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The terrifying, never-ending (old) Star Trek thread - new movies and Discovery talk in the other, dedicated threads

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Whereas this is how it actually looked:

 

 

Still, a fantastic battle scene.  Even in SD. A shame how much they had to cut out to include the remaster in the documentary.

 

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1 hour ago, LowCostMonkey said:

The problem is that the VFX shots need to be done. They were made on video, not film. So this makes it a lot expensive to remaster than an episode of Friends (apart from The One With The Massive Space Battle).

 

Although this was a clever idea.. https://www.engadget.com/2019/03/15/star-trek-deep-space-nine-ai-remaster/ 

 

I agree it is a lot more expensive than something like Friends but TNG had similar issues and came in at around a cost of $70,000 an episode to remaster or around $12.5m for the series.  This is not chump change but it is also not huge money for a one off cost to basically future proof 176 episodes of a popular TV series for your sparkly new streaming service.  Effectively, for the cost of two new Discovery episodes you can convert DS9 or Voyager in its entirety. 

 

Now DS9 and Voyager have different issues to cope with, more of the effects was CGI rather than model work so this has to be recreated or a work around completed as suggested in your post. But it does not seem insurmountable and I have a sneaky suspicion it might be more likely than people are thinking. If the new merged company really wants to exploit Trek then spending a bit of money to ensure every single minute of Trek is in HD might be a useful bit of spending.  It's only DS9 and Voy which are left behind now, there must be a temptation to bring everything up to the same standard, particularly when you're producing new content which may be attracting new fans. And it is not like the $12.5m cost per series is dead money, there'll still be some profit created by physical sales, you can still use this content to sell your own streaming service and you can probably demand a premium when licensing it to syndication and other streaming services if it is of a better quality standard. 

 

TNG was really a special project and perhaps I can see that they might try to do DS9 or Voyager on the cheap but I still think they will want a way to present those shows which stands up a bit better to 2019 viewing methods. 

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One thing I found when rewatching TOS on Netflix was I hated the shonky CGI. However much objectively 'better' it was than the original effects it totally took away from the feel of the show for me and I'd have much rather had the very very dated version than the moderately dated version. I think DS9 and Voyager wouldn't be so badly affected but any brand new CGI effects put in would look out of place with everything else.

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1 hour ago, McCoy said:

 

I agree it is a lot more expensive than something like Friends but TNG had similar issues and came in at around a cost of $70,000 an episode to remaster or around $12.5m for the series.  This is not chump change but it is also not huge money for a one off cost to basically future proof 176 episodes of a popular TV series for your sparkly new streaming service.  Effectively, for the cost of two new Discovery episodes you can convert DS9 or Voyager in its entirety. 

 

The problem was that the studio lost a fortune on the TNG remaster and aren't really of a mind to do it again.  It might happen if the work drops in price several years down the line but its a very long way off.  Luckily a couple of years back one of the DS9 staff found a hard drive stashed at home with a backup of loads of ships, CGi elements they used so there's enough to at least begin the original work. 

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7 minutes ago, Papaya Dance said:

One thing I found when rewatching TOS on Netflix was I hated the shonky CGI. However much objectively 'better' it was than the original effects it totally took away from the feel of the show for me and I'd have much rather had the very very dated version than the moderately dated version. I think DS9 and Voyager wouldn't be so badly affected but any brand new CGI effects put in would look out of place with everything else.

 

That was done years before though? TNG was miles better than that, it's actually quite impressive the way it looks now.  They touched up loads of stuff like ships and planets to how it should look and its tough going back to the old view.

 

 

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13 minutes ago, Lorfarius said:

 

The problem was that the studio lost a fortune on the TNG remaster and aren't really of a mind to do it again.  

 

I mean, that's where my contention lies.  $12.5m for converting the entirety of TNG versus $7m an episode for Discovery.   They may have lost money, but big money in the grand scheme? 

 

Obviously not chump change, but not exactly major money for a corporation like CBS or Paramount. In perspective, to get Disney's streaming service going they are planning to spend $1billion in a single financial year. Amazon is paying $250m just for the rights to produce a Lord of the Rings series. Netflix paying $100m for just a single year of streaming Friends.  There is a lot of money floating around at the moment to create content and hooks for these subscription services. 

 

Sure, for a middle manager they may not want to spend it on converting DS9 and Voyager.  You almost need someone up top to come along and just give the project a big kick and see that a one off cost in exchange for future proofing one of your most important franchises is worth doing. We shall see... 

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They spent a fortune remastering TNG and then hardly anyone bought the box sets afterwards because they already had bought it on VHS and DVD and could just watch the new version on Netflix instead. Given Voyager and DS9 were less popular and contained much more complex CGI sequences to touch up, it's hardly surprising that they didn't bother, the likely returns don't come close to justifying the expense.

 

It sucks but there you go.

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I've been doing a re-watch of TNG over the past few weeks. "The Hunted" has Zeffram Cochrane's actor with a tache saying, "IT WAS THE WILL OF THE PEOPLE. THERE WAS A REFERENDUM."

 

Oh god.

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1 hour ago, Joystick Chevron said:

They spent a fortune remastering TNG and then hardly anyone bought the box sets afterwards because they already had bought it on VHS and DVD and could just watch the new version on Netflix instead. Given Voyager and DS9 were less popular and contained much more complex CGI sequences to touch up, it's hardly surprising that they didn't bother, the likely returns don't come close to justifying the expense.

 

It sucks but there you go.

 

Perhaps somewhat valid although ignoring the money that the remastered gained by the Netflix sale rights. The bigger problem was that they released each season for silly money to start with. 

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I've just started chatting to someone on a dating app who is massively into star trek. This is a first and I'm quite excited! Initially we agreed to disagree on whether NG or DS9 is the best, and agreed that they are head and shoulders above the rest.

 

Then it transpires that she really likes Discovery.

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30 minutes ago, Plums said:

I've just started chatting to someone on a dating app who is massively into star trek. This is a first and I'm quite excited! Initially we agreed to disagree on whether NG or DS9 is the best, and agreed that they are head and shoulders above the rest.

image.png.dfa26d70c31a9765a54ca723f1901141.png

30 minutes ago, Plums said:

Then it transpires that she really likes Discovery.

image.png.dc52ce9f9488cabae2106912a38e24f0.png

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My best mate likes Discovery. Its ruining our relationship as he cannot see the error of his ways and I am quickly losing respect for him.

 

Mind you, he loved Voyager and never watched all of DS9 so I should have seen that coming.

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I have been watching odd episodes of Enterprise lately on Netflix, as despite being an ardent Trek fan I largely gave up on it first time around.  Just finished watching the augment trilogy, with the Khan wannabes and it was excellent. 

 

This is what Enterprise should have been doing from the very start making compelling stories from the already rich Trek lore built up over previous series, not all the shit we got about insect and time wars over the first couple of seasons.

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You should watch the whole thing! I was strangely grateful that Discovery's awfulness made me go back to Enterprise's first season with fresh eyes, then stay till the end. It's way different from other Trek but a great series in its own right.

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Yeah I'm top to season 3 in my rewatch of Enterprise and I've really enjoyed it. A few duffers, but that's the same for all Star Trek series. I think I'm about up to where I stopped watching originally so looking forward to the rest. 

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13 hours ago, Mike1812 said:

Yeah I'm top to season 3 in my rewatch of Enterprise and I've really enjoyed it. A few duffers, but that's the same for all Star Trek series. I think I'm about up to where I stopped watching originally so looking forward to the rest. 

You're in for a treat. Season 3 and 4 are excellent.

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Scotch infused chewing gum. Now that's a future I can get behind. 

 

 

Which leads me to the things Shatner can't get behind.  

 

 

 

And the recent Guardian article that reveals Shatner just does not give a shit. 

 

Quote

Eventually Shatner’s persistent questioning made sense. “He was saying that he didn’t want to be held to some stupid kiddy standard; he wants to make something for him that speaks of his life, and what’s cooler than that?” Folds says. “A 75-year-old man doesn’t give a shit, just does not give a shit, and he’s the coolest motherfucker on the planet."

https://www.theguardian.com/books/2019/aug/29/ben-folds-william-shatner-brick-melbourne-writers-festival

 

 

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9 hours ago, Mike1812 said:

Season 3 of Enterprise done. That was really good, hope it continues into season 4. 

 

That theme tune though, how did they make it worse?

I felt S4 dropped off slightly from S3 but was still very, very good. I think opinion is generally split as to which was the better season though so I'll be interested to hear what you make of it.

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Season 3 of Enterprise was amazing, I really loved the Xindi stuff. They must have known that Season 4 was the last going into it as it feels so rushed to come to a conclusion.

 

Spoiler

The whole time cold war story is thrown under a bus at the start of the season with little explanation as to what actually happened (we never find out who the shadowy figure giving directions is). 

 

I did enjoy the whole foundation of the Federation story though, including the anti alien group of human's looking to disrupt the Federation being formed. Again, this story felt far too rushed.

 

The less said about the finale the better, it is a bittersweet disappointment as an ending for the series (if anything the episode preceding it is the true finale).

 

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