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Football Thread 2011/2012

SMD

By SMD
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Guest

Guest

Posted
Posted

Yep. I think we spent £90 million in about 3 or 4 years to achieve an FA Cup win. Absolutely crazy. If we freefall to League 2 then so be it. We need a reality check and proper owners in place.

A good £10m of that on faithful woulddiefortheclub twitch face though surely?

I bet every Porstmouth fan is glad he took you to such heights. It's all been worth it.

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Daley

Daley

Posted
Posted

Yep. I think we spent £90 million in about 3 or 4 years to achieve an FA Cup win. Absolutely crazy. If we freefall to League 2 then so be it. We need a reality check and proper owners in place.

Hopefully the fans manage to get together and do something rather than dodgy money-laundering tycoon #49. Fans moan about their team all the time but the thought of not having a club to support massively overshadows a few dodgy results or a relegation.

This reminds me. An MP has put forward this which says clubs must state who owns them and also proposes the end of the football creditors rule, which sees other football clubs paid in full when a club goes into administration, even if everyone else then gets hardly anything. Remember St John's Ambulance, the scouts and a school were some of the people not paid in full when Pompey went into administration. But the players and other clubs got paid in full.

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Coltrane

Coltrane

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Posted

A good £10m of that on faithful woulddiefortheclub twitch face though surely?

Well it wasn't just Redknapp but obviously he was responsible for leveraging a lot of the spending. We had some expensive flops on ludicrous contracts. Utaka was on 40k a week and spent most of the time on the bench or in the reserves as he was complete shite. Defoe, Crouch, Johnson and Diarra were being paid a fortune as well.

Hopefully the fans manage to get together and do something rather than dodgy money-laundering tycoon #49. Fans moan about their team all the time but the thought of not having a club to support massively overshadows a few dodgy results or a relegation.

Absolutely. The Supporter's Trust is trying to put together a proposal to rescue the club but whether they can come up with the funds is another matter entirely.

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JDubYes

JDubYes

Posted
Posted

I'd have Crouch in the squad given the lack of other options up there. I've always rated him for England; he just seems to be one of those players who for some arcane reason suits playing at international level.

Probably not a bad idea, to be honest. He may often look like nothing special whilst playing domestically, but his game seems to be one that non-English defences struggle with, or at least that's certainly what his exploits in both internationals and European competition suggest (his goals-to-game ration in domestic competition is worse than one in three, in Internation/European competition it's around a goal every other game).

It sounds a bit simplistic, and almost patronising, but it seems like defenders/defences elsewhere just aren't accustomed to that level of aerial bombardment in the same the way that English (and English-based) defenders have become. If you look (from a slightly blinkered English perspective) at a surprising percentage of Italian, Spanish, etc defenders in comparison to, say, David Wheater, Ryan Shawcross, Zat Knight, and even John Terry, they're normally not quite so big, and are more adept at dealing with a balanced attack, winning/intercepting the ball on the ground and then distributing rather than getting their head to balls being swung into the box and getting them clear asap, or with a team that plays in the way Stoke do (not a critiscism, incidentally - I always had a sneaking suspicion they'd make a decent go of Europe this year if they felt so inclined, as they're a different breed to what most teams in European competition are used to),

Again, it's probably an over-simplification, but I often think that might be why players like Luca Toni or even John Carew are often overlooked and then suddenly go through spells where they thrive in leagues like Serie A - their game isn't aesthetically pleasing like a Del Piero or Totti's is, but give them the service and they're hugely effective battering-rams to be used against teams who aren't necessarily so well equipped to deal with the threat they pose. Conversely, that may be why John Terry's been so exposed at times outside of the Premiership, as his strengths aren't played to and his lack of pace is exposed (just as it increasingly is by some of the teams and/or players now plying their trade in the Premiership).

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Fry Crayola

Fry Crayola

Posted
Posted

In other news that has nothing to do with English football (hooray!), there's a load of international games of genuine consequence being played today.

In Asia, it's the final round of games in the current stage of World Cup qualification. Whilst many are dead rubbers between sides already fully aware of their fate, questions are still unanswered. South Korea host Kuwait knowing a draw will see them through, but a Kuwaiti win throws everything into the balance - if Lebanon were to beat the UAE (plausible, given the latter have yet to pick up a point) then the Koreans would be out before anyone in Europe even tries. Kind of unthinkable. Anyway, it's 0-0 after 15 minutes in both games, so no need for fear yet.

One team that's already crashed out is Saudi Arabia. Last time around they mucked up in the Asian playoffs (to determine who gets to play New Zealand). Today they lost 4-2 to Australia while Oman leapfrogged them with a 2-0 win over Thailand. Meanwhile, North Korea have retained the Unofficial Football World Championship by drawing 1-1 with Tajikistan. They won't be at the World Cup though, they went out a few games ago.

And in Africa, Cameroon and Nigeria are getting their African Cup of Nations 2013 campaign underway. As the CAF have decided to switch to odd years, this year is a straight knockout qualification consisting of three rounds. The first, to cut off the chaff, took place during the 2012 tournament and saw Sao Tomé & Principe knock out Lesotho, while the Seychelles learned about the two sweetest words in the English language when Swaziland decided not to bother. The second features all the non-qualifiers bar hosts South Africa, and the third sees the 16 teams who were there last month play against the rest.

Which makes it quite interesting, as there's every chance some of the big boys can go out again before the tournament even begins.

Oh, and UAE have taken the lead, but Lebanon swiftly equalised. EXCITING!

BE EXCITED! IT'S ACTUAL FOOTBALL!

3
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El Pibe

El Pibe

Posted
Posted

We should be well out of it by now but we keep drawing games and we're still down there. There's quite a lot of Exeter (given your forums) that really want Argyle to be out of the league but I'm not sure why. A lot of our proper fans donated money to Exeter City when they were in dire straits (me included) and we put a lot of cash into the Adam Stansfield charity too. Devon football will be truly in a sad state if the best club in Devon is Exeter (and that's not meant to be rude).

Hereford missed a penalty in the last minute - it should have been 5-5.

I wouldn't want you guys to go out of business, not at all, but I would like to see you spend a few years in non-league. We've done it, Torquay have done it, and so now it's your turn! ;)

It's not so bad, either. I have some fond memories of going away to some great little grounds and interesting places.

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Plissken

Plissken

Posted
Posted

This reminds me. An MP has put forward this which says clubs must state who owns them and also proposes the end of the football creditors rule, which sees other football clubs paid in full when a club goes into administration, even if everyone else then gets hardly anything. Remember St John's Ambulance, the scouts and a school were some of the people not paid in full when Pompey went into administration. But the players and other clubs got paid in full.

The thing about the football creditors rule is that if it is removed, it could easily be abused by the clubs as well. Remember that transfers are paid by instalments - if a club doesn't pay its debts to other clubs and goes into administration, without a football creditors rule the selling club could go under as well. So the club that originally folds could liquidate, get a load of players on the cheap, force a couple of others into administration and pick their players up on the cheap too. Even more money would go into player wages and the transfer market between clubs could become a thing of the past. (There would be no stability, no guarantees of payment - clubs would demand payment, in full, upfront - and only the biggest clubs would be willing to write a cheque for £35m.)

I'm not saying it is a bad thing that it is removed. At the moment the abuse of the rule is outside the game, largely at the expense of HMRC. Abolishing it means there would be a lot of scope for abuse within the game instead.

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Dudley

Dudley

Posted
Posted

Also it's all very well to say it's bad the players get paid but you have to realise that they're legally employees. If your company goes under you'd want some hope as a staff member that you'd get paid. I don't think players have any more rights than any other employee, it's just higher sums of money and you really don't want to risk it being easier to fuck over average employees when a company goes under.

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Sirloin

Sirloin

Posted
Posted

In other news that has nothing to do with English football (hooray!), there's a load of international games of genuine consequence being played today.

In Asia, it's the final round of games in the current stage of World Cup qualification. Whilst many are dead rubbers between sides already fully aware of their fate, questions are still unanswered. South Korea host Kuwait knowing a draw will see them through, but a Kuwaiti win throws everything into the balance - if Lebanon were to beat the UAE (plausible, given the latter have yet to pick up a point) then the Koreans would be out before anyone in Europe even tries. Kind of unthinkable. Anyway, it's 0-0 after 15 minutes in both games, so no need for fear yet.

One team that's already crashed out is Saudi Arabia. Last time around they mucked up in the Asian playoffs (to determine who gets to play New Zealand). Today they lost 4-2 to Australia while Oman leapfrogged them with a 2-0 win over Thailand. Meanwhile, North Korea have retained the Unofficial Football World Championship by drawing 1-1 with Tajikistan. They won't be at the World Cup though, they went out a few games ago.

And in Africa, Cameroon and Nigeria are getting their African Cup of Nations 2013 campaign underway. As the CAF have decided to switch to odd years, this year is a straight knockout qualification consisting of three rounds. The first, to cut off the chaff, took place during the 2012 tournament and saw Sao Tomé & Principe knock out Lesotho, while the Seychelles learned about the two sweetest words in the English language when Swaziland decided not to bother. The second features all the non-qualifiers bar hosts South Africa, and the third sees the 16 teams who were there last month play against the rest.

Which makes it quite interesting, as there's every chance some of the big boys can go out again before the tournament even begins.

Oh, and UAE have taken the lead, but Lebanon swiftly equalised. EXCITING!

BE EXCITED! IT'S ACTUAL FOOTBALL!

If Bahrain win 9-0 they have a chance of going through today, it's 4-0 just after half time and the Indonesian keeper has been sent off.

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phresh

phresh

Posted
Posted

The thing about the football creditors rule is that if it is removed, it could easily be abused by the clubs as well. Remember that transfers are paid by instalments - if a club doesn't pay its debts to other clubs and goes into administration, without a football creditors rule the selling club could go under as well. So the club that originally folds could liquidate, get a load of players on the cheap, force a couple of others into administration and pick their players up on the cheap too. Even more money would go into player wages and the transfer market between clubs could become a thing of the past. (There would be no stability, no guarantees of payment - clubs would demand payment, in full, upfront - and only the biggest clubs would be willing to write a cheque for £35m.)

I'm not saying it is a bad thing that it is removed. At the moment the abuse of the rule is outside the game, largely at the expense of HMRC. Abolishing it means there would be a lot of scope for abuse within the game instead.

All the problems you list would basically be solved by the PL etc. ensuring that clubs are run by sensible owners in a sensible manner. Win-Win in my opinion. It would force clubs not to accept enormous transfers from badly run clubs on the basis they are covered (isn't that what we are complaining about the banks doing?) and it might force players to reconsider exorbitant wage demands if they might end up not getting paid.

After all, I don't think any of the clubs that have gone into administartion in recent years have done so through sheer bad luck, they've been run badly and dodged taxes through any means possible.

It's not like you have to be a world leading investigative journalist to look at a clubs finances either.

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Baz

Baz

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Posted

Just hit me that the 4-1 versus the Dutch was over fifteen years ago... time flies by.

Also who here really gives a shit who the England captain is? The amount of discussion about it on the internet is embarrassing.

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Liamness

Liamness

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Posted

I think Hart would've been a good one to go for, he's obviously going to be around for a very long time, and it would stop this nonsense from happening every couple of months. He doesn't seem the type to let pressure get to him either, I don't think he'd go about his job any differently. I think Parker will be a bit like Gerrard with the armband; he will just play with even more urgency than usual. Not sure that's really what we need from him though, I'd rather he was more measured.

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Smoothy

Smoothy

Posted
Posted

Just hit me that the 4-1 versus the Dutch was over fifteen years ago... time flies by.

Yeah! Such a long time ago, although it doesn't seem like it. Shearer, Sheringham, Pearce, Seaman, Gazza... the famous Far East trip that the press crucified England for before, during and after... the famous "Dentist Chair" incident and the press saying that England were shite and we were unfocused and going to lose badly... we got to the semis! In fact, I think England since have tended to look too nervous and afraid of letting go during tournaments, maybe we need to get them to go out and get pissed and smash up the place in order to bond properly and subsequently have a stonking tournament! ;)
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Rev

Rev

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Posted

Yeah! Such a long time ago, although it doesn't seem like it. Shearer, Sheringham, Pearce, Seaman, Gazza... the famous Far East trip that the press crucified England for before, during and after... the famous "Dentist Chair" incident and the press saying that England were shite and we were unfocused and going to lose badly... we got to the semis! In fact, I think England since have tended to look too nervous and afraid of letting go during tournaments, maybe we need to get them to go out and get pissed and smash up the place in order to bond properly and subsequently have a stonking tournament! ;)

I know you're not being entirely serious, but I can't really see how doing that would be much worse than the sit-in-silence-in-a-monastery that Capello was aiming for. There has to be a happy medium there somewhere.

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JamesTW

JamesTW

Posted
Posted

Yeah! Such a long time ago, although it doesn't seem like it. Shearer, Sheringham, Pearce, Seaman, Gazza... the famous Far East trip that the press crucified England for before, during and after... the famous "Dentist Chair" incident and the press saying that England were shite and we were unfocused and going to lose badly... we got to the semis! In fact, I think England since have tended to look too nervous and afraid of letting go during tournaments, maybe we need to get them to go out and get pissed and smash up the place in order to bond properly and subsequently have a stonking tournament! ;)

They weren't even that good apart from 1 game, kinda like Italia 90, they were fucking atrocious against Ireland & Belgium and just ok in every game apart from W Germany

The best I've seen England play was Euro 04

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