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The terrifying, never-ending (old) Star Trek thread - new movies and Discovery talk in the other, dedicated threads

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I watched 'Best of Both Worlds' recently too, and it has aged pretty badly. I love it still because I remember it when it aired originally, but I can understand how it could be see as disappointing today.

Watch 'Chain of Command' instead.

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"The big cliffhanger wasn't so exciting."

It's arguably the most iconic cliffhanger in the history of series television. No biggie. :coffee:

Maybe that's a consequence of my not watching 60 episodes before that point or that I've seen Picard appear in movies after the events of that episode. Maybe at the time it had a similar effect to the end of S1 of BSG, where the whole nature of the series may have been changed for S2, I don't know. I'm no TV trope archeologist, but good-guy-brainwashed-to-briefly-be-bad-guy presumably dates back at least as far as 30s King of the Rocket Men serials, so it's not fundamentally interesting unless the execution is great. When I was a kid Dr Who had worse things happening to him every week.

I also imagine the Borg felt properly threatening, but I don't feel that. The Cylons in that 33 minute episode of BSG were properly kicking humanities arse. And they had a plan.

My perspective is someone coming to it relatively fresh in 2012, not that of a fan recalling how it seemed to them two decades ago. That's the premise of the thread. There's no point if I don't report my feelings honestly. I'm not trying to damage your childhood memories. I'm just trying to find some interesting telly to watch with you guys.

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Best of Both Worlds Part 1.

Poor!

I'd heard good things from you guys about this one, but boy was I disappointed. It's astonishing how dated it all is, with some of it being only borderline competent. TV has improved so much in the meantime. This is only 1990, for goodness sake. Goodfellas came out that year! A lot of the acting is just bad. The new woman who is battling with Riker is unwatchable. You rarely see a terrible actor in a decent US TV series these days.

I don't find the Borg scary or interesting. Which is a shame, as I have good memories of First Contact, and the S&M relationship between the hot ladyborg and Picard. They remind my wife of the Terrahawks.

The big cliffhanger wasn't so exciting, although I bet Picard and his new shoulder laser made a good action figure.

The only bright spot was the shots of the Enterprise orbiting a planet. It's such a lovely ship design, and I can't get enough of those exterior shots. The Borg cube looks less convincing nowadays. The space shots kind of show up some of the rest of the production design. So many interiors are dull and look fake.

Colour me interested - which episode was that?

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Is there any value in forcing myself to watch Part 2, or should I move on down the list?

If the ‘Picard is a Borg’ cliffhanger didn’t do it for you then the second part probably won’t be your cup of Earl Grey, hot. I’d suggest jumping to something like Parallels (7x11) for some decent sci-fi action.

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The worst episode of TNG was the one where the Enterprise picks up a load of Space Irish, who have a big party in the cargo hold, playing diddly-diddly-dee music and carrying pigs around. Then they meet some hoity-toity snobs, who are all like "ewww, we don't like you peasants," but it turns out they're, like, cousins or something and they have to move onto a new planet together because both their own planets are blowing up or some shit, I dunno.

Rubbish, that one is.

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The worst episode of TNG was the one where the Enterprise picks up a load of Space Irish, who have a big party in the cargo hold, playing diddly-diddly-dee music and carrying pigs around. Then they meet some hoity-toity snobs, who are all like "ewww, we don't like you peasants," but it turns out they're, like, cousins or something and they have to move onto a new planet together because both their own planets are blowing up or some shit, I dunno.

Rubbish, that one is.

...and Riker pulls one of them. Classic stuff.

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I watched 'Best of Both Worlds' recently too, and it has aged pretty badly. I love it still because I remember it when it aired originally, but I can understand how it could be see as disappointing today.

Watch 'Chain of Command' instead.

Yea, do this.

Patrick Stewart gives a masterclass.

THERE ARE FOUR LIGHTS!

Yeah, for me, Chain of Command is one of the best episodes. In fact, all my favourites involve a lot of Picard. There's something about The Inner Light, for example that always stuck with me.

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After setting up the Xbox to get the US Netflix (as detailed in the OT thread) and finding out that every episode of Star Trek ever made was ready to instantly stream I decided to watch the first proper episode of Voyager (after the pilot). It's exactly what the series should have been. Conflict between the crew, worries about maintenance and issues with replicators, weapons and general supplies. Even Neelix isn't a complete tit and is actually quite useful. The Doctor actually feels like a computer program - I always loved the Doctor but actually found that he had far too much personality by the end to really make he believable as a computer subroutine. I always found it slightly unsavory that effectively Star Fleet were using self aware slave labour to do its bidding.

But yeah, I wish Voyager had continued down the route it started on. It was so exciting to see a ship that was genuinely all alone with limited resources and it could have made fro great viewing. But somewhere along the line resources never became an issue, maintenance and repairs just happened automatically and the Maquis aspect to the crew completely disappeared to the extent that you would have thought that everyone on Voyager was a proper Star Fleet graduate.

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The worst episode of TNG was the one where the Enterprise picks up a load of Space Irish, who have a big party in the cargo hold, playing diddly-diddly-dee music and carrying pigs around. Then they meet some hoity-toity snobs, who are all like "ewww, we don't like you peasants," but it turns out they're, like, cousins or something and they have to move onto a new planet together because both their own planets are blowing up or some shit, I dunno.

Rubbish, that one is.

That was TNG's The Trouble With Tribbles episode.

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always loved the Doctor but actually found that he had far too much personality by the end to really make he believable as a computer subroutine. I always found it slightly unsavory that effectively Star Fleet were using self aware slave labour to do its bidding.

The holographic programs were created purely, and only, to be used in an emergency - the Doctor was active longer than any medical hologram ever had (this was touched upon in the series) and as such became more 'self aware' and developed a personality far beyond what was originally intended - moreso than any other hologram in Starfleet. The show always took great pains to point this out.

The Doctor's development was part of his story arc - I think they handled the whole thing very well, personally.

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It kinda takes away everyone being gobsmacked at Data when if you leave the microwave on for too long it'll eventually develop sentience in the Star Trek universe.

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But yeah, I wish Voyager had continued down the route it started on. It was so exciting to see a ship that was genuinely all alone with limited resources and it could have made fro great viewing. But somewhere along the line resources never became an issue, maintenance and repairs just happened automatically and the Maquis aspect to the crew completely disappeared to the extent that you would have thought that everyone on Voyager was a proper Star Fleet graduate.

Yes, that all happened at about episode 3. :)

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The holographic programs were created purely, and only, to be used in an emergency - the Doctor was active longer than any medical hologram ever had (this was touched upon in the series) and as such became more 'self aware' and developed a personality far beyond what was originally intended - moreso than any other hologram in Starfleet. The show always took great pains to point this out.

The Doctor's development was part of his story arc - I think they handled the whole thing very well, personally.

As I say, the Doctor was my favorite character. I think holograms in the Star Trek universe are a bit of a grey area. TNG showed that it is quite easy to make a hologram sentient (Moriarty), Voyager backed this up with the Doctor whilst simultaneously we've got Star Fleet back in the Alpha quadrant developing long term medical holograms and using the original medical holograms as slave labour to mine ore. Creating self aware holograms and continuing to use holograms once they've proved that they can become self aware definitely seems akin to actually slavery and it would have been interesting if this issue had ever properly been tackled. It was raised briefly I think in 'Author Author' which was good (albeit the actual plot thread of slavery that was raised was left hanging) but the fundamental question of whether you should use holograms who can become or are self aware was never really addressed.

TLDR: The Doctor was handled very well, but the repercussions from the Doctor's development were never really mentioned (as in should Star Fleet continue to use anything but extremely basic holograms).

My god that was a geeky post.

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The Doctor was the best character in VOY by many country miles, Robert Picardo did an excellent job.

That's probably my problem. The Doctor had such a great character that I never found him believable as a hologram/computer program in the same way that Data's behavior clearly set him apart from the human characters.

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The worst episode of TNG was the one where the Enterprise picks up a load of Space Irish, who have a big party in the cargo hold, playing diddly-diddly-dee music and carrying pigs around. Then they meet some hoity-toity snobs, who are all like "ewww, we don't like you peasants," but it turns out they're, like, cousins or something and they have to move onto a new planet together because both their own planets are blowing up or some shit, I dunno.

Rubbish, that one is.

Ha, watched this last night (I am tearing through them). It is indeed absolutely excruciating.

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The worst episode of TNG was the one where the Enterprise picks up a load of Space Irish, who have a big party in the cargo hold, playing diddly-diddly-dee music and carrying pigs around. Then they meet some hoity-toity snobs, who are all like "ewww, we don't like you peasants," but it turns out they're, like, cousins or something and they have to move onto a new planet together because both their own planets are blowing up or some shit, I dunno.

Rubbish, that one is.

"What's the matter, William? Do ye not like girls?"

Hot.

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I quite enjoyed Part 2 of Picarborg (more action, right from the start). I liked Clues. The setup was more interesting than the resolution., but I was intrigued by Data giving shifty looks. Never trust the guy in the office who wears clown makeup.

No interesting observations to make to justify bumping the thread, but as I just shat on ZOK's Henry Rollins thread, I wanted to spread some lukewarm positivity around so I didn't feel like such a big curmudgeon.

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Parallels, in which Worf travels to a new, sexier parallel universe. He has too much honour to exploit the situation for any more than a chaste kiss. I think this was a missed opportunity to explore the ethics of cheating on yourself with your own wife / sexually harass a valued co-worker who is well up for it in another dimension. The show has quite a different tone by this stage in the run. Everyone seems to be kicking back and having a laugh with it all, as opposed to the po-faced earnest earlier episodes.

I still cant quite believe that I didn't notice Worf was black until seeing him on imdb.

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