos.

If there's a brick and motor market, where's it hiding?

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how much price protection did GAME get pre-crisis?

how much price protection did say Tesco get at the same time?

Don't know. My point is that back in the 00's they got favorable treatment.

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I don't see how it follows that one or more chains collapsing means there is no bricks and mortar market whatsoever. Are you assuming those chains were competently run? HMV's MD said in 2002 that supermarkets would never be a serious threat, downloadable music was just a fad and people would always prefer real shops to buying online. Everyone I know who worked for HMV at various levels and every acquaintance who knew people at HMV said it was shite.

Do you think there is no bricks and mortar market for games at all? Look, you might be right but hundreds of independents have got money riding on the contrary.

It's not "one or more chains", it's "Literally every chain".

MVC, Music box, HMV, FOPP, Virgin, Zavvi, Our Price, GAME, Gamestation, Blockbuster, Gamestop, EB, Future Zone. All gone, gone from the UK or nearly gone in the last decade or so. Number of new national media chains in that time that still exist :0.

Boots, WH Smith, Menzies : Chains that sold games, none of whom do now (and one of whom is gone).

The supermarkets : All tried, all scaling back massively. Tesco Extra Wembley is about as big as Tesco gets. Their range is about 300 total facings and they barely even keep stuff in stock after week 1.

All those independents rely very, VERY heavily on used games (and often to some degree, anciliary markets). they survive (for now, although they're disappearing) but a healthy industry would not have chains having to scavenge non-new sales to that degree.

Yes, GAME going down didn't indicate much but there is literally no media orientated chain that has the same owner as even when Skyrim was released. The simplest explanation is usually correct. When 1 chain goes under that explanation is that they were idiots. When 13 do and 0 survive? No.

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And game are barely selling games new, let alone stocking a reasonable selection of new games.

Although we are a the tail end of a generation.

Again: who's preordered a new console from a physical shop?

Or, given the last of us came out last week - what percentage of us bought it new from a dedicated game shop, as opposed to buying from PSN, from an online shop or a supermarket?

Ten years ago, I'd have bet that percentage would have been in the 90s. Now I'd be surprised if it was greater than ten percent.

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And game are barely selling games new, let alone stocking a reasonable selection of new games.

Although we are a the tail end of a generation.

Should be the opposite with a HUGE install base.

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It's not "one or more chains", it's "Literally every chain".

MVC, Music box, HMV, FOPP, Virgin, Zavvi, Our Price, GAME, Gamestation, Blockbuster, Gamestop, EB, Future Zone. All gone, gone from the UK or nearly gone in the last decade or so. Number of new national media chains in that time that still exist :0.

Boots, WH Smith, Menzies : Chains that sold games, none of whom do now (and one of whom is gone).

...

Yes, GAME going down didn't indicate much but there is literally no media orientated chain that has the same owner as even when Skyrim was released. The simplest explanation is usually correct. When 1 chain goes under that explanation is that they were idiots. When 13 do and 0 survive? No.

You talk about them as if they were all separate. But there weren't 13 separate companies that separately went under. Woolworths acquired MVC and later went under. Electronics Boutique became GAME, GAME acquired Gamestation, later went under. Our Price was acquired by WH Smith, which controlled Virgin too - I can't remember how many changes Our Price / Virgin went through. HMV acquired Zavvi, which used to belong to Virgin.

I never saw a game in Boots, but I take your word for it.

I agree the market's tough. I'm saying there remains a market (GAME had 600 stores, it now has 370). And I'm saying maybe those companies weren't well run (GAME and HMV spring to mind).

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You talk about them as if they were all separate. But there weren't 13 separate companies that separately went under. Woolworths acquired MVC and later went under. Electronics Boutique became GAME, GAME acquired Gamestation, later went under. Our Price was acquired by WH Smith, which controlled Virgin too - I can't remember how many changes Our Price / Virgin went through. HMV acquired Zavvi, which used to belong to Virgin.

I never saw a game in Boots, but I take your word for it.

I agree the market's tough. I'm saying there remains a market (GAME had 600 stores, it now has 370). And I'm saying maybe those companies weren't well run (GAME and HMV spring to mind).

THAT'S THE FUCKING POINT!!!

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never saw a game in Boots, but I take your word for it.

How old Young are you? Which also makes me question your experience of the retail industry beyond being a till monkey on a weekend.

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What, that poorly run entertainment chains have disappeared or reduced in size shows there is no market at all for games?

wel, they all had one thing in common: games, and for the most part they dabbled in 2nd hand games, because profit.

now they're no longer with us, because that market couldn't sustain itself.

no one was buying new games anymore, because THEY were pushing 2nd hand.

AND they were charging as near as RRP for the new stuff, to make the pre-owned games with 100% profit appear to be the better option.

blimey.

shops closing doesn't mean there isn't a bricks and mortar market whatsoever.

Ok Brainiac, what DOES it mean?

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How old Young are you? Which also makes me question your experience of the retail industry beyond being a till monkey on a weekend.

Being fair, growing up in the rural uk in the eighties, there weren't *many* games in Boots and they did tend to come and go (and then only in the largest store in the area).

Although I only remember two independent games shops in my county. And, bizarrely, none in Ludlow (which twenty years later is referred to as a videogames magazine Mecca at the time).

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wel, they all had one thing in common: games, and for the most part they dabbled in 2nd hand games, because profit.

Yes, they all had games in common. But Our Price was primarily a music store. Woolies relied on music a great deal. WH Smiths relied on books.

Ok Brainiac, what DOES it mean?

Do you think there are only two modes, "nothing" or "600 stores"? Do you think there is nothing inbetween?

Apparently the market could not support 600 GAME stores and/or the way GAME was run. Apparently it can support for the time being the way GAME is run now and its 300 stores. Apparently it can also support for the time being the 200+ independents that opened as GAME collapsed.

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Yes, they all had games in common. But Our Price was primarily a music store. Woolies relied on music a great deal. WH Smiths relied on books.Do you think there are only two modes, "nothing" or "600 stores"? Do you think there is nothing in between?

Apparently the market could not support 600 GAME stores and/or the way GAME was run. Apparently it can support for the time being the way GAME is run now and its 300 stores. Apparently it can also support for the time being the 200+ independents that opened as GAME collapsed.

they closed half the stores BECAUSE THEY HAD TWO STORES IN EVERY TOWN. THREE if they also had a GameStation. That they had to pay rent on.

What stopped them from being profitable enough to keep the stores open?

Right now the promise of sales with the release of new hardware is what's keeping GAME open.

Beckenham had no Game and two indies. They've both closed. I can't think why actually.

The thing with those 200+ indies is that every one of them knows what Game was doing was self-defeating, and every one of them thinks they can do better.

Good luck with that. Competing with supermarkets and amazon, I mean.

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I remember getting Sonic 2 on Master System from Boots in Hastings when I was a wee nipper, but always thought this was a dream because nobody else has ever mentioned them selling games. Glad to hear it was reality.

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they closed half the stores BECAUSE THEY HAD TWO STORES IN EVERY TOWN. THREE if they also had a GameStation. That they had to pay rent on.

What stopped them from being profitable enough to keep the stores open?

And we have been told in this very thread that in some towns they had two or three stores in the same mall. I was recently told of one mall in Scotland (can't remember the town) where they had three on the same corner - all separate stores wondering why footfall was so low.

So what I am suggesting is that the market could not and certainly cannot today support two or more stores in every town and mall. Maybe it can only support a few in every county. And maybe it cannot support all the costs associated with having a large chain (like a big backoffice operation, multiple layers of management, expensive board).

Beckenham had no Game and two indies. They've both closed. I can't think why actually.

The thing with those 200+ indies is that every one of them knows what Game was doing was self-defeating, and every one of them thinks they can do better.

Good luck with that. Competing with supermarkets and amazon, I mean.

We will see won't we? Time will tell.

Anyway, no need to get het up just because I'm disagreeing with some things you're saying.

Good night.

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I remember getting Sonic 2 on Master System from Boots in Hastings when I was a wee nipper, but always thought this was a dream because nobody else has ever mentioned them selling games. Glad to hear it was reality.

Brought my snes at launch from boots.

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