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The terrifying, never-ending (old) Star Trek thread - new movies and Discovery talk in the other, dedicated threads

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Well if this thread proves anything it shows that everybody has their favourite Trek and those favourites are different for a lot of people.

For me, I've never really been one for TOS. I never knew and loved the characters the same as I did with the more modern series (excluding Enterprise). I grew up with TNG/DS9/VOY so I guess they just sort of got under my skin and stayed there. Those three go together in the same sort of era if you like, both in terms of when they were made and when they were set, although spanning a fair few years.

I find the first few series of TNG to be a bit slow, but there are some cracking episodes there, too. My advice would be to simply start at the beginning of TNG if you're not sure on TOS, but that's just because that's how I feel about it as well. The pilot of TNG really sets things up, and whilst the next couple of seasons are a bit slow, you'll still enjoy watching them. I've often started from the beginning when I watch although I do sometimes skip ahead a few years as well (end of season 3 = amaze).

Once you're done with Next Gen, you've got the movies although you don't really need to watch them then and there before doing anything else. As mentioned, TNG and DS9 overlap a bit (from the bits you may have seen, you might recall Worf and O'Brien popping up in both).

When it was first on I found DS9 slow, again, at the start. As mentioned it really picks up from Season 4 onward and turns into some amazing television, but it's a very different vibe to TNG as it's all for the most part on the space station and all. It leads to a lot more character based stuff though, I think. As well as some epic shooty bits :-D The first time I watched DS9 through from the beginning though, I loved it. You just gotta have a little patience.

And Voyager is kinda back to TNG-ish exploration, similar stories new aliens, basically. Characters for the most part not as cool (except The Doctor), but it's enjoyable enough if you forgive it for not being TNG.

So there's my thoughts really.

TL;DR version - consider starting at the beginning of TNG if you're not sure you'll enjoy TOS.

Edit: just a couple of random favourites of mine. Why not!

TNG - Disaster. Mentioned previously. The Enterprise gets bashed up, Troi is in charge, Riker decapitates Data and Picard has to sing in French to children.

DS9 - In The Cards. Ok, it's about Jake and Nog. It's a silly one. But I think it's just placed so well in the show and achieves exactly what it sets out to in the context in which it falls. They're chasing a baseball card for Sisko on what is essentially the 'eve' of battle in episode ordering and I just found it really... cute?... how they manage to brighten everyone's day a little.

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That does bring up a point. People have said that DS9 S4 is a reboot, but I think they've missed the crucial point that the introduction of a certain transportation in the season 3 opening really had an affect on the series. It opened up the show by making it much easier to have stories take place off the station involving more than 3 people. The introduction of the Founders in the same episode had just as much an effect as Way of the Warrior did as far as overall tone goes.

In the cards is a nice light hearted episode, which is well placed because the next episode is "A Call to Arms", where the shit hits the fan, bringing us a two season long story arc of epicness

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Do a search for "Star Trek" on Anytime, when you see the results you'll see most of the movies listed but in among them is separate entries for DS9 seasons 1 - 3.

I don't have them listed, how odd :-(

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As far as Voyager goes, just watch Year Of Hell. To my mind it's the grittiest and most exciting episode of the entire Voyager series, and gives you an idea as to what the show would have been like if they'd had the stones to follow through on the original premise.

Big fan of Voyager though, so don't take that as a strike against it, but the premise of being lost on the other side of the galaxy is squandered for all but a precious few episodes, with Year Of Hell and Equinox being a glimpse of what could have been.

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Best bet for that sort of thing is Bridge Commander. I really enjoyed that. It's done by the same people who made the X-wing games, but feels like you're flying around in a big bulky ship rather than a fighter. A bit combat focused but you get to hail the planet, have a chat and so on.

Star Trek Online is free to play now. It's a fun game under it all, but the MMOness of it and the piss poor menus & bad design of the equipment and inventory ruined it for me.

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So! First episode! Q Who? Terrible! Really boring and dated and ponderous and self-important.

It started badly. My missus had a feeling of dread from the first stab of music. And after the first line I said "I'm bored already." There was this terrible bit of business in the tease where some new woman spills her hot chocolate on the captain. The acting and framing were straight out of a porn parody. And the rest of the acting varied from terrible to bland to luvvie hamming.

But it was the slow narrative that really killed it. Genre TV has come so far since then. Basically nothing exciting happened, and what did happen was painstakingly explained very slowly and then they had a bunch of conference calls about the best way to proceed. And then I got bored and fast forwarded a bit and then Q sorted it all out for them and Picard said it was probably for the best.

I downloaded about 20 of your TNG suggestions. I'm going to force us to press on and give this two more episodes before junking it. I'm going to go for a complicated time travel or Groundhog Day episode next: I love that sort of stuff, can't go wrong, surely?

Little House on the Prairie is looking like the winner so far.

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I suspect you're a bit like me in this respect: I could never get into TNG or subsequent series either. The original series (or 'Star Trek' as I call it) is cheesy and dated as hell, but it's cheesy in the way 60s stuff is charmingly cheesy, and it's dated like classic TV has dated, and it laughs at itself constantly - not in a knowing, winking way, but in a genuinely open and funny way. And it's James T Kirk, for chrissake, and Spock, and flippin Bones McCoy, Scotty, Uhura, all those crazy archetypes. And it has that weird friggin music, and those polystyrene worlds with weird coloured skies, and, I dunno, there's something really special and atmospheric about all that. And when it was serious it didn't seem all dry and pompous like some of the later stuff.

I guess it depends when you were born really. I guess Trek in later years was just out of my age range a bit, but it never grabbed me like that did when I was a kid and you actually thought we were going to maybe end up like that - I suppose it was prophetic in a way, although we didn't actually achieve world peace, racial harmony or unlimited space travel and universal benevolence. But some of us did end up with Kirk's pot belly, his penchant for falling in love disastrously and a hankering to fight giant lizards. So it was half right.

So I reckon you should just go back to basics, Graham, and get this:

51H9XnYCnCL._SL500_AA300_.jpg

But only really being a fan of the original show and a few of the films, I'm not really a trekkie/trekker I guess, so feel free to ignore.

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This might be the thread to ask, are there any decent Star Trek video games? Where you can just fly around meeting aliens and having adventures?

Cheers.

There are a few good Trek games, and a lot of not so good. Some of them aren't really games but more along the lines of FMV's arranged into a loose themed structure (Star Trek Klingon etc). Three games spring to mind that I enjoyed:

Star Trek 25th Anniversary. Fly around, engaging in battles on the ship, beam down and engage in traditional point and clicking. Voiced by the original cast on PC CD, but available on Amiga and PC Floppy

TNG:A Final Unity. In many ways the TNG equivelant of 25th Anniversary. Again using the original cast, mess around on the ship, beam down for away missions in point and click style. The 3d Cutscenes were impressive in the day, but will surely look dreadful now

Voyager:Elite Force. Voyager FPS by Raven, using iD Tech 3 (quake III engine). The pc version scored highly, but the ps2 version is supposed to be a bit of a mess (average score on ps2 is around the 50% range vs hi 80s for the pc version). If anyone is interested in the game I have the game and expansion for sale for a low cost

Klingon Honor Guard, a FPS was alright as well,

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So! First episode! Q Who? Terrible! Really boring and dated and ponderous and self-important.

It started badly. My missus had a feeling of dread from the first stab of music. And after the first line I said "I'm bored already." There was this terrible bit of business in the tease where some new woman spills her hot chocolate on the captain. The acting and framing were straight out of a porn parody. And the rest of the acting varied from terrible to bland to luvvie hamming.

But it was the slow narrative that really killed it. Genre TV has come so far since then. Basically nothing exciting happened, and what did happen was painstakingly explained very slowly and then they had a bunch of conference calls about the best way to proceed. And then I got bored and fast forwarded a bit and then Q sorted it all out for them and Picard said it was probably for the best.

I downloaded about 20 of your TNG suggestions. I'm going to force us to press on and give this two more episodes before junking it. I'm going to go for a complicated time travel or Groundhog Day episode next: I love that sort of stuff, can't go wrong, surely?

Little House on the Prairie is looking like the winner so far.

:( I suspect it just won't click with you. TNG is always ponderous and driven by conference-calls.

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I suspect you're a bit like me in this respect: I could never get into TNG or subsequent series either. The original series (or 'Star Trek' as I call it) is cheesy and dated as hell, but it's cheesy in the way 60s stuff is charmingly cheesy, and it's dated like classic TV has dated, and it laughs at itself constantly - not in a knowing, winking way, but in a genuinely open and funny way. And it's James T Kirk, for chrissake, and Spock, and flippin Bones McCoy, Scotty, Uhura, all those crazy archetypes. And it has that weird friggin music, and those polystyrene worlds with weird coloured skies, and, I dunno, there's something really special and atmospheric about all that. And when it was serious it didn't seem all dry and pompous like some of the later stuff.

I guess it depends when you were born really. I guess Trek in later years was just out of my age range a bit, but it never grabbed me like that did when I was a kid and you actually thought we were going to maybe end up like that - I suppose it was prophetic in a way, although we didn't actually achieve world peace, racial harmony or unlimited space travel and universal benevolence. But some of us did end up with Kirk's pot belly, his penchant for falling in love disastrously and a hankering to fight giant lizards. So it was half right.

Yes, in terms of atmosphere there's nothing else like it. I love the pink and purple skies too. I always see the original Trek as a stage play, as even when I was a kid it was ancient (although not as ancient as Star Trek: TNG is now, relatively speaking <_< )

Painted set design like this:

LOT-199.jpg

never fails to take me back to long Friday nights as a kid eating egg and sausage and chips in front of a shitty 14" TV :)

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TNG has mostly good episodes in it, especially once series one is over and done with. Skin of evil is particularly turd, although the funeral scene, while not exactly exciting, is very nicely written. In particular avoid any in which Troi's mother takes centre stage: where she takes a minor role, just FFW the bits where she is on screen.

I also like the original series - the planets are all boulders sprayed a different colour, and if the landing party included a security guard, you knew he wasn't coming back.

Try as I might, I just could not get into DS9, although I enjoyed the double episode where they were fighting loads of klingon ships.

I like the first few series of Voyager, and can agree that Year of Hell is very good, but in the later series it is taken over by 7 of 9 too much, and Star Trek as a whole loses quite a bit with the Borg seeming so much more vulnerable, in my opinion.

What little I saw of Enterprise was very boring.

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So! First episode! Q Who? Terrible! Really boring and dated and ponderous and self-important.

It started badly. My missus had a feeling of dread from the first stab of music. And after the first line I said "I'm bored already." There was this terrible bit of business in the tease where some new woman spills her hot chocolate on the captain. The acting and framing were straight out of a porn parody. And the rest of the acting varied from terrible to bland to luvvie hamming.

But it was the slow narrative that really killed it. Genre TV has come so far since then. Basically nothing exciting happened, and what did happen was painstakingly explained very slowly and then they had a bunch of conference calls about the best way to proceed. And then I got bored and fast forwarded a bit and then Q sorted it all out for them and Picard said it was probably for the best.

I downloaded about 20 of your TNG suggestions. I'm going to force us to press on and give this two more episodes before junking it. I'm going to go for a complicated time travel or Groundhog Day episode next: I love that sort of stuff, can't go wrong, surely?

Little House on the Prairie is looking like the winner so far.

Well, I made my wife watch the season 4 episode "Clues" with me this week. This is the perfect example of a self-contained story that's not too geeky. As the title suggests, it's a science fiction mystery episode. I absolutely loved watching it again. It made me laugh, the plot is still excellent, and it was like visiting old friends. Sure the acting is a bit hammy in places (Worf an Deanna are still very wooden at this point), but the main characters are still brilliant.

Q Who is from season 2. There is a noticeable jump in quality in season 3.

Anyway, "Clues" went down very well with the wife, and she wants to watch more. She insisted that she used to watch TNG from time to time ("Is that the one with the yellow man in?") but I have my doubts, as she said at the end "so that was Star...what was it again?"

It was quite light and self-contained, which appeals to her. I suspect our other halves differ, Graham, because I doubt I could get her into The Wire. I would never inflict "Q Who" on her, despite it being important to the series as a whole. I don't think it's sexist to state that most women don't care about the Borg.

Try one of the later episodes before you jack it in, Graham. Maybe Timescape or Parallels for a mind-bender. Yesterday's Enterprise is another time-travel one, and is one of the best episodes, so you could go for broke and just watch that. It's season 3, though.

The next one I'm planning to watch is Second Chances. It's season 6, and a great character-based "what if?" story of the type that only science fiction can offer.

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Q Who is a great episode, but I'd never watch it first. You don't get the relationship between Picard and Q that's established in Encounter At Farpoint. Without seeing other episodes, you don't get just how alien the Borg are compared to the other alien races. The beauty of Q Who was that Q was kinda proven right about mankind's arrogance.

"If you can't take a little bloody nose, maybe you ought to go back home and crawl under your bed. It's not safe out here. It's wondrous, with treasures to satiate desires both subtle and gross. But it's not for the timid."

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Yeah, Q Who isn't the best introductory episode really.

Cause and Effect is probably a good one to go for.

I don't think so. Launching right into the Enterprise exploding? Doesn't mean anything to a new audience. Then there's the buddy-buddy nature of the poker game, etc.

Despite it being a bit dodgy, you really have to watch Encounter At Farpoint first.

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I don't think so. Launching right into the Enterprise exploding? Doesn't mean anything to a new audience. Then there's the buddy-buddy nature of the poker game, etc.

Despite it being a bit dodgy, you really have to watch Encounter At Farpoint first.

Forget it, they won't get more than five minutes into Farpoint. Even at the height of my Star Trek obsession I considered it turgid crap.

Back when it was on BBC2 I just watched whatever episodes I could get my hands on. The first TNG I ever watched was "Brothers", which is a continuation of the Lore storyline that started in season 1. I had no idea who Lore or the backstory, but it was enough to make me want to watch more. Then a few episodes later "Remember Me" came on and I was hooked.

A newcomer could start with virtually any episode of TNG bar anything with "part 2" in the title - that's the beauty of an episodic series. 'Cause and Effect' would make total sense to a n00b - you don't have to have watched the previous three seasons to be shocked by the sight of the Starship Enterprise exploding.

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'Cause and Effect' would make total sense to a n00b - you don't have to have watched the previous three seasons to be shocked by the sight of the Starship Enterprise exploding.

Time loops? The Enterprise exploding then miraculously being back to life after the credits? No. Sorry, but it's a ridiculous episode to start your TNG experience with.

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Time loops? The Enterprise exploding then miraculously being back to life after the credits? No. Sorry, but it's a ridiculous episode to start your TNG experience with.

Well, that's the whole mystery isn't it?

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There are almost no arcs in TNG to worry about. What there is is incredibly simplistic.

I introduced the GF to sci-fi the other day. Gently of couse. She enjoyed Star Wars. I warned here of the existence of another sci-fi show I don't mind watching every now and then but not one I expect her to enjoy. The reverse psychology game - and she bit! I have both parts of Encounter ready... but now I'm worried that it will put her off immediately. It's difficult to get into the head of somebody who has never even heard of Star Trek before. I honestly don't remember the first time I saw ToS/TNG - they've always been around in my life. This means that I just don't know what to show her first.

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There are almost no arcs in TNG to worry about. What there is is incredibly simplistic.

I introduced the GF to sci-fi the other day. Gently of couse. She enjoyed Star Wars. I warned here of the existence of another sci-fi show I don't mind watching every now and then but not one I expect her to enjoy. The reverse psychology game - and she bit! I have both parts of Encounter ready... but now I'm worried that it will put her off immediately. It's difficult to get into the head of somebody who has never even heard of Star Trek before. I honestly don't remember the first time I saw ToS/TNG - they've always been around in my life. This means that I just don't know what to show her first.

I'd only bother with Encounter at Farpoint if you're intending to watch the whole lot again. You're not, are you?

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There are almost no arcs in TNG to worry about. What there is is incredibly simplistic.

I introduced the GF to sci-fi the other day. Gently of couse. She enjoyed Star Wars. I warned here of the existence of another sci-fi show I don't mind watching every now and then but not one I expect her to enjoy. The reverse psychology game - and she bit! I have both parts of Encounter ready... but now I'm worried that it will put her off immediately. It's difficult to get into the head of somebody who has never even heard of Star Trek before. I honestly don't remember the first time I saw ToS/TNG - they've always been around in my life. This means that I just don't know what to show her first.

As someone else said I'd definitely avoid starting with Encounter at Farpoint. It's just not very good. Choose some good one off episodes and ease her in with them, much like Graham is doing. What about the Wounded, that's a pretty good episode with an action component. Plus it nicely sets up DS9 to a certain extent if you want to head in that direction.

I guess the reason I suggested Cause and Effect to Graham is because TNG, to be fair, can be a bit slow and plodding and does rely on conference scenes to a large extent. At least Cause and Effect gets you straight into the action.

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