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Football Thread 2011/2012

SMD

By SMD
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Guest

Posted
Posted

What's all this about Scholes potentially off to the Euros?

Haven't we been championing blooding new players, giving them experience on the big stage?

Now there are various journalists (experts lol), seeming to say that Scholes can be our fulcrum. He could lead us to glory!

And yet the flavour of the month more recently was to stop such short termism. Capello goes and we hear "It's shown you can't buy success, we need to build for the future!".

As good as Scholes is calling him a "fulcrum" for the side is exactly the thing we don't need to build for future tournaments.

If he starts games he's taking up a midfield spot - and you can't pair him with another attacking player so that means Parker will surely play. And Parker has to play because he is in his prime.

So yeah, players could "learn" from Scholes - yet most likely watching from the sidelines.

Of course Scholes probably wouldn't go for it. As finger on the pulse Pallister says "I think he's made his mind up about it once and it would be very much a surprise If he was to turn around now". Yes. Just like when he retired from playing all together.

We need to be brave and blood the younger players in the big tournaments. We've got no chance of winning the Euros, and one Paul Scholes or a Gazza isn't going to make a difference. It's time to accept that and look at this tournament as a time to get a squad together and blood them.

I'd prefer some exciting matches in the group stages where we are adventurous and go for it. Let's say we don't get to the second round but go out in style - to me that's a better tournament than the debacle that was South Africa 2 years ago.

That was a disgrace.

Fingers crossed for Wilshire to return, and stay injury free. He, to me, looks like he could be the player England need for the next 3 tournaments. Heal up young Jack!

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Rev

Rev

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I think he's doing pretty well to say that he died in America yesterday.

Sorry.

For what it's worth, I do think he's a decent manager. It seems a strange appointment now since he's well-known for his preference for passing football while your present team.. Er.. Isn't. In the summer if you hadn't made it it would've made a bit more sense but even then Mandaric is basically saying either he's got to work miracles putting square pegs into round holes (either in terms of his players or his own philosophy) or he's gonna give him enough cash to buy half a new team which I'm guessing is unlikely. I'd probably be concerned about his play-off record myself if he'd come here so this is easy to say but those things really are a lottery, as much of a cliche as it is. Barring any ridiculous Lee Clark-esque selection cock ups I think it's hard to tell much about a manager from them.

If you judge things purely on past play-off performances Town might as well just give whoever we're drawn against a bye considering how we've done recently. I wish they'd fuck the things off and just give the spot to third place (starting last year).

When it comes to play-offs, Germany have it nailed. Their system is fantastic and fair and still has the money spinning play-off aspect.

For anyone who doesn't know, entirely simple - top spot gets automatic promotion, bottom in the league above gets automatically relegated. Then second and second bottom have a play-off. If the lower division team wins, they swap divisions. If the higher division team wins, they both stay where they are.

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Guest

Guest

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I wanna see Scholes with Giggs and Beckham at the Olympics anyway. Actually, I wanna see Wilshere, Welbeck, Sturridge, Walker, Jones, Smalling and Oxlade-Chamberlain at the Olympics as well. Balls to England.

A +1 for DC! Crazy times ;)

The whole Scholes chat for me is also the way we seem to build up to a tournament with "We won't win it without this player!!11".

Well, we aren't going to win it anyway - and with the pundits banging out the same out "Without Rooney we've got no chance" year after year it only reinforces that mindset across the whole country, and it will filter down into the squad.

Imagine if Rooney was banned! That means we've literally (Jamie) no chance.

So now a focus had switched to Scholes. Hinting that we need him so [we won't win it without him!]. There is no doubt he is still a wonderful player and well suited to international football where possession can be key. Yet for how long will we cling onto the "Golden Generation"? Why not bring Beckham back to sit on the bench at least! That will work a treat.

It's time to cut the frayed to hell apron strings and say goodbye to your Gerrards, Lampards, Terry's, Coles - bringing Scholes back in would only allow them to cling on a bit longer. The squad itself needs a new core and a new feeling - if things aren't happy behind closed doors it's proven to affect the performance on the pitch.

The concern is that if Redknapp takes the role he's going to want the glory, screw the consequences down the line. He's got a bit of form for that too "Ahh wasn't my fault guv" seems to be his stock in trade.

He won't build the squad for the future, he'll try to complete his legacy.

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Rev

Rev

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I prefer our system. At least you know you get new teams in the division every year.

I'd rather have the best teams in the top league, rather than new ones. The average standard of the Premiership is shit at the moment due to 3 up and down.

But you would still get 2 new teams anyway.

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El Pibe

El Pibe

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I prefer our system. At least you know you get new teams in the division every year.

I'm with you. For smaller teams, the play-offs give you a vague chance of promotion to a higher league, even if it remains fairly small. It also keeps the season alive for many teams who would otherwise be safe from the drop but also a long way from the top 3.

I can understand why the fans of bigger/more established teams would prefer the German way.

Realistically, Exeter City have no chance of being able to finish 1-3rd in League One but last year we came pretty close to sneaking into the play-offs and it kept our season alive and kept the gates up. Losing a few hundreds from the gate is a major concern for clubs of our size.

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Daley

Daley

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I tell you what I would do. Trim the top division to 18. Then everyone should (hopefully) have things to play for until the end, making things much more exciting. A quick look at the table says that from Norwich in 8th on 35 to Villa in 15th on 29 have nothing to play for, barring a pretty much spectacular run of form one way or the other.

There is no chance of this though as the shitty PL is run by the clubs themselves and there is no chance of them voting for this.

Although I think Birmingham had one more point than that at this stage last season and with Bent out maybe McLeish will work his magic again.

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Rsdio

Rsdio

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Yeah, I appreciate all that, obviously. But when your team loses out on promotion to a side they finished 8 points clear of over the season you start feeling the injustice of it being decided over one game (or, even worse, a ten minute spell of one game :().. And that sort of thing happens pretty regularly as play-offs are decided on form rather than performance over the whole year. I mean imagine if they started doing them to decide who wins the league and getting teams who finished fourth declared as champions. Yeah, everyone might know the setup at the start of the season but it does make a mockery of the whole point of a league table, IMO.

If they have to exist I think the better way is to have third playing third-bottom from the league above. And then, to make it SUPER exciting and ridiculous and to give Sky a few more all-important matches to show, they could do the same thing down to sixth playing sixth bottom from the league above. Potentially six up, six down.

OR, every club out of the 92 chooses a player to take part in a Royal Rumble to decide league placings.

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mirodo

mirodo

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When it comes to play-offs, Germany have it nailed. Their system is fantastic and fair and still has the money spinning play-off aspect.

For anyone who doesn't know, entirely simple - top spot gets automatic promotion, bottom in the league above gets automatically relegated. Then second and second bottom have a play-off. If the lower division team wins, they swap divisions. If the higher division team wins, they both stay where they are.

I'd prefer a QF between teams in the 3rd and 4th playoff positions, the winner playing the 2nd placed PO team in the semi, with the winner of that playing the 1st placed PO team in the final.

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Rev

Rev

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As far as I'm concerned the team in 6th going up just isn't fair. A team going up at the expense of a better team going down doesn't make much sense either.

I'm definitely with Ze Germans on this. And most other things league-football related, for that matter.

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Charliemouse

Charliemouse

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In another news, Jamie Cureton is back at Exeter City on loan.

I really hope he can rediscover the scoring touch he had with us last season.

Jamie Cureton is my favourite footballer of all time

Now we have Jason Roberts at Reading, I was hoping we would get Curo back as well and get one of the greatest lower league strike partnerships back together.

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Daley

Daley

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I believe FIFA are very keen on all the top divisions consisting of a maximum of 18 teams. I wouldn't be surprised if that ended up being the case in the next decade or so.

Ah the days of Italy having 18 and 4 going down was the good old days. I'm pretty sure I never imagined that.

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Smoothy

Smoothy

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Yeah, I appreciate all that, obviously. But when your team loses out on promotion to a side they finished 8 points clear of over the season you start feeling the injustice of it being decided over one game (or, even worse, a ten minute spell of one game :().. And that sort of thing happens pretty regularly as play-offs are decided on form rather than performance over the whole year. I mean imagine if they started doing them to decide who wins the league and getting teams who finished fourth declared as champions. Yeah, everyone might know the setup at the start of the season but it does make a mockery of the whole point of a league table, IMO.

If they have to exist I think the better way is to have third playing third-bottom from the league above. And then, to make it SUPER exciting and ridiculous and to give Sky a few more all-important matches to show, they could do the same thing down to sixth playing sixth bottom from the league above. Potentially six up, six down.

OR, every club out of the 92 chooses a player to take part in a Royal Rumble to decide league placings.

The playoffs thing is a relatively recent invention, isn't it? The 70s?
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Fry Crayola

Fry Crayola

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Whilst I'm usually firmly on the side of the Germans, you want league games to remain meaningful for as long as possible.

The Italians counteract the flaw where the lowest team in the playoffs can go up ahead of a side who were clearly superior by ensuring that if the highest place team in the playoffs finishes far enough ahead of the rest (10 points), there is no playoff at all - they get automatic promotion to Serie A instead.

I also quite like the system in place below the Conference divisions - the playoffs are one-legged, with the highest place team playing at home. The Conference Regional uses it too for the final, but the playoffs themselves are two-legged.

The playoffs thing is a relatively recent invention, isn't it? The 70s?

1986-87, in fact.

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FinalityJack

FinalityJack

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Yeah, I appreciate all that, obviously. But when your team loses out on promotion to a side they finished 8 points clear of over the season you start feeling the injustice of it being decided over one game (or, even worse, a ten minute spell of one game :().. And that sort of thing happens pretty regularly as play-offs are decided on form rather than performance over the whole year. I mean imagine if they started doing them to decide who wins the league and getting teams who finished fourth declared as champions. Yeah, everyone might know the setup at the start of the season but it does make a mockery of the whole point of a league table, IMO.

Personally I agree with the playoffs, it keeps the lower leagues alive by ensuring that there are less dead rubbers at the end of the season.

The way I look at it, if you finish 3-6 (or 4-7 in League 2) you are not good enough to go up automatically, and you need to prove your strength against the best teams in your division (IMO of course).

Losing the chance of a playoff place would end too many seasons early and I;d argue have a damaging effect on the finances of a lot of clubs.

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Rsdio

Rsdio

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That's all well and good, but surely finishing with more points than every other team over a season is a far more valid 'proof of strength' than deciding it over a single game? Anything can happen in one game - freak goals, poor refereeing decisions, it going to penalties or whatever. Leagues are there to test the ability of teams over time. As they say, 'the table doesn't lie'.

As I said, I appreciate that it keeps things alive for a bit longer but as I also said, if that's going to be the case to me it makes much more sense if the teams who are slated to go down play the ones who are slated to come up.

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Ork1927

Ork1927

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I was going to post some thoughts on Dave Jones, but realised I'd already replied back in May to someone asking why he'd been sacked.

I'm less bitter now, and I suspect he'll do a decent enough job for you in that league, but don't expect him to give a damn about the derby, he'll fall out with players at random and generally be a miserable bastard.

And his Plan A will be a good one, but when it start failing then you'll go on month long losing streaks (normally November and April) and if its anything like when he managed us then going a goal down means no chance of coming back for a win.

Mainly - bottling it. First season - did okay and finished top half. Second season - top for first few months and managed to finish well outside the play-offs. Third season - Cup Final: which was a hell of an achievement, but some would say we bottled the final by not starting Ramsey and as routes to the final go it wasn't that hard.

Forth season - the ultimate bottle. Needing 2 points from 4 games to get to the play-offs (one a game in hand) and a good goal difference, we lost 6-0 to Preston, drew 2-2 with relegated Charlton and then lost 3-0 at home to Ipswich in the last ever game at Ninian Park. We were then lost out on goal difference to Preston by losing away to Sheff Wed. Last season we lost to Blackpool at Wembley - obviously things could have gone differently, but we knew we'd lost as soon as Jay went off and Jones had failed to bring in any sort of back-ip or a different style when he wasn't fit.

And then this year - Bellamy (an impossible signing for any other team) and Ramsey papered over the cracks. The team had terrible runs of form (we always have bad Novembers under Jones), amongst good runs, but we stayed in the hunt for top 2. Then some players go out on the pop (ill discipline always a problem under Jones), we got battered at home 3-0 to Boro and then did it again in the play-offs against Reading.

I appreciate a lot of teams would love FA Cup finals and top 6 finishes in the Championship, but constant end of season disapointment can't carry on every season regardless of what league you are in or used to be in.

The shit conditions isn't really true - while we have terrible debt problems - Jones has been able to bring in plenty of players and, if not for big tranfer fees, for decent wages and has had some great fortune in some of the players he has been able to get - Chopra (twice), Koumas (first time around), Bellamy, Hasselbaink (sort of). Granted we have had to sell players - but really only players who were off to the Prem regardless or we've let players go for a free becuase he fell out with them. We have spent a lot of money since we got into the Championship.

Plus, Jones is a miserable, miserable bastard who would never ever take responsibility for any defeat, always had pops at the fans, fell out with the local press (not the biggest crime) and refused to accept that the Cardiff/Swansea derby was important to the people of Cardiff as it wasn't the Merseyside derby.

Glad he has gone.

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scruffycat

scruffycat

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I just got my 2012 Colorado Rapids season ticket pack in the mail :)

First game is next Sat, we have Columbus at home. Excited!

I'd love to go to a match like this, be really interested to see a non 'glamour' if that's the word, US match. Just everything about it, the fans, the football, stadium etc.

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Nick_L

Nick_L

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Good stuff. You can't be too excited by Colorado's off-season signings though - Rivero from Rosario and Freeman from Houston look decent pick-ups, I suppose, but the midfield still looks weak. I like the look of the new coach though.

Yeah I think we'll struggle a bit this year to be honest but you never know, it'll be nice to have Casey back. I'm really looking forward to just seeing the games again, season tickets are such good value it was hard to resist, espeically when I would end up going to all the games anyway.

I'd love to go to a match like this, be really interested to see a non 'glamour' if that's the word, US match. Just everything about it, the fans, the football, stadium etc.

It's great, still very American with the whole show aspect (national anthem, fireworks, Zombie Nation playing when the Rapids score :lol: ) which is a bit strange at first. Rapids have a great modern stadium which is only a couple of years old and a great supporters group (www.bulldogsupporters.com) which the club actually listen to and offer incentives, pretty good really.

It's got to be tough for a soccer team in the USA, especially in a city like Denver where there all already big established franchises for the four 'main' sports here (Football, Hockey, Basketball and Baseball) but it seems to be getting some momentum now.

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Naysonymous

Naysonymous

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Teams who finish third and fail to get promoted have no right to complain. In fact complaining about it pisses me off almost as much as anything in football. Look, you didnt win the fucking league. You werent even good enough to be runners up. You have no divine right to get promoted just because you had a moderately successful season. The Play Offs are vital for the good of the lower divisions, you dont have a race for Europe outside of the top flight so the play offs make for a perfect equivalent. Without that there would be about fifteen teams that have no chance of going up and too many points to go down who then have literally nothing to play for from about February onwards.

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