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Football Thread 2011/2012

SMD

By SMD
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Daley

Daley

Posted
Posted

Just on the subject on win percentage. Should we really look at that in much detail considering most of those wins we're against lesser teams during qualifying. When it came to the big challenge of the WC he didn't seem to have a clue.

I dunno. Super Schteve McClaren can testify that qualifying for major international tournaments is not to be dismissed as a foregone conclusion.

It will definitely be 'arry. Would have been in the summer (now he is all innocent and shit) so not sure how they will pull it off now but there's only a couple of warm up friendlies before the tournament then he can jump straight in as he knows all the players. Going by his current set up he will try to hire every Englishman who has ever played the game in his backroom staff so maybe they can sort the friendlies out. I have lost count of the amount of coaches he currently uses.

Also as someone who really hates international football let me just be the first to say:

lol

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Jamin

Jamin

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Get Kevin Keegan in. Would love to see us either win or lose 6-5 every game. Infinitely more entertaining that us scraping tedious 1-0 wins against Craposlavia until we're inevitably put out of our misery in the knockouts by a decent side.

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SharkEnergy

SharkEnergy

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Posted

Depending on your views on foreign managers the good, or perhaps bad, news is that no overseas manager will touch this job with a barge-pole now.

Sven, Fabio, Phil Scolari (who didn't even take the job!) all hounded to fuck by the press. It's amazing how these things aways go the same way. Everyone in the press will now insist 'Arry is the only man for the job and then they'll all claim, when it inevitably ends in Englands abject failure to perform, that they had their reservations when he was appointed.

I used to love watching/supporting England, it's like a bad episode of Crossroads nowadays.

You're right. The media probably only want Harry in so that they can unleash some "new evidence" towards his tax dodging just 2 weeks prior to the finals.

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the_debaser

the_debaser

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"They really insulted me and damaged my authority. What really hit me and forced me to take this decision was the fact the much-vaunted Anglo-Saxon sense of justice, as they are the first to claim that everyone is innocent until proven guilty. In Terry's case, they gravely offended me and damaged my authority at the head of the England side, effectively creating a problem for the squad. I have never tolerated certain crossing of lines, so it was easy for me to spot it and take my decision to leave."

He's bang on IMO.

Absolutely.

Mike Bassets got to get the job now, surely.

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SharkEnergy

SharkEnergy

Posted
Posted

Ratings of former managers

Bobby Robson GOOD (hounded by media)

Graham Taylor BAD (hounded by media)

Terry Venables GOOD (but didn't have to qualify and all home teams do well)

Glenn Hoddle GOOD (hounded by media)

Kevin Keegan BAD

Sven Goran Erikson GOOD (Don't care what anyone else thinks - just sadly wanted us to sit back with a flimsy lead) (hounded by media)

Steve McClaren BAD (hounded by media)

Fabio Capello GOOD (Don't care what anyone else thinks - he made some poor decisions at the WC but noone is immune from mistakes) (hounded by media)

They either need to stick in a big name Englishman just for the Finals (Beckham, Pearce - works for other nations!) or Redknapp in a part time role, turning full time after the Euros.

I'm not against a foreign manager (im one of the few that rates the 2 we've had) but I am a bit of an old romantic and like an all English line up.

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monobrow

monobrow

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Posted

Jose's only been successful without stacks of cash at Porto - and they usually win the league or come very close in Portugal every year and he'd be too much for the FA to handle - he's another Brian Clough character. How would the FA react if he tried to slap another manager on the touchline or walked out of a stadium flicking Vs at the opposition fans?

An international coach/manager cannot buy anyone. They need to be motivational and liked by the squad and I think Harry Redknapp has always brought the best out of players he's managed - particularly at West Ham when he didn't have an amazing squad. He might not be popular on this thread but he'd be very popular with the squad as he comes from their World, everyone knows him and he's well liked within the football community. He's a similar sort of bloke to Terry Venables (in more dodgy ways than one) and he was a really good England manager.

Being an international manager isn't quite the same as being given a set of players and having to get on with it. The manager gets to CHOOSE their squad from the players that are available. Mourinho may well have very different ideas about which players will make a good team than Capello, Redknapp or anybody else - he isn't restricted to using the same 23. There's no rule, for example, that 50% of the first team need to be playing Champions League football.

This fixation people seem to have with Mourinho being a cheque-book manager isn't neccessarily the whole truth. I think England have some technically gifted - just not extravagantly gifted - footballers, but if they simply aren't good enough or we can't outplay the opposition then perhaps we should be more pragmatic to get results. Something you can say about Mourinho's teams is that they're always set up to be hard to beat. Tactically, Mourinho is miles ahead of Redknapp.

If international football was just a matter of motivation, then why wasn't Kevin Keegan a success?

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SMD

SMD

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English players are tactically limited. Look at United, they have the one player you could arguably call a cultured midfielder and they still had to bring Scholes out of retirement to give them guile in the middle.

Look at Spain, they have Xavi, Iniesta, Alonso and Busquets who all dictate the tempo in their own manner. Brazil have Lucas as the 'steering wheel' and playmakers high up the pitch. Germany have Schweinsteiger pulling the strings, with a really clever bunch of players like Gotze, Ozil and Kroos. Italy are Italy, they've always got ball players - some might argue too many.

Who have England got? Carrick and Cuddlestone? Lampard and Gerrard can only play at one speed, Parker doesn't fill that role and Barry...ha. Wilshere might get there in the future but even if he was fully fit, he wouldn't be the one to rely on at Euro 2012. Not to mention the problems up front.

The only saving grace for England is that they've got France in the group stages. Sweden will most likely qualify, especially if Ibrahimovic doesn't pick a fight with any of his team mates before the tournament starts. France have it in them either to win the group or finish bottom. If France turn up, it's another early exit before the party's even started properly.

Yet somehow it's Capello's fault and another manager will motivate the tactical and technical flaws out of the England squad.

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Frosty

Frosty

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Posted

Redknapp isn't the schmuck people make him out to be. Or that he makes himself out to be. Telling Rafa Van der Vaart to play left or right and to run around a bit and have fun isn't Redknapp being tactically naive. Its not pressuring his players with things they don't need to know.

He knows his players strengths and weaknesses, he knows where they play well and he knows when to take them off and try something else. You see coaches sit around with checklists and notepads and headsets and their players haven't a clue what they're on about. Most footballers aren't particularly bright you see.

Incidentally I've always believed Martin O'Neill should be England manager. I remember someone interviewed him about it once and asked if he thought he'd have done a good job. He said "Yes".

He'd get them playing wide and fast and swinging in crosses like there's no tomorrow. It would be epic.

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Plissken

Plissken

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Posted

Being an international manager isn't quite the same as being given a set of players and having to get on with it. The manager gets to CHOOSE their squad from the players that are available. Mourinho may well have very different ideas about which players will make a good team than Capello, Redknapp or anybody else - he isn't restricted to using the same 23. There's no rule, for example, that 50% of the first team need to be playing Champions League football.

Theoretically there isn't. However, the England team is a money spinner for the FA and that relies on having recognisable faces on billboards wearing England kit. That is why Beckham was indulged so much, and the likes of Terry, Lampard, Gerrard, Rooney, Ferdinand jostle so much. They get money for the endorsements, the FA brings in cash and everyone is a winner, except the team obviously. Love him or hate him, Terry will sell far more England shirts than Leighton Baines or Ashley Young.

You can imagine that the FA and the sponsors will be working on a Euro 2012 campaign right now and deciding who the faces of it should be. And they are going to look pretty stupid if those faces aren't on the plane.

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Pants McSkill

Pants McSkill

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Well I'm gutted. Capello has breezed through two qualifying campaigns and has the best win percentage of any England manager. We were woeful in the World Cup, but he's made sweeping changes to both the personnel and the style of play since then.

I would loved to have seen him take charge this Summer. We aren't going to win - we are comfortably behind Spain, Holland, Germany and probably Italy in terms of quality and there's a good few more it would not be shameful to lose to. But he's our best chance of achieving anything.

No other manager will have us playing well inside of four months with only a handful of friendlies, regardless of nationality. And knowing that, would Harry even take it? If we bomb out in the group stages, he'll be vilified in the press and he'll never win them back. So it looks to me like the FA have fucked up both the outgoing and incoming England Manager. Well fucking done.

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monobrow

monobrow

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Theoretically there isn't. However, the England team is a money spinner for the FA and that relies on having recognisable faces on billboards wearing England kit. That is why Beckham was indulged so much, and the likes of Terry, Lampard, Gerrard, Rooney, Ferdinand jostle so much. They get money for the endorsements, the FA brings in cash and everyone is a winner, except the team obviously. Love him or hate him, Terry will sell far more England shirts than Leighton Baines or Ashley Young.

You can imagine that the FA and the sponsors will be working on a Euro 2012 campaign right now and deciding who the faces of it should be. And they are going to look pretty stupid if those faces aren't on the plane.

I know you're right, but the romantic in me thinks the sponsors should be queuing-up for squeaky clean newcomers, rather than people like John Terry :(

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SaintM

SaintM

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Posted

Well I'm gutted. Capello has breezed through two qualifying campaigns and has the best win percentage of any England manager. We were woeful in the World Cup, but he's made sweeping changes to both the personnel and the style of play since then.

I would loved to have seen him take charge this Summer. We aren't going to win - we are comfortably behind Spain, Holland, Germany and probably Italy in terms of quality and there's a good few more it would not be shameful to lose to. But he's our best chance of achieving anything.

No other manager will have us playing well inside of four months with only a handful of friendlies, regardless of nationality. And knowing that, would Harry even take it? If we bomb out in the group stages, he'll be vilified in the press and he'll never win them back. So it looks to me like the FA have fucked up both the outgoing and incoming England Manager. Well fucking done.

On the contrary, I think redknapp is in a win win position.
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lolly

lolly

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Posted

Well I'm gutted. Capello has breezed through two qualifying campaigns and has the best win percentage of any England manager. We were woeful in the World Cup, but he's made sweeping changes to both the personnel and the style of play since then.

I would loved to have seen him take charge this Summer. We aren't going to win - we are comfortably behind Spain, Holland, Germany and probably Italy in terms of quality and there's a good few more it would not be shameful to lose to. But he's our best chance of achieving anything.

No other manager will have us playing well inside of four months with only a handful of friendlies, regardless of nationality. And knowing that, would Harry even take it? If we bomb out in the group stages, he'll be vilified in the press and he'll never win them back. So it looks to me like the FA have fucked up both the outgoing and incoming England Manager. Well fucking done.

Serious questions,will they really go at him considering he's only had four months or will they lay the blame at Capello's doorstep?

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gizmo1990

gizmo1990

Posted
Posted

Ratings of former managers

Bobby Robson GOOD (hounded by media)

Graham Taylor BAD (hounded by media)

Terry Venables GOOD (but didn't have to qualify and all home teams do well)

Glenn Hoddle GOOD (hounded by media)

Kevin Keegan BAD

Sven Goran Erikson GOOD (Don't care what anyone else thinks - just sadly wanted us to sit back with a flimsy lead) (hounded by media)

Steve McClaren BAD (hounded by media)

Fabio Capello GOOD (Don't care what anyone else thinks - he made some poor decisions at the WC but noone is immune from mistakes) (hounded by media)

They either need to stick in a big name Englishman just for the Finals (Beckham, Pearce - works for other nations!) or Redknapp in a part time role, turning full time after the Euros.

I'm not against a foreign manager (im one of the few that rates the 2 we've had) but I am a bit of an old romantic and like an all English line up.

This post is bang on, even all the manager ratings.

Imo Glenn Hoddle was probably the best manager we've had in the last 20 years and our fucking press (and the public!) hounded him out of the job. Morons.

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Pants McSkill

Pants McSkill

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Serious questions,will they really go at him considering he's only had four months or will they lay the blame at Capello's doorstep?

That's a good point. I imagine if we go out in the group phase he'll be lynched. Otherwise, yeah I can see them laying the blame at Capello's door.

In other news, go Zambia! I'll be supporting Ivory Coast (due to my affiliations in the football folder) but I won't be too unhappy if they win.

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