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The terrifying, never-ending (old) Star Trek thread - new movies and Discovery talk in the other, dedicated threads


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This past 12 months been selectively re-watching TNG era Trek. The biggest surprise for me was just how fucking brilliant DS9 is, I actually found it even better on a rewatch, but what's equally surprising is how much ridicule Voyager still gets - it's entirely underserved. Voyager is fucking fantastic. 

 

TNG, DS9, VOY = Top Tier Trek.

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I loved Voyager at the time, although it did drag on a bit. I think it gets some criticism for just being more TNG in a new part of the galaxy when it could have been BSG before BSG, but it's far from a bad show for what it is.

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Yeah I loved Voyager at the time but having rewatched all the series in recent years, it's definitely my least favourite of the TNG era shows.  Just feels like a lot of wasted potential whereas TNG and DS9 became more than the sum of their parts. It's by no means a bad show though, just never quite hits the highs of the others and they were definitely running out of ideas by the end.

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Voyager gets into trouble for 3 main reasons 

 

 

Overuse of the reset button 

Neutering the Borg 

Fairhaven 

 

Couple with the fact for most of its run it was airing alongside DS9 that was doing arcs, consequences carrying over etc and it just all too often felt like a step backwards.

 

But it has some great standalone episodes 

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Voyager's finale is a bit disappointing, isn't it? I love the show, but after all the shenanigans throughout the Endgame two-parter, it just stops at "They got home. The end". At least All Good Things gave you very good idea as to where the characters end up; Endgame shows this but then retcons it all. At least AGT only did that a little (Worf, Riker, Troi), with everyone else you more or less knew what was going to happen and I assume still did happen. 

 

Voyager's ending is wholly unsatisfying. But now that I think about it, weren't there meant to be movies that followed, but never happened?

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2 minutes ago, Thor said:

Voyager's finale is a bit disappointing, isn't it? I love the show, but after all the shenanigans throughout the Endgame two-parter, it just stops at "They got home. The end". At least All Good Things gave you very good idea as to where the characters end up; Endgame shows this but then retcons it all. At least AGT only did that a little (Worf, Riker, Troi), with everyone else you more or less knew what was going to happen and I assume still did happen. 

 

Voyager's ending is wholly unsatisfying. But now that I think about it, weren't there meant to be movies that followed, but never happened?


I don’t think more was planned. 
 

I remember there was disquiet at the time of the lack of payoff (this was before Enterprise lowers the bar)

 

It also got flack for going back to Timetravel and weak Borg again.

 

I think the bigger issue was it was never clear why Janeway wanted to change timeline. Tuvok was ill and about 20 were dead (how many had died to that point) but otherwise it’s hard to see the timeline was worth risking

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19 minutes ago, Hexx said:

I think the bigger issue was it was never clear why Janeway wanted to change timeline. Tuvok was ill and about 20 were dead (how many had died to that point) but otherwise it’s hard to see the timeline was worth risking

See, I found her motivations perfectly sound. I'll spoiler tag just in case...

Spoiler

If Admiral Janeway doesn't interfere, then Captain Janeway loses Seven three years later after an away missions goes wrong. She then gets to spend another decade or so living with the grief while watching Chakotay become consumed by grief, never to be the same again. Given her affection for those two in particular, I felt the motivation was sound. 

 

One thing did surprise me though, considering Janeway's well known for fucking timelines up, where the hell were the Temporal Police people, in whatever form they should have been?

 

Also, I recall Lower Decks makes reference to the "Janeway Protocol". Rewatching Voyager, I now know exactly what that is:

 

Take every rulebook you can find (Starfleet Regulations, Khitomer Accords, Cardassian-Bajoran peace treaty, the Neutral Zone, Ferengi Rules of Acquisition, Temporal Prime Directive etc.) aaaaaannnnddd ... throw them all out of the nearest airlock! :lol:

 

But keep the Federation Charter - they're just principles that are open to interpretation, not a rulebook. :coffee:

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Regardless I think your point stands - AGT is a lovely send off to the team, Endgame is too busy being an explosive climax.

 

Then again the crew werent as widely loved. I can’t even recall if Harry was in the finale :D

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49 minutes ago, Hexx said:

Regardless I think your point stands - AGT is a lovely send off to the team, Endgame is too busy being an explosive climax.

 

Then again the crew werent as widely loved. I can’t even recall if Harry was in the finale :D

 

Endgame just needed an extra 10 minutes or so after reaching earth. It just ends so... suddenly. 

 

I know we had the future bit but you want to see this crew fly under the Golden Gate Bridge and then land and for Paris and his father to meet in person. 

 

Then, a simply 1 year down the line conclusion would have been nice - where did they all end up, what happened to the ship Voyager just to tidy up some character narratives would have been appreciated. 

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I've re-watched Voyager and DS9 a lot over the years. They're my go to background shows because I know them well and can just ignore most of it.

 

The thing that gets me about Voyager is how slowly they move. For a crew trying to get home they constantly get caught up by people they've met before many many episodes before. From the Kazon in the first season or two, an ex-crew member who died two years earlier and catches up via a shuttle, the clones who turn around a fly backwards. They really do seem to spend a lot of time going literally no-where.

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19 minutes ago, thesnwmn said:

I've re-watched Voyager and DS9 a lot over the years. They're my go to background shows because I know them well and can just ignore most of it.

 

The thing that gets me about Voyager is how slowly they move. For a crew trying to get home they constantly get caught up by people they've met before many many episodes before. From the Kazon in the first season or two, an ex-crew member who died two years earlier and catches up via a shuttle, the clones who turn around a fly backwards. They really do seem to spend a lot of time going literally no-where.

 

They spend the first couple of seasons plodding along as you would expect then they just seem to start mega jumping at least once or twice a season. Was a silly way to do it because there was rarely any payoff or actual exploring. Just constant running away with no consequences to their actions. Except with the Kason but even they seemed to realise what an awful baddie they'd created and ditched it not long after.

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On 30/01/2021 at 11:15, Mogster said:

I loved Voyager at the time, although it did drag on a bit. I think it gets some criticism for just being more TNG in a new part of the galaxy when it could have been BSG before BSG, but it's far from a bad show for what it is.

 

Thing I loved about Voyager was that the premise was almost exactly what I thought the premise of TOS was when I was a kid.

 

I'd been told, or read, or hallucinated, that the Enterprise in TOS was trying to get home the whole time, then many years later, Voyager was just that.

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1 hour ago, McCoy said:

 

Endgame just needed an extra 10 minutes or so after reaching earth. It just ends so... suddenly. 

 

I know we had the future bit but you want to see this crew fly under the Golden Gate Bridge and then land and for Paris and his father to meet in person. 

 

Then, a simply 1 year down the line conclusion would have been nice - where did they all end up, what happened to the ship Voyager just to tidy up some character narratives would have been appreciated. 

Aye, that's exactly what was needed. Shame they didn't.

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23 minutes ago, Thor said:

Aye, that's exactly what was needed. Shame they didn't.

 

Indeed. Unlike TNG you don't get the feeling this crew will stay together once they reach Earth. Just have been an interesting conclusion to the journey to see what happened to everyone. 

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On 02/02/2021 at 01:41, GwiDan said:

There's a 1% that isn't?


DS9 - Millennium 

 

Millennium: Fall of Terok Nor/War of the Prophets/Inferno (Star Trek: Deep Space Nine) https://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B00B0X0S26/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_api_34QT4QB82C1TAVPJ2RY1
 

edited to change link as the original I posted basically told the story :lol: 

 

Anyway I’m a fan of the first book in particular, the thing that I adore about these books is that it really feels true to DS9 and I could hear the actors in my head :wub:

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Here's a thought: It's now twenty years ago that we heard the first rumblings about a new post-Voyager series being a prequel series set centuries before the other Treks. I remember my imagination running wild with the possibilities, particularly with information leaking out that there would be a more low-tech, grittier Trek where even routine space travel was much more hazardous.

 

Then July that year:

 

Spoiler

enterprise1.jpg.78e0ae35a0635b8a8a221cc9ed29845a.jpg

The first image of the new titular starship emerged. A sure sign that what we were getting was going to be the least imagination, most derivative Trek ever, nearly all recycled content in different packaging. :( 

 

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15 hours ago, Protocol Penguin said:
Spoiler

The first image of the new titular starship emerged. A sure sign that what we were getting was going to be the least imagination, most derivative Trek ever, nearly all recycled content in different packaging. :( 

 

 

And yet, it turned out great! Phew!

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18 hours ago, Protocol Penguin said:

Here's a thought: It's now twenty years ago that we heard the first rumblings about a new post-Voyager series being a prequel series set centuries before the other Treks. I remember my imagination running wild with the possibilities, particularly with information leaking out that there would be a more low-tech, grittier Trek where even routine space travel was much more hazardous.

 

Then July that year:

 

  Hide contents

enterprise1.jpg.78e0ae35a0635b8a8a221cc9ed29845a.jpg

The first image of the new titular starship emerged. A sure sign that what we were getting was going to be the least imagination, most derivative Trek ever, nearly all recycled content in different packaging. :( 

 

 

Why is that in spoiler tags?

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